Arrogant/cocky first officers

[greyhound]

Captains....

Don't forget the rest of the crew, FA's, groung personell, customer service etc....

Respect is earned not by the additional stripe, but how the captain treats all the other people he/she depends on.

Nobody likes people who are arrogant. But personally, I think it is far WORSE when the captain is the cocky one, over the FO. Those captains are a danger in the sky. If they yell, or say stuff like" I know what I am doing", the next time the FO sees something that might compromise safety, she/he might hesitate or think twice about saying something about it, just so the captain doesn't get on his case.

If your the Captain, and you find yourself sitting next to an arrogant FO, you can have the last laugh.

But I feel sorry for the new FO, who's sitting next to a captain who thinks he/she is gods gift to aviation.

 

[B190Captain]

Cocky Captains are the same type of guys/girls that want to be line checkairman. What was that famous old saying? Never let a guy who wants to be a line check airman be one. Always find the guy/girl that gets along with everybody, and then ask them to be the check airman.

YAY!! I am a nice guy!! Thanks. Check Airmanship was dropped on my lap.

Thanks Lee!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Re: Captains....

But I feel sorry for the new FO, who's sitting next to a captain who thinks he/she is gods gift to aviation.

True story:
I was fresh off IOE and got paired for a 4 leg local with a senior captain who for purposes of semi-anonymity we'll call Bud. Incidentally Bud left us for a major a few years ago.

Bud's briefing started something like this:

Bud: How many hours do you have in this airplane?
Me: xx, I just got off IOE last week.
Bud: Well let me tell you something. I consider you more of a liability than an asset.


That really happened. Hindsight is 20/20. What I should have done at that point is excused myself, called scheduling and had myself pulled off the flight. When they asked me why I would have told them "the Captain does not feel comfortable flying with me." and left it at that. I'm 99% sure there would have been no repercussions for me.


General Lee,
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I've flown with many check airmen and naturally had the normal share of line checks. Some of the check airmen I've flown with are exemplary captains. Obviously there may be some out there that are not enjoyable to work with but I haven't run into them. Perhaps our check airmen selection process is more refined than others.

 

[SFR]

I get a laugh out of a captain saying "this is my airplane". HA HA, do the shareholders know about that? Board of directors? Oh, and is if is your plane, do you get a healthy kickback per passenger? BTW, what are you charging the airline per month to use your plane?

Remember folks, the ONLY reason the person is in the left seat is because they are senior enough to hold captain!!!

Who cares anyways!! It all boils down to nailing chicks!!

 

[B190Captain]

I get a laugh out of a captain saying "this is my airplane". HA HA, do the shareholders know about that? Board of directors? Oh, and is if is your plane, do you get a healthy kickback per passenger? BTW, what are you charging the airline per month to use your plane?

Remember folks, the ONLY reason the person is in the left seat is because they are senior enough to hold captain!!!

Who cares anyways!! It all boils down to nailing chicks!!

NO COMMENT.

 

[acaTerry]

SFR,
You just showed why this thread was started........idiot.

It's not that hard to work together and enjoy it. Like it or not, the CA is in charge, kid. A good CA will be able to make that clear without being an a$$. A good FO will show his worth without being an a$$. That's why there's two of us up there. Someone's going to screw up sooner or later.

 

[PROFLYER]

acaTerry- To quote the famous Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up Francis"

Having spent time in both seats, I've seen my fair share of a-holes in either seat. Most of the FO's I fly with that I can't stand will someday be the Captains I use to hate flying with. Although that is the beauty of the left seat, it's a lot easier to deal with an arrogant FO than an arrogant Captain. While it's not easy to deal with an arrogant Captain, I've found the best way is to not accept any of their crap. If you're a competent FO, you can repect the Captain's authority without having to take his/her crap. Do things by the book, and you'll have no problem. If the captain doesn't like that, tell them you'd be more than happy to discuss it with a Chief Pilot.

I agree with SFR, the only reason the guy in the left seat is there is seniority. Some retards have enough seniority to hold left seat, while others don't. Like it or not, every company's got 'em.

 

[canadflyau]

Personally, as soon as I think there may be a personality conflict or overbearingness it is time to find some common ground.. Remember when you interviewed for that precious job.. All you wanted to do is connect with the interviewer, strike a common ground without being overzealous or goofy. I talk about cars, golf, family, politics.. just find your fellow crewmembers buttons. Find out what interests him/her and chat. I don't mean be a motormouth, but connect and start a friendship even with the hardest of people and you won't find yourself dreading flying with them, b/c you won't find yourself only talking/critiquing the flying, and risk finding yourself in a rut with a specific capt or fo. That is what I do.. just be nice.. I prefer turning a cheek, even after I am talked down to, and act like it wasn't said which is easier than building a wall and seeing CRM break down. Maybe it all just boils down to tact. Maybe then the criticism/help (however you want to view it) will be tactful and professional, no kid gloves or yelling required.

 

[trainerjet]

Re: Geting off the subject sorry...

My question is for MetroSheriff and Trainer Jet.

No offense, BUT

Do you guys ever fly?

With that number of posts I don't know how its possible unless your wireless laptop works at FL310?

All in good fun-
-TC

Yep. But as little as possible.

Currently I do turns, day trips (actually night trips), or whatever you want to call it, on Wed, Thur, and Fri nights, off the rest of the week, and home every day.

 

[acaTerry]

acaTerry- To quote the famous Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up Francis" While it's not easy to deal with an arrogant Captain, I've found the best way is to not accept any of their crap.

I am lightened up (I just like to be humorously loudmouthed).
Anyway, I can only agree with you on the grounds that what the CA is doing is ....crap. Too often though, the problem is that the FO is a young hotshot who thinks he's awesome or something. You know the type: 20 or so years old, less than 1000 hours and got a job that he is no way mature or developed enough to handle. He read the interview gouge, put on a good show at the interview, had a good training partner and so got into an airliner. Now he goes around telling everyone that he is in the jet because is was too good to waste on a prop....all that junk. And having a CA coach him is always taken as a personal attack. So they go around saying that this CA is mean, that CA is bossy, etc.
When I was an FO, I found that 90% or more of the "bad" CA's that other FO's warned me about were just fine. The only thing was that they wanted you to know your job and follow the standards. You do your job well and everything turns out fine. You blow everything you do because you are stuck on the thrill of polyester, or act like a hot shot, and you are not going to have a good time. It's almost always that simple. Perhaps if more of the kids getting into airliners ever had to work a real job, with someone over them, they'd accept the CA and FO roles a little less personally and a little more professionally. The fact is, CA is the boss. FO is what keeps the boss from killing everyone. This does not mean that you mouth off when he corrects you for being ref-10, or for sounding like an idiot on the radio. The CA has a job to do and that is to get the FO ready to be a CA. Until you pin on the CA stripes, be a good FO and learn from the CA. Yes, it's all about seniority, but if he was there first, he was there longer. Does the 38 year old SSGT blow off a 26 year old Major? No. Should the FO tell the CA to go to hell, my approach is fine, it's just 8 little knots? No.
You Captains: a good FO is great. Do you think that a newly upgraded CA in a new plane is better than that high time FO? Hell no. He will likely fly it better. But he will still accept your position of authority. So take some tips from them. But do not let them think for one second that they can usurp your position as CA. This thread has alot of these types by the sounds of things. Grow up everyone, before your little pissing match kills someone.

 

[climbhappy]

ever heard of the term "captainitis"

anyone ever hear of the malady known as captainitis:

A condition whereby a newly upgraded captain displays
signs of paranoia, insecurity, channel surfs with the radar
in level one crap, runs the checklists three times, cusses
all the rampers, tells me i'm not flying the plane right,
and gets squirrely on even a gentleman's ILS?

Also, the important sign someone has the dreaded affliction:
They like to refer to themselves as "Captain" in social settings.

 

[SFR]

acaterry!!! I guess I am confused about your reply to my message. Did you say you are an idiot?

If you meant me I guess I was an idiot for leaving Eagle for ASA, upgrading to captain on the Brasilia, and all of this when I was 23, and I never had to PFT anywhere. Oh, yeah with a 4 year degree too. I guess I am an idiot, well I will just go out and buy my 3rd house and rent it out like I did the other one. What do I know anyway.

Everyone else, who cares about the CP vs. FO thing. Don't take yourself too serious!

It is real funny when people have an ego trip about being an RJ captain. Who cares... 757 captain..cool, RJ...big deal, that is where you should at least be anyway.

BIOF

 

[acaTerry]

SFR,
No, no son. What I am saying is that more often than not, the problem lies within the FO who is saying the CA is the cocky bum. I have only had 2 CA's in my life that I hated flying with. But I have had some 15 or so FO's who just thought they were the Captain. Hell, as a 23 year old CA you HAD to experience that.

I do not agree that "not putting up with their crap" is how to handle it. You just do your job and follow standards. Nothing more, nothing less. That keeps the jerks quiet and usually sooner or later they would do something "their way" and look stupid when you catch them. Then their "Me CA, you nothing" act falls apart.
By being a high and mighty he-man who "does not take any crap" only opens a whole new can of CRM problems.

It's like I said: when I was an FO, I found that almost every time I was warned about a bad CA, I had no problems. Almost all the CA's out there know the importance and necessity of an FO, and they respect the guys as well as their input as a fellow pilot. But the FO's who comes in thinking they are so darn awesome are the guys who ALWAYS going to have trouble with the CA. What happens? They find their way to a thread that's about them and do not like hearing it. So we get what we have now.

 

[Palerider957]

Good FO's make good Captains.....a bad FO will rarely make a good Captain.

Each person needs to know their job thoroughly, and do it to the best of their ability. If one person is wrapped up in arrogance, or insecurity--all you can do is be as standard as possible and express any concerns for safety.

If one person wants to be an a$$hole, fine--we can sit in silence (except for callouts) for 1-2 hours at a crack.

 

[crashpad]

Re: ever heard of the term "captainitis"

Also, the important sign someone has the dreaded affliction:
They like to refer to themselves as "Captain" in social settings. [/B]

___________________________________________________

Ah Nuts, I use to have "Capt" on my phone bill!

In Judo one uses the momentum of an attack instead of resistence to control the opponent. This method works every time with right-seat -captains. Just load em up with anything that keeps em busy, let them deal with pax, agents, wght+balance, etc. Let them makes decisions and think they are in a position that is not subordinate. By the end of the day, the wind to puff their sail will be greatly decreased.

 

[328jetdriver]

I've been w/ my company for well over 1 year. I can remember flying w/ only 1 CA who was weak. He had great decision making skills, but his flying wasn't up to par. The airplane got ahead of him numerous times. I gave him advice, but he was so caught up with trying to get "ahead" that he wasn't listening. I actually had to push some "buttons" to get us out of a 5000'/min descent. Yes, 5000'. He was very thankful, thank God. As for cocky/arrogant CA's, I hear from FO's that this guy is this or that guy is that and to watch out. Maybe it's just me, but when I fly w/ these guys/gals I have nothing but fun. I do my job and they do theirs. They give advice and I listen, vice versa. There is a reason why they are CA. I have no shame in taking constructive critism as long as it helps me to become a better pilot. I actually prefer it. I'm here to do a job, to have FUN, and most importantly be safe. It takes 2 crew members up front for this to happen. So people have fun, enjoy your careers. Good luck and safe flying.

 

[Greg]

Hi, it's nice to meet you. And what do you do on your days off?

-I like to hang out ALL day on message boards. It's cool and it makes me feel (or pretend) to be really smart.

 

[RichO]

ok, just one note...

Mil guys are typically more laid back then most in the airlines I've found.........maybe it has something to do with that fact that their experience in the military gave them many situations to deal with.....and now, flying in an enviroment where everything is really done for you, they don't sweat the small stuff like some.....just my two cents....

 

[SFR]

I dont know about that military thing. I have met people from both worlds. I guarantee that if someone is laid back they will be that way regardless of mil/civ. Vice versa too!!

I am laid back and I am 100% civilian. SO that blows that theory out of the sky.

Smoke it by the bag yeah!!!!!!

 

[B190Captain]

acaterry!!! I guess I am confused about your reply to my message. Did you say you are an idiot?

If you meant me I guess I was an idiot for leaving Eagle for ASA, upgrading to captain on the Brasilia, and all of this when I was 23, and I never had to PFT anywhere. Oh, yeah with a 4 year degree too. I guess I am an idiot, well I will just go out and buy my 3rd house and rent it out like I did the other one. What do I know anyway.

I am wondering on how did you manage to get a job at Eagle building your time and going to college at the same time? Oh, also upgrading to captain in a Brasilia at ASA when you only had your ATP less than a year. 23 is the minimum age to obtain a ATP certificate.

You are typed in a Brasilia meaning you did upgrade to Captain but your profile also states you fly the CRJ700. You are an FO in the CRJ? Were you downgraded?

Sounds fishy to me.