Arrogant/cocky first officers

[YoYoJet]

Any Captains besides me having experienced big mouth-cocky-low time first officers who think they are God's gift in the cockpit? If you have then how did you handle them?

 

[T-Gates]

Arrogant/cocky Captains

Any First Officers besides me having experienced big mouth-cocky-high time Captains who think they are God's gift in the cockpit? If you have then how did you handle them?

It goes both ways pal.....

--03M

 

[trainerjet]

Flame Bait..........Ignore.

Besides, if you have to ask this question, what the f*ck are you doing being Captain?

 

[Rottweiller]

Re: Arrogant/cocky Captains

Any First Officers besides me having experienced big mouth-cocky-high time Captains who think they are God's gift in the cockpit? If you have then how did you handle them?

It goes both ways pal.....

--03M

ROTFLMAO Good reply.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Yeah, you probably could have re-phrased that and said pilots instead of FO's. What kind of stuff are they doing?

 

[SSDD]

First of all, don't take it personally. Its inexperience. I make gentle suggestions, but I don't fly the airplane for them. Without allowing them to violate a reg or get you violated, let them go. Soon enough they get themselves into a situation, and then you say, "I've got the airplane," then you explain why you made the suggestions in the first place. For all but the biggest jerks, that will show them that you saw the situation developing way before they ever had a clue.

You have to know your own ability and the capabilities of the airplane. Most guys don't require these extreme measures, but they really work with the real cocky jerks.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Taking the airplane

I can honestly say I have never had an airplane taken from me since private. So, I find it very hard to believe that Capt.s have to take the airplane from an FO at an airline. That amazes me. How did they get through training. Plz give examples of what these guys are doing. Who the he11 is hiring these people?

 

[YoYoJet]

Well, by looking at how many times you have posted on this site it's obvious you have nothing better to do. I just asked a simple question to fellow captains. Sorry that you spend your precious time off from your ego boosting airline job responding to a honest question like angry little boys.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

When you're a CA, you get to fly with your favorite A**hole everyday.......

 

[YoYoJet]

To clarify: My response above is directed at the first two boys who responded to my first initial posting.

And it's not about taking the airplane away from anyone but comments they make.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Well, by looking at how many times you have posted on this site it's obvious you have nothing better to do. I just asked a simple question to fellow captains. Sorry that you spend your precious time off from your ego boosting airline job responding to a honest question like angry little boys.

And we can tell by your idiotic question and forthright (tic) profile how incredibly mature you are. If you insist on signing on to act like a horse's ass, expect the retorts.

If you don't know how to deal with a weak (for whatever reason) crew member, perhaps you should reevaluate your leadership skills and whether or not you have the requisite people skills and character to call yourself a "Captain".

Just a thought.

 

[trainerjet]

What do you expect with a question like that?

But, it's like I said before, if you have to ask, then you have no business being Captain.

Ego boosting airline job? That's pretty funny. Apparently, more than your ego needs boostiing. How about one of those chairs like the give the little kids at the barber shop? Maybe it'll help you sit up straight and tall so those inexperienced FOs you're having so much trouble with with give you the respect you obviously crave, but just as obviously don't get. Gee....I wonder why??

You have much to learn, grasshopper.

 

[C150Heavy]

Some of you guys are too harsh on this Captain. I would slap the first office and tell him to go stand in the back of the airplane. Or on second thought, I would send him to the dreaded Time Out. That would teach him a lesson.

 

[chperplt]

So, I find it very hard to believe that Capt.s have to take the airplane from an FO at an airline.

It's a sad fact, but a true fact. I can no longer count on my hands and feet the number of times I've had to take the controls from an FO. Bear in mind that I was an Army helicopter pilot and a CFI, so it takes a lot to get the pucker factor going.

I've taken the controls from an FO for forgetting simple things... like bringing the power back up when leveling from a decent. I generally let it get real slow before I do anything. Once I had to take it during a missed approach when the FO stopped his climb at 500 feet and starting to sink. I've had to take it countless number of times during strong cross wind landings. No wind correction, the wrong correction, or landing sideways on a contaminated runway.

The majority of pilots I fly with are excellent. Some bad apples do certainly get through the training process and make it to the line. There is only so much mentoring and instructing that you can do.

 

[PCL_128]

Originally posted by chperplt I've taken the controls from an FO for forgetting simple things... like bringing the power back up when leveling from a decent. I generally let it get real slow before I do anything.[/B]

Um, just a thought, but wouldn't it have been easier to just say, "Hey, you might want to add a little power there." Why would you take the controls for something simple like this?

 

[Country Wild]

I have flown with many relatively low time co-pilots and some of them guys sure could fly the plane, and the ones that couldn't were were so far ahead mentally you couldn't tell. If any First Officer offers some insight or a recommendation, He probably see something or senses something I don't. Just because some fed made the mistake of passing you on your type ride, and company let you slip by on your IOE doesn't make you a Captian, it makes you the PIC. The true sense of a Captian is something you earn by respect amongst your peers. All you young "Captians" I hope for your sake and everyone else on that plane you listen to your FO.

CW

 

[MetroSheriff]

Bear in mind that I was an Army helicopter pilot and a CFI, so it takes a lot to get the pucker factor going.

Based on the rest of your post, I reckon that you are using "a lot" as a very subjective term.

 

[chperplt]

"a lot" as a very subjective term

Take it any way you want.. I don't scare easily is the point.

 

[chperplt]

Um, just a thought, but wouldn't it have been easier to just say, "Hey, you might want to add a little power there." Why would you take the controls for something simple like this?

Thanks for the advice Mr. PFT and proud of it. Maybe I did that from 220kias all the way down to the low 100s..

 

[DDpaysoff]

You know that same guy/gal that forgot to add power at level-off will upgrade as soon as their number is called. Contrary to popular belief "captain class" does not rid them of these habits or lack of focus, let alone stick. I think you can still be a good captain w/out stick. God knows, there is enough of them. People should learn how to be a good pilot before they get PAID to fly. They should learn how to be a good captain, by learning from every capt they have flown with. The learning curve does not stop, even after you master the airplane, book, etc. As for cocky Fo's, I have heard of a lot of them at my company coming from other airlines and trying to do it "their way". I came from another airline and if they were good I would not have dumped them. FO's should do whatever they can to get the trip over as safely as possible, if you don't have fun so be it, this is a job sometimes. If a captain doesn't like the way you do something he/she is probably the same jerk that let the shaker go off in a climb or forgot to add power after a leveloff. Just do it their way (safety permitting), and learn how not to be. I am a very sharp FO, it would be very hard to find a captain that thinks otherwise, but somebody probably does, you can't make everybody happy. If they don't like the way I do it, I will try it thier way and listen to the radio the whole trip. Confidence and cockiness are totally different. Don't be cocky, just bite your tongue and get the trip over with. As for the captain america who, we have all probably flown with, you know the one. Yeah, the one that forgets all CRM and is a one man/woman show. That is what sick time is for. Sorry about the soapbox.

 

[Skyward]

I've flown with some low time FO's in the past and have never had to take the controls. You're not a CFI anymore this is an airline and the pilot sitting next to you isn't doing touch and goes, so try to work together. If you're taking the controls from your FO I think you're the one with the problem.

 

[flx757]

If you're taking the controls from your FO I think you're the one with the problem.

I think I'd have to agree with that assessment.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

If you have to keep reminding everyone you're the captain you probably aren't.

 

[upncoming]

Boy isn't that the truth. Back in February, I flew with this captain who used phrases like "this is my airplane" and "this is my cockpit". Wow, does THAT ever promote the crew concept. He'd just upgraded and I think his hat was now way toooo small. Because he was former military, he'd yell whenever something happened that he didn't like or prefer to be done. 'Called it "had to get on to you about that" later in the trip with a wry smile and a giggle. He'd also jump to conclusions that were startingly amazingly unbelievable. Like the time my right foot slipped off of the brake and we started towards a high speed, "I have the flight controls!! I'll decide when we get off of the runway, that's not your job!" I wanted to meet him in a dark alley when he couldn't hide behind that 4th stripe. 'Then again, I just pitied him. After talking with other FO's who flew with him later, they all said the same thing "he has issues".

In short, I agree with other posters who said that you should learn from every captain. With this guy (idiot), I learned a ton about what NOT TO DO when I become captain. When I'm there, I will respect my FO and listen to what he/she has to offer. I won't tell them "don't touch the A/C without checking with me first", that's for certain.

 

[canadflyau]

I am confused

I have seen low-time FOs who are very confident in their knowledge and skills, and try at all times to offer suggestions or opinions on courses of action.

profile says:
Ratings: CPL ASEL/AMEL INST CFI CFII MEI

Current Position: Unemployed, golfing a lot

Total Time: 370
-----------------------------------------------
I assume your profile is needing updating or something... I am pretty confused, but I see you post a lot.. Were you in another capacity at an airline at some point?

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but I was confused.. (I didn't see BE1900 so I don't think you Gulfstreamed)

Just curious on my part...

 

[CRJ puppy]

Hhhmmm,

I'm sorry. I must not understand what the "crew concept" is. I must completely misunderstand the concept. Lordy, that might make me one of those dreaded, evil FO's with the small pecker and big head...

Guess briefing where you'll exit the runway is not part of your approach brief protocol.

I guess there's just many "tools" in the box today!

 

[PilotRon]

Interesting Thread.

I was just in a conversation yesterday with a fellow pilot about this same situation in reverse.

We called it. "Fearfull flyers".

There are alot of Pilots out there that can fly the aircraft just fine, but they are still fearful. These are guys/gals that when they are unsure of a situation, take control of the aircraft. It is simply due to a lack of solid skills that cause this. I think that CFI's reading this will understand what I am talking about.

Captains that trust their own abilities, but are still a bit unsure will be the first to jump on the controls when the least little thing goes different than they had planned.

Love to hear anyone else's view on this. Anyone else seen this before?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I had an F/O a few months ago who told me one of those "I am the captain, this is my airplane and you will do exactly what I say" stories. I won't elaborate due to length here, but I told him my 'opinion' was that the next time a situation comes up with one of those type of individuals, he should gather his things, not say a word, get off the airplane and go tell the cp that there is a plane out there who needs a different F/O and why. It is amazing there are STILL those kind of jerks out there today.
It is those kind of captains who really make this job for new people or even very experienced F/O's miserable. In all the years of CRM now, I think it is a danger to all that those kind are still flying.

 

[Anaconda]

Because he was former military, he'd yell whenever something happened that he didn't like or prefer to be done.

BECAUSE he was former military, he would yell?

what does being in the military have to do with it?

while this guy didn't sound very enjoyable to fly with, don't stereotype all miltary guys because of this one experience.

i've flown with all types and i can assure you they can all be a-holes and screamer types. being in the military doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[Thunderchief]

Geting off the subject sorry...

My question is for MetroSheriff and Trainer Jet.

No offense, BUT

Do you guys ever fly?

With that number of posts I don't know how its possible unless your wireless laptop works at FL310?

All in good fun-
-TC