Arrogant/cocky first officers

[Skyward]

I've flown with some low time FO's in the past and have never had to take the controls. You're not a CFI anymore this is an airline and the pilot sitting next to you isn't doing touch and goes, so try to work together. If you're taking the controls from your FO I think you're the one with the problem.

 

[flx757]

If you're taking the controls from your FO I think you're the one with the problem.

I think I'd have to agree with that assessment.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

If you have to keep reminding everyone you're the captain you probably aren't.

 

[upncoming]

Boy isn't that the truth. Back in February, I flew with this captain who used phrases like "this is my airplane" and "this is my cockpit". Wow, does THAT ever promote the crew concept. He'd just upgraded and I think his hat was now way toooo small. Because he was former military, he'd yell whenever something happened that he didn't like or prefer to be done. 'Called it "had to get on to you about that" later in the trip with a wry smile and a giggle. He'd also jump to conclusions that were startingly amazingly unbelievable. Like the time my right foot slipped off of the brake and we started towards a high speed, "I have the flight controls!! I'll decide when we get off of the runway, that's not your job!" I wanted to meet him in a dark alley when he couldn't hide behind that 4th stripe. 'Then again, I just pitied him. After talking with other FO's who flew with him later, they all said the same thing "he has issues".

In short, I agree with other posters who said that you should learn from every captain. With this guy (idiot), I learned a ton about what NOT TO DO when I become captain. When I'm there, I will respect my FO and listen to what he/she has to offer. I won't tell them "don't touch the A/C without checking with me first", that's for certain.

 

[canadflyau]

I am confused

I have seen low-time FOs who are very confident in their knowledge and skills, and try at all times to offer suggestions or opinions on courses of action.

profile says:
Ratings: CPL ASEL/AMEL INST CFI CFII MEI

Current Position: Unemployed, golfing a lot

Total Time: 370
-----------------------------------------------
I assume your profile is needing updating or something... I am pretty confused, but I see you post a lot.. Were you in another capacity at an airline at some point?

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but I was confused.. (I didn't see BE1900 so I don't think you Gulfstreamed)

Just curious on my part...

 

[CRJ puppy]

Hhhmmm,

I'm sorry. I must not understand what the "crew concept" is. I must completely misunderstand the concept. Lordy, that might make me one of those dreaded, evil FO's with the small pecker and big head...

Guess briefing where you'll exit the runway is not part of your approach brief protocol.

I guess there's just many "tools" in the box today!

 

[PilotRon]

Interesting Thread.

I was just in a conversation yesterday with a fellow pilot about this same situation in reverse.

We called it. "Fearfull flyers".

There are alot of Pilots out there that can fly the aircraft just fine, but they are still fearful. These are guys/gals that when they are unsure of a situation, take control of the aircraft. It is simply due to a lack of solid skills that cause this. I think that CFI's reading this will understand what I am talking about.

Captains that trust their own abilities, but are still a bit unsure will be the first to jump on the controls when the least little thing goes different than they had planned.

Love to hear anyone else's view on this. Anyone else seen this before?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I had an F/O a few months ago who told me one of those "I am the captain, this is my airplane and you will do exactly what I say" stories. I won't elaborate due to length here, but I told him my 'opinion' was that the next time a situation comes up with one of those type of individuals, he should gather his things, not say a word, get off the airplane and go tell the cp that there is a plane out there who needs a different F/O and why. It is amazing there are STILL those kind of jerks out there today.
It is those kind of captains who really make this job for new people or even very experienced F/O's miserable. In all the years of CRM now, I think it is a danger to all that those kind are still flying.

 

[Anaconda]

Because he was former military, he'd yell whenever something happened that he didn't like or prefer to be done.

BECAUSE he was former military, he would yell?

what does being in the military have to do with it?

while this guy didn't sound very enjoyable to fly with, don't stereotype all miltary guys because of this one experience.

i've flown with all types and i can assure you they can all be a-holes and screamer types. being in the military doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[Thunderchief]

Geting off the subject sorry...

My question is for MetroSheriff and Trainer Jet.

No offense, BUT

Do you guys ever fly?

With that number of posts I don't know how its possible unless your wireless laptop works at FL310?

All in good fun-
-TC

 

[upncoming]

CRJPup-

Your post confused me. I was the FO in the scenario, it was the CAPTAIN who had the big head due to his recent upgrade, most likely. And yes, when someone uses the phrases "this is my airplane"/"this is my cockpit", then absolutely they have a CLEAR misunderstanding or blatent disregard for the crew concept. Don't know about the exiting the runway brief thing, 'never seen a captain do that until on the rollout, "we'll get off at X-ray" ... I maintain centerline as we slow while in reverse ... "okay I have the flight controls" ... "you have the flight controls" ... and we exit. That's how it's always been for me...

And Anaconda, don't be so quick to jump on me regarding the military thing. Yes, there are a few ex-military types who are a joy to fly with, I'll give you that. However, my experience has been the opposite, for the most part. In this particular case, when a guy says things like "you wouldn't make it in the <brand of service>" and "you're on notice, I only wish we were in the service" I gotta feel that his attitude and belligerence were/are related to his military experience.

Thanks.

Hhhmmm,

I'm sorry. I must not understand what the "crew concept" is. I must completely misunderstand the concept. Lordy, that might make me one of those dreaded, evil FO's with the small pecker and big head...

Guess briefing where you'll exit the runway is not part of your approach brief protocol.

I guess there's just many "tools" in the box today!

 

[General Lee]

Everybody is "new" when they get to a new airline. I don't care if you flew the CRJ for 10,000 at a regional---the first day flying for Southwest, jetblue, etc will be a bad one. It takes a while to get use to the surroundings, and hopefully you have an understanding Capt that has been there himself or herself. It might take a month, but everyone will either get used to it or leave. Cocky FO's who call for checklists or who think they are the next Tom Cruise with the flight attendants will ususally screw up and get humbled quick. If not, they are just laughed at.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FL000]

This is a demonstration of my briefing to the FO. You'll find that it develops trust and teamwork:

briefing demo

 

[ACE]

I find that crm is the most difficult part of being a Captain. I personally have two different briefings to my FO's. You can tell right from the get go what type of FO you are going to have. You either have one that knows his postion or one that thinks they are entitiled to your postion as well. Have a briefing prepared for both kinds of FO's. By this I mean a brieing that establishes your authority when you are going to fly with an arrogant FO. It has always worked for me because then I scare them into reality. I myself favor flying with female FO's . Females are always easy to get along with and don't seem to have anything to prove. We need more of them. I guess they are just a nice offset.

 

[chperplt]

FL000

That was messed up. Some people are wacked!!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I find that crm is the most difficult part of being a Captain.<snipped> It has always worked for me because then I scare them into reality.

Ace,
I'm not surprised you find CRM so difficult. LOL

 

[hmmm]

I second that ACE You do seem to have a head problem with CRM.... This subject should be renamed arrogant cocky insecure with their insecurities captains.

 

[cornbread]

god forbid...

God forbid if some of you on this thread/board ever ask a question rather than just attack everthing you see here. You remind me of the the insecure types that just go judgmental to cover your own insecure hide. Sad. Jeez, the guy was just asking for perspective.

(to those few) Try this. Assume the thread starter is venting or asking for constructive input. Then pause. That should do the trick. Reminds me of a bunch of old hens.

As to the original query, I aggree w/ an earlier poster. Sit back and let him humble himself because with that attitude, he most definately will.

 

[hmmm]

that goes for both sides of the thrust levers.... And I myself to be redundant am very secure with my own insecurities..... hehehe

Best brief.... on CRM. We're just a couple of FO's they let loose in a cockpit. The aircraft just reuires on of us to have a type. Seniority most of the time dictates that.


If a Captain is so full of himself lets just see how strong he feels about his competence judged by how far he lets an FO go.


hehehe or hahaha

 

[General Lee]

Cocky Captains are the same type of guys/girls that want to be line checkairman. What was that famous old saying? Never let a guy who wants to be a line check airman be one. Always find the guy/girl that gets along with everybody, and then ask them to be the check airman. People that start a brief with an arrogant tone have something to hide, usually bad piloting skills or major insecurities. Now at the same time, I don't want a lax Captain that is lazy. The best Captains at Delta that I have flown with are on top of their game, on top of the situation (with maintence items etc.) and nice to everyone, including the fuelers. But, every once and a while you get thrown in with a Napolean type who has something to prove. FO's can be dealt with quickly, but the Captains can be more of a problem. I just heard a story about an "in command" class given to new Captains, and the new Captain (probably on Delta Express and 30 years old) asked the moderator, "If I am so important to Delta Airlines, then why wasn't I given a first class ticket to come up here to ATL?" That is scary. I bet he is back in the FO seat now after the downsizing.

Bye Bye--General Lee