Are you sure things aren't bad at NJ too?

[Tgaug6300]

This question is for the NetJets pilots, but I was wondering if things were really all that financially stable with the company? Or, are they feeling the economic crunch like everyone else?

Reading all of your posts everyone seems to say that they feel very confident that no layoffs are coming (which is great, I don't want to see anyone loose thier job).

But, when I read in the newspaper "NetJets, has deferred a significant number of orders, Cessna said last week" (article can also be read at www.Kansas.com ). You can't help but think that they must be going through hard times like everyone else.

Oh, and can we please not turn this into a B19 for or against thread.

Thanks guys!

 

[Pervis]

Deferals don't mean furloughs, but rather delays in future hiring. Overall, traffic is down, but I try to be optimistic. When Marquis took off, our fleet took a beating and many jets looked like hell. Now we are taking advantage of the slow down and getting jets refurbished and/or replaced. The replacement schedule has not changed-yet. It all depends upon how long this economic downturn lasts. Costs savings are being realized though, so as the boss says, we will weather the storm.

 

[amaineiac]

Things have slowed, just like everywhere else. There are a number of reasons why I don't think a furlough is coming anytime soon, but there is no way to predict the future.

We've got some great guys at the top running this place and I have confidence that if anyone can steer us through this, it's them.

I can't do much about the economy, so I give our owners the best experience I can and hope that when and if they tighten their belts, they choose to sell a house instead of a share.

 

[fly4funcrj]

This is the first company I have worked for (aviation and non aviation) where I have faith in our upper management. Mr. S. knows what he is doing. And yes, things are slower at NJ than this time last year...

 

[CRJFlyer]

Wait the economy is bad now?? Eh buy all the planes it can, what could it hurt!!!


Not a real big headliner that NJA has deferred orders. I'd be more worried if Santulli decided to keep orders going without having the customers to fill them. Just smart business. Actually doesn't take an MBA to figure that when times are tough you slow down the growth.

Check still clears, per diem checks still arrive within a day or two. Still get paid for after-midnights and holidays, and the crew food still shows up. Sit a bit more in the hotels, but I've been doing alot of 3-4 day trips so not much utilization for me.

Carry on- nothing to see here....

Tgaug..I take it your flying more than before?

 

[CALRepublic]

Reading all of your posts everyone seems to say that they feel very confident that no layoffs are coming (which is great, I don't want to see anyone loose thier job).

!

Most of us have confidence in our management team, we think they're very capable, and understand the fractional market better than any other management, because they've been at it for the longest. That's it, we have confidence in them.

But when you ask "are you sure things aren't bad at NJA", you're making it sound like we (NJA pilots) are claiming our company is indestructible, that nothing will happen to us.

Will we furlough?? I don't know, like most of my co-workers, I have confidence and I trust Mr. Santulli, but I'm also nervous and worried.

 

[captain dad]

Some of the things I know are that NJA is going full steam ahead with it's $225 Million training complex.

Our boss has emphasized stability, strength and loyalty. He expects it from us and we have seen it from him.

He is also very well aware that furloughs cause massive morale problem, are short term financial gains for long term training, scheduling, and financial loses, while expectations for industry recovery are not set in stone and could be shorter than expected.

Everyone is slowing down. That's no surprise. How companies handle it is what will make the difference when things start growing again. Who will be best poised to take advantage when that happens?

Time will tell. Best of luck to us all.

 

[hammer2]

I think the furlough question will be answered when the summer months come and demand is at its lowest for all the fracs.
I hope we all can ride this out. I wish Flex would blow more sunshine as well!

 

[realityman]

I think the furlough question will be answered when the summer months come and demand is at its lowest for all the fracs.
I hope we all can ride this out. I wish Flex would blow more sunshine as well!

Precisely what I've been saying. I don't think we'll see furloughs at NJA yet. But if things don't pick up soon, I predict furloughs by the end of summer.

Maintaining the appearance of strength and stability can only be accomplished for so long before RTS will have to face economic reality and larger trimming of costs will be necessary.

However, things appear to be getting busier now. I hope it's a trend for how things go in the near future. The thought of furloughs has me worried too.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Have we lost some owners? Yes. Have other owners kept their shares but stopped or slowed their flying? Yes. But have other companies closed their flight departments with no intention of flying United, Delta or Continental? Absolutely. I was the backup for a demo flight last week for a large corporation that is closing the doors of their flight department (very sad) but CANNOT conduct their business using airline service. They have no alternative BUT fractional ownership. As the boss says, this is a "challenging" economic environment but this too shall pass.

I learned long ago to never say never. Hiring? No. Fleet growth? No. Furloughs? Possible but not probable.

 

[Mach92]

Flying is down, but not as much as NJI.

No talk of the "F" yet.

However this is a business. I expect the next 5 months will tell the tale for us.

The "campus" has been slowed. Aircraft are being pushed back. Not a real shock here.

 

[LarryinTN]

I was the backup for a demo flight last week for a large corporation

How does a demo flight work?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Netjets Sales arranges for potential owners to fly a trip, sometimes several, in order to experience the aircraft and the services offered. They are usually operated under Part 135. Would YOU buy a car without taking a test drive?

 

[DAS at 10/250]

250 from the bottom and not worried.

I've ridden three other companies almost into the ground. I jumped before the death blow came. I know what the signs are and they aren't here yet.

 

[CALRepublic]

How does a demo flight work?

They do the "power point presentation", they educate the perspective owner on the aircraft's range, performance, baggage capacity, costs and all that stuff. We take them from point A to point B, smile a lot, and answer any questions they might have....just a regular flight for us

 

[fischman]

I've been putting in some longs hours on the XL lately. No ferry legs today which is great!

 

[T-1GUY]

Very busy week on the G200.... New campus ramping up sooner than later... Oldest girl in the fleet, and boy did she look great... New Leather, Carpet, etc...

Also flew great...

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/37449979.html

Don't know what to make of this. Fast forward to 1:43. This guy Brian Foley is from a reputable company and claims to have heard that NJ is possibly close to announcing 300 layoffs. WTF?

 

[JungleJett]

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/37449979.html

Don't know what to make of this. Fast forward to 1:43. This guy Brian Foley is from a reputable company and claims to have heard that NJ is possibly close to announcing 300 layoffs. WTF?

Seriously dude...why are you perpetuating this? I know who you are and I know you are worried but come on man. He probably got the "info" from reading the garbage on here. And why would he know...and we would not?

Seriously...I think all NJA pilots need to take a step back and put the crackpipe down for a bit. We are digging ourselves a hole..and I ashamed to have taken part in it. No more...

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Seriously dude...why are you perpetuating this? I know who you are and I know you are worried but come on man. He probably got the "info" from reading the garbage on here. And why would he know...and we would not?

Seriously...I think all NJA pilots need to take a step back and put the crackpipe down for a bit. We are digging ourselves a hole..and I ashamed to have taken part in it. No more...

I don't mean or intend to perpetuate anything. Just worried about my job and my ability to support my family and looking for answers. How about trying to understand that before jumping down somebodies throat for posting something that was already available information that someone else was likely to post anyway. Also it pertained to the original post.

These days it's getting hard to tell who's hitting the crack pipe harder. The people that are worried or the ones that aren't worried at all.

And I don't care if you know who I am, makes no difference to me so what was the purpose in mentioning that?

 

[JungleJett]

Check your PM's

I don't mean or intend to perpetuate anything. Just worried about my job and my ability to support my family and looking for answers. How about trying to understand that before jumping down somebodies throat for posting something that was already available information that someone else was likely to post anyway. Also it pertained to the original post.

These days it's getting hard to tell who's hitting the crack pipe harder. The people that are worried or the ones that aren't worried at all.

And I don't care if you know who I am, makes no difference to me so what was the purpose in mentioning that?

 

[CRJFlyer]

Auburn..there is nothing we at NJA can really do about it. Besides keep to the schedule and try to help anyway we can.

Your gonna drive yourself crazy with this. I've been through this crap before (furlough, bankruptcy, concessions, more concessions) I've done probably exactly what your doing. Looking for any sign or magic post where someone says everything is ok.

Maybe it is maybe it's starting to slide. But really all you need to know is unless crap hits the fan, NJ will do everything it can to keep us on the property.

 

[amaineiac]

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/37449979.html

Don't know what to make of this. Fast forward to 1:43. This guy Brian Foley is from a reputable company and claims to have heard that NJ is possibly close to announcing 300 layoffs. WTF?

Next time you read something and freak out, step back for a minute and think about it before posting.

Everyone on the union website that has been through recurrent has said that mgmt isn't talking about furloughs.

The union hasn't been approached about give backs.

The company hasn't been sending out emails begging us to cut costs any way we can.

No panic, the world is ending type emails from mgmt.

I'm not saying furloughs aren't possible here, but I have a hard time believing that you're going to wake up one day and all of a sudden you're furloughed. There will be signs before a furlough, and so far, there haven't been any.

 

[CA1900]

FlyAuburn -- none of us knows what's going to happen, but I would consider the source of the rumor to be more than a little bit biased in this case. From the originator's web site:

Aviation Business Brokerage
Through our Wall Street affiliate, we act as selling agent for business aviation companies with a need for growth/venture capital or an exit strategy...


In other words, he enhances his business by stirring stuff up.
​

 

[Fozzy]

I don't mean or intend to perpetuate anything. Just worried about my job and my ability to support my family and looking for answers.

And how in the he!! does posting this crap help ANY of the things you are worried about!?! Spreading (that is what you are doing by reposting) rumors is just adding the FUD. STOP. If you need someone to hold your hand call some of your buddy's, just stop posting this crap.

 

[gunfyter]

Back of an envelope calculation... 300 pilots furlough would maybe save a measily $30 million dollars in a year.

I don't think its worth it.... the bad press and impressions.

The last time the jet market fell, the losses sustained were mostly because of buy backs. we had to buy back shares and sell the airplanes on the used jet market. We took significant losses selling those jets according to a Berkshire report that year. it was a slow year, I flew less than 400 hrs instead of 600 or 700. we didn't hire that year and EJM let go of about 40 guys. The next year we resumed hring and flying went through the roof gain.

WTF ... Columbus Ohio just gave NJ like $100 million in tax breaks because of a new campus and MORE jobs.... I really don't think its a good idea to cut jobs after squeezing that money out of the city.

 

[xrated]

Regardless of what board you go on or what the subject is, you're going to have your eternal pessimists and you're going to have Cool-aid drinkers. If your views are somewhere inbetween, you're standing on as firm a ground you can. In this industry the best policy is to expect the worse and hope for the best.

When it comes to "rumors", the vast majority never come to fruition, but the few facts that do come to light, generally got their start as a rumor.

With that being said, if I was near the bottom of the seniority list at NetJets, I'd probably hold off on any large purchaces and may think about stashing some cash away "just in case". It doesn't matter if you work for Birkshire or not, business is business and even if they did get a tax break, even if it will only save $30 million, even if they get bad press from it, if the bean counters say its the right move...it will be done.

No need to freak out, just be prepared.

Oh, and If you get upset about rumors, why the HE!! do you visit F.I.?

 

[gunfyter]

"...I come to bury rumors not to praise them...."

The difference with bean counters is this ...

The only Bean Counter that matters in this instance is Warren.

 

[xrated]

Ok, I will amend my comment:


It doesn't matter if you work for Berkshire or not, business is business and even if they did get a tax break, even if it will only save $30 million, even if they get bad press from it, if WARREN says its the right move...it will be done.

Oh and BTW,

Shaw Industries, owned by Berkshire Hathaway, let 125 people go.

Union Tank Car, majority owned by Berkshire Hathaway, let 130 peeps go.

Clayton Homes, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, let 90 go.

Berkshire Hathaway themselves, let 345 people go.

Like I said, Warren will OK cuts, if it makes BUSINESS sense.

As a pilot about to hit the streets...Good luck to everyone!

 

[gunfyter]

Alright...

So unless this guy got his info straight from Warren.... and I don't think Warren tells Charter Brokers what NJ will be doing...

He doesn't know anything.