JungleJett
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Are you sure things aren't bad at NJ too?
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Auburn..there is nothing we at NJA can really do about it. Besides keep to the schedule and try to help anyway we can.
Your gonna drive yourself crazy with this. I've been through this crap before (furlough, bankruptcy, concessions, more concessions) I've done probably exactly what your doing. Looking for any sign or magic post where someone says everything is ok.
Maybe it is maybe it's starting to slide. But really all you need to know is unless crap hits the fan, NJ will do everything it can to keep us on the property.
Your gonna drive yourself crazy with this. I've been through this crap before (furlough, bankruptcy, concessions, more concessions) I've done probably exactly what your doing. Looking for any sign or magic post where someone says everything is ok.
Maybe it is maybe it's starting to slide. But really all you need to know is unless crap hits the fan, NJ will do everything it can to keep us on the property.
Next time you read something and freak out, step back for a minute and think about it before posting.
Everyone on the union website that has been through recurrent has said that mgmt isn't talking about furloughs.
The union hasn't been approached about give backs.
The company hasn't been sending out emails begging us to cut costs any way we can.
No panic, the world is ending type emails from mgmt.
I'm not saying furloughs aren't possible here, but I have a hard time believing that you're going to wake up one day and all of a sudden you're furloughed. There will be signs before a furlough, and so far, there haven't been any.
CA1900
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FlyAuburn -- none of us knows what's going to happen, but I would consider the source of the rumor to be more than a little bit biased in this case. From the originator's web site:
Aviation Business Brokerage
Through our Wall Street affiliate, we act as selling agent for business aviation companies with a need for growth/venture capital or an exit strategy...
In other words, he enhances his business by stirring stuff up.
Through our Wall Street affiliate, we act as selling agent for business aviation companies with a need for growth/venture capital or an exit strategy...
In other words, he enhances his business by stirring stuff up.
Fozzy
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And how in the he!! does posting this crap help ANY of the things you are worried about!?! Spreading (that is what you are doing by reposting) rumors is just adding the FUD. STOP. If you need someone to hold your hand call some of your buddy's, just stop posting this crap.
gunfyter
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Back of an envelope calculation... 300 pilots furlough would maybe save a measily $30 million dollars in a year.
I don't think its worth it.... the bad press and impressions.
The last time the jet market fell, the losses sustained were mostly because of buy backs. we had to buy back shares and sell the airplanes on the used jet market. We took significant losses selling those jets according to a Berkshire report that year. it was a slow year, I flew less than 400 hrs instead of 600 or 700. we didn't hire that year and EJM let go of about 40 guys. The next year we resumed hring and flying went through the roof gain.
WTF ... Columbus Ohio just gave NJ like $100 million in tax breaks because of a new campus and MORE jobs.... I really don't think its a good idea to cut jobs after squeezing that money out of the city.
I don't think its worth it.... the bad press and impressions.
The last time the jet market fell, the losses sustained were mostly because of buy backs. we had to buy back shares and sell the airplanes on the used jet market. We took significant losses selling those jets according to a Berkshire report that year. it was a slow year, I flew less than 400 hrs instead of 600 or 700. we didn't hire that year and EJM let go of about 40 guys. The next year we resumed hring and flying went through the roof gain.
WTF ... Columbus Ohio just gave NJ like $100 million in tax breaks because of a new campus and MORE jobs.... I really don't think its a good idea to cut jobs after squeezing that money out of the city.
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xrated
Jeezz, What have I Done?
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Regardless of what board you go on or what the subject is, you're going to have your eternal pessimists and you're going to have Cool-aid drinkers. If your views are somewhere inbetween, you're standing on as firm a ground you can. In this industry the best policy is to expect the worse and hope for the best.
When it comes to "rumors", the vast majority never come to fruition, but the few facts that do come to light, generally got their start as a rumor.
With that being said, if I was near the bottom of the seniority list at NetJets, I'd probably hold off on any large purchaces and may think about stashing some cash away "just in case". It doesn't matter if you work for Birkshire or not, business is business and even if they did get a tax break, even if it will only save $30 million, even if they get bad press from it, if the bean counters say its the right move...it will be done.
No need to freak out, just be prepared.
Oh, and If you get upset about rumors, why the HE!! do you visit F.I.?
When it comes to "rumors", the vast majority never come to fruition, but the few facts that do come to light, generally got their start as a rumor.
With that being said, if I was near the bottom of the seniority list at NetJets, I'd probably hold off on any large purchaces and may think about stashing some cash away "just in case". It doesn't matter if you work for Birkshire or not, business is business and even if they did get a tax break, even if it will only save $30 million, even if they get bad press from it, if the bean counters say its the right move...it will be done.
No need to freak out, just be prepared.
Oh, and If you get upset about rumors, why the HE!! do you visit F.I.?
xrated
Jeezz, What have I Done?
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Ok, I will amend my comment:
It doesn't matter if you work for Berkshire or not, business is business and even if they did get a tax break, even if it will only save $30 million, even if they get bad press from it, if WARREN says its the right move...it will be done.
Oh and BTW,
Shaw Industries, owned by Berkshire Hathaway, let 125 people go.
Union Tank Car, majority owned by Berkshire Hathaway, let 130 peeps go.
Clayton Homes, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, let 90 go.
Berkshire Hathaway themselves, let 345 people go.
Like I said, Warren will OK cuts, if it makes BUSINESS sense.
As a pilot about to hit the streets...Good luck to everyone!
It doesn't matter if you work for Berkshire or not, business is business and even if they did get a tax break, even if it will only save $30 million, even if they get bad press from it, if WARREN says its the right move...it will be done.
Oh and BTW,
Shaw Industries, owned by Berkshire Hathaway, let 125 people go.
Union Tank Car, majority owned by Berkshire Hathaway, let 130 peeps go.
Clayton Homes, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, let 90 go.
Berkshire Hathaway themselves, let 345 people go.
Like I said, Warren will OK cuts, if it makes BUSINESS sense.
As a pilot about to hit the streets...Good luck to everyone!
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CALRepublic
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It only takes one to start a flaming fest, and everybody follows.
You are all barking up the wrong tree, FlyAurburn didn't start this thread, Tguag6300 did.
FlyAuburn, anything that has to do witht he F word freeks people out, don't post things like that unless its an official source. No worries man
You are all barking up the wrong tree, FlyAurburn didn't start this thread, Tguag6300 did.
FlyAuburn, anything that has to do witht he F word freeks people out, don't post things like that unless its an official source. No worries man
F/O
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Look, it's still corporate America. Santulli's ultimate job is to provide positive revenues for BH. It looks bad if he doesn't. We know Uncle Warren is not the type of guy that micromanages his CEOs. If the deed has to be done, it will be done.
And if you think the union hasn't at least been *approached* then you are out to lunch. The difference between CS and NJ in the furlough arena is that NJ has a union and management can't just act unilaterally like CS did. Behind the scenes, the union is putting up roadblocks, as well they should. Without the union the F word would likely have already been a done deal. That's what your dues money is going for.
And if you think the union hasn't at least been *approached* then you are out to lunch. The difference between CS and NJ in the furlough arena is that NJ has a union and management can't just act unilaterally like CS did. Behind the scenes, the union is putting up roadblocks, as well they should. Without the union the F word would likely have already been a done deal. That's what your dues money is going for.
Wow, that didn't take long, NJA pilots have access. Why not leave what's on our board over there. There are no points to be made with this crowd.
Any chance of a summarization for those that aren't yet at NJ?
Notice I didn't post the actual statement just that it was somewhat positive. If the company/Union want to make a public statement I will leave it up to them. I just thought that with this thread's negative perception a post with a positive connotation would help. As we all agree perception is huge in our industry. I know most of us use Flight info as a place to: vent, talk shop, or spread rumors. But, There are actually a few Owners who post/read this board on occasion.
fischman
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Tgaug6300
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Fisch,
Thanks for the info. Everyone I didn't mean to start an arguement. Just asking a question. Good luck guys!
Found this on google news:
NetJets CP Program rated A-1+2009-01-13[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Standard & Poor's Ratings Services today said it assigned its 'A-1+' rating on NetJets Inc.'s $1.4 billion commercial paper program, which is fully and unconditionally guaranteed by NetJets' parent, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (NYSE:BRK). This program replaces a $1.0 billion commercial paper program that has been in place since December 2005, which was also guaranteed by BRK.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"NetJets expects to use the proceeds from this program for general corporate purposes, and it plans to use the full $1.4 billion in the near term," said Standard & Poor's credit analyst John Iten. "However, we do not expect the total amount of debt that NetJets will incur to increase materially from current levels because we expect the company to use most of the proceeds from the increase in commercial paper outstanding to reduce borrowings under its bank credit facility."[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]NetJets--purchased by BRK in August 1998--is the world's largest provider of fractional ownership programs for general aviation aircraft. NetJets generates its revenue and earnings primarily by selling fractional aircraft interests and managing flight operations.[/FONT]
This is the highest rating a company can get. Does not seem like NJ will be laying off anyone soon based on this and their current strength. Yes, Warren Buffett will cut back at other companies owned by him but, most have not. Just because he cuts back in one company, that has zero merrit on the other ones. They are independent.
NetJets CP Program rated A-1+2009-01-13[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Standard & Poor's Ratings Services today said it assigned its 'A-1+' rating on NetJets Inc.'s $1.4 billion commercial paper program, which is fully and unconditionally guaranteed by NetJets' parent, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (NYSE:BRK). This program replaces a $1.0 billion commercial paper program that has been in place since December 2005, which was also guaranteed by BRK.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"NetJets expects to use the proceeds from this program for general corporate purposes, and it plans to use the full $1.4 billion in the near term," said Standard & Poor's credit analyst John Iten. "However, we do not expect the total amount of debt that NetJets will incur to increase materially from current levels because we expect the company to use most of the proceeds from the increase in commercial paper outstanding to reduce borrowings under its bank credit facility."[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]NetJets--purchased by BRK in August 1998--is the world's largest provider of fractional ownership programs for general aviation aircraft. NetJets generates its revenue and earnings primarily by selling fractional aircraft interests and managing flight operations.[/FONT]
This is the highest rating a company can get. Does not seem like NJ will be laying off anyone soon based on this and their current strength. Yes, Warren Buffett will cut back at other companies owned by him but, most have not. Just because he cuts back in one company, that has zero merrit on the other ones. They are independent.
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