Arrogant/cocky first officers

[upncoming]

CRJPup-

Your post confused me. I was the FO in the scenario, it was the CAPTAIN who had the big head due to his recent upgrade, most likely. And yes, when someone uses the phrases "this is my airplane"/"this is my cockpit", then absolutely they have a CLEAR misunderstanding or blatent disregard for the crew concept. Don't know about the exiting the runway brief thing, 'never seen a captain do that until on the rollout, "we'll get off at X-ray" ... I maintain centerline as we slow while in reverse ... "okay I have the flight controls" ... "you have the flight controls" ... and we exit. That's how it's always been for me...

And Anaconda, don't be so quick to jump on me regarding the military thing. Yes, there are a few ex-military types who are a joy to fly with, I'll give you that. However, my experience has been the opposite, for the most part. In this particular case, when a guy says things like "you wouldn't make it in the <brand of service>" and "you're on notice, I only wish we were in the service" I gotta feel that his attitude and belligerence were/are related to his military experience.

Thanks.

Hhhmmm,

I'm sorry. I must not understand what the "crew concept" is. I must completely misunderstand the concept. Lordy, that might make me one of those dreaded, evil FO's with the small pecker and big head...

Guess briefing where you'll exit the runway is not part of your approach brief protocol.

I guess there's just many "tools" in the box today!

 

[General Lee]

Everybody is "new" when they get to a new airline. I don't care if you flew the CRJ for 10,000 at a regional---the first day flying for Southwest, jetblue, etc will be a bad one. It takes a while to get use to the surroundings, and hopefully you have an understanding Capt that has been there himself or herself. It might take a month, but everyone will either get used to it or leave. Cocky FO's who call for checklists or who think they are the next Tom Cruise with the flight attendants will ususally screw up and get humbled quick. If not, they are just laughed at.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FL000]

This is a demonstration of my briefing to the FO. You'll find that it develops trust and teamwork:

briefing demo

 

[ACE]

I find that crm is the most difficult part of being a Captain. I personally have two different briefings to my FO's. You can tell right from the get go what type of FO you are going to have. You either have one that knows his postion or one that thinks they are entitiled to your postion as well. Have a briefing prepared for both kinds of FO's. By this I mean a brieing that establishes your authority when you are going to fly with an arrogant FO. It has always worked for me because then I scare them into reality. I myself favor flying with female FO's . Females are always easy to get along with and don't seem to have anything to prove. We need more of them. I guess they are just a nice offset.

 

[chperplt]

FL000

That was messed up. Some people are wacked!!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I find that crm is the most difficult part of being a Captain.<snipped> It has always worked for me because then I scare them into reality.

Ace,
I'm not surprised you find CRM so difficult. LOL

 

[hmmm]

I second that ACE You do seem to have a head problem with CRM.... This subject should be renamed arrogant cocky insecure with their insecurities captains.

 

[cornbread]

god forbid...

God forbid if some of you on this thread/board ever ask a question rather than just attack everthing you see here. You remind me of the the insecure types that just go judgmental to cover your own insecure hide. Sad. Jeez, the guy was just asking for perspective.

(to those few) Try this. Assume the thread starter is venting or asking for constructive input. Then pause. That should do the trick. Reminds me of a bunch of old hens.

As to the original query, I aggree w/ an earlier poster. Sit back and let him humble himself because with that attitude, he most definately will.

 

[hmmm]

that goes for both sides of the thrust levers.... And I myself to be redundant am very secure with my own insecurities..... hehehe

Best brief.... on CRM. We're just a couple of FO's they let loose in a cockpit. The aircraft just reuires on of us to have a type. Seniority most of the time dictates that.


If a Captain is so full of himself lets just see how strong he feels about his competence judged by how far he lets an FO go.


hehehe or hahaha

 

[General Lee]

Cocky Captains are the same type of guys/girls that want to be line checkairman. What was that famous old saying? Never let a guy who wants to be a line check airman be one. Always find the guy/girl that gets along with everybody, and then ask them to be the check airman. People that start a brief with an arrogant tone have something to hide, usually bad piloting skills or major insecurities. Now at the same time, I don't want a lax Captain that is lazy. The best Captains at Delta that I have flown with are on top of their game, on top of the situation (with maintence items etc.) and nice to everyone, including the fuelers. But, every once and a while you get thrown in with a Napolean type who has something to prove. FO's can be dealt with quickly, but the Captains can be more of a problem. I just heard a story about an "in command" class given to new Captains, and the new Captain (probably on Delta Express and 30 years old) asked the moderator, "If I am so important to Delta Airlines, then why wasn't I given a first class ticket to come up here to ATL?" That is scary. I bet he is back in the FO seat now after the downsizing.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[greyhound]

Captains....

Don't forget the rest of the crew, FA's, groung personell, customer service etc....

Respect is earned not by the additional stripe, but how the captain treats all the other people he/she depends on.

Nobody likes people who are arrogant. But personally, I think it is far WORSE when the captain is the cocky one, over the FO. Those captains are a danger in the sky. If they yell, or say stuff like" I know what I am doing", the next time the FO sees something that might compromise safety, she/he might hesitate or think twice about saying something about it, just so the captain doesn't get on his case.

If your the Captain, and you find yourself sitting next to an arrogant FO, you can have the last laugh.

But I feel sorry for the new FO, who's sitting next to a captain who thinks he/she is gods gift to aviation.

 

[B190Captain]

Cocky Captains are the same type of guys/girls that want to be line checkairman. What was that famous old saying? Never let a guy who wants to be a line check airman be one. Always find the guy/girl that gets along with everybody, and then ask them to be the check airman.

YAY!! I am a nice guy!! Thanks. Check Airmanship was dropped on my lap.

Thanks Lee!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Re: Captains....

But I feel sorry for the new FO, who's sitting next to a captain who thinks he/she is gods gift to aviation.

True story:
I was fresh off IOE and got paired for a 4 leg local with a senior captain who for purposes of semi-anonymity we'll call Bud. Incidentally Bud left us for a major a few years ago.

Bud's briefing started something like this:

Bud: How many hours do you have in this airplane?
Me: xx, I just got off IOE last week.
Bud: Well let me tell you something. I consider you more of a liability than an asset.


That really happened. Hindsight is 20/20. What I should have done at that point is excused myself, called scheduling and had myself pulled off the flight. When they asked me why I would have told them "the Captain does not feel comfortable flying with me." and left it at that. I'm 99% sure there would have been no repercussions for me.


General Lee,
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I've flown with many check airmen and naturally had the normal share of line checks. Some of the check airmen I've flown with are exemplary captains. Obviously there may be some out there that are not enjoyable to work with but I haven't run into them. Perhaps our check airmen selection process is more refined than others.

 

[SFR]

I get a laugh out of a captain saying "this is my airplane". HA HA, do the shareholders know about that? Board of directors? Oh, and is if is your plane, do you get a healthy kickback per passenger? BTW, what are you charging the airline per month to use your plane?

Remember folks, the ONLY reason the person is in the left seat is because they are senior enough to hold captain!!!

Who cares anyways!! It all boils down to nailing chicks!!

 

[B190Captain]

I get a laugh out of a captain saying "this is my airplane". HA HA, do the shareholders know about that? Board of directors? Oh, and is if is your plane, do you get a healthy kickback per passenger? BTW, what are you charging the airline per month to use your plane?

Remember folks, the ONLY reason the person is in the left seat is because they are senior enough to hold captain!!!

Who cares anyways!! It all boils down to nailing chicks!!

NO COMMENT.