Are you sure things aren't bad at NJ too?

[xrated]

I agree with you!

 

[CALRepublic]

It only takes one to start a flaming fest, and everybody follows.

You are all barking up the wrong tree, FlyAurburn didn't start this thread, Tguag6300 did.

FlyAuburn, anything that has to do witht he F word freeks people out, don't post things like that unless its an official source. No worries man

 

[pilot772]

Well guys If you check the Union board there is a message from the Union president who spoke directly with the company president (JC) Good news and I hope it will put some of these rumors to rest for now.:beer:

 

[F/O]

Look, it's still corporate America. Santulli's ultimate job is to provide positive revenues for BH. It looks bad if he doesn't. We know Uncle Warren is not the type of guy that micromanages his CEOs. If the deed has to be done, it will be done.

And if you think the union hasn't at least been *approached* then you are out to lunch. The difference between CS and NJ in the furlough arena is that NJ has a union and management can't just act unilaterally like CS did. Behind the scenes, the union is putting up roadblocks, as well they should. Without the union the F word would likely have already been a done deal. That's what your dues money is going for.

 

[x402]

Well guys If you check the Union board there is a message from the Union president who spoke directly with the company president (JC) Good news and I hope it will put some of these rumors to rest for now.:beer:

Wow, that didn't take long, NJA pilots have access. Why not leave what's on our board over there. There are no points to be made with this crowd.

 

[BeeFCaKe]

Well guys If you check the Union board there is a message from the Union president who spoke directly with the company president (JC) Good news and I hope it will put some of these rumors to rest for now.:beer:

Any chance of a summarization for those that aren't yet at NJ?

 

[pilot772]

Wow, that didn't take long, NJA pilots have access. Why not leave what's on our board over there. There are no points to be made with this crowd.

Notice I didn't post the actual statement just that it was somewhat positive. If the company/Union want to make a public statement I will leave it up to them. I just thought that with this thread's negative perception a post with a positive connotation would help. As we all agree perception is huge in our industry. I know most of us use Flight info as a place to: vent, talk shop, or spread rumors. But, There are actually a few Owners who post/read this board on occasion.

 

[fischman]

Any chance of a summarization for those that aren't yet at NJ?

NetJets has no immediate plans to furlough anyone.

Summary complete.

 

[Tgaug6300]

NetJets has no immediate plans to furlough anyone.

Summary complete.

Fisch,

Thanks for the info. Everyone I didn't mean to start an arguement. Just asking a question. Good luck guys!

 

[flyipilot]

Found this on google news:

NetJets CP Program rated A-1+2009-01-13[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Standard & Poor's Ratings Services today said it assigned its 'A-1+' rating on NetJets Inc.'s $1.4 billion commercial paper program, which is fully and unconditionally guaranteed by NetJets' parent, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (NYSE:BRK). This program replaces a $1.0 billion commercial paper program that has been in place since December 2005, which was also guaranteed by BRK.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"NetJets expects to use the proceeds from this program for general corporate purposes, and it plans to use the full $1.4 billion in the near term," said Standard & Poor's credit analyst John Iten. "However, we do not expect the total amount of debt that NetJets will incur to increase materially from current levels because we expect the company to use most of the proceeds from the increase in commercial paper outstanding to reduce borrowings under its bank credit facility."[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]NetJets--purchased by BRK in August 1998--is the world's largest provider of fractional ownership programs for general aviation aircraft. NetJets generates its revenue and earnings primarily by selling fractional aircraft interests and managing flight operations.[/FONT]

This is the highest rating a company can get. Does not seem like NJ will be laying off anyone soon based on this and their current strength. Yes, Warren Buffett will cut back at other companies owned by him but, most have not. Just because he cuts back in one company, that has zero merrit on the other ones. They are independent.

 

[BeeFCaKe]

NetJets has no immediate plans to furlough anyone.

Summary complete.

Much Appreciated! Still hoping for that call... ... ...

 

[B19 Flyer]

NetJets has no immediate plans to furlough anyone.

Summary complete.

This is probably true, but the operative word here is "immediate". I hope nobody gets furloughed, but if it happens in NJ, I predict it's going to be a larger number and a deeper cut than any of the other fracs due to the size of the contract.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I would expect some kind of retirement incentive package to be offered before any furlough. And I don't expect either one....

 

[Diesel]

U going to take it gut?

 

[gunfyter]

This is probably true, but the operative word here is "immediate". I hope nobody gets furloughed, but if it happens in NJ, I predict it's going to be a larger number and a deeper cut than any of the other fracs due to the size of the contract.

Laughable.

Size of contracts have nothing to do with Flight Activity and sales. If there is flight activity to support the need for X number of pilots.... There are no furloughs.

If there is no flying ... 'nother story. That has to do with the economy and repeal of tax-cuts for the rich. Not unions or contracts.

I predict your non-union operation folds llike a tent before NJ furloughs....

 

[RNObased]

This is probably true, but the operative word here is "immediate". I hope nobody gets furloughed, but if it happens in NJ, I predict it's going to be a larger number and a deeper cut than any of the other fracs due to the size of the contract.

Would you like to put your money where your mouth is??

Were you an abused child??? Or are making up for some short coming?? I know you hate NJA and by proxy NJI, but slamming us every chance you get and your continued spreading of hate and fear really does get old. You must really be a joy to share a cockpit with, all flowers, sunshine and jokes, I'm sure.

 

[Flex-ible]

This is probably true, but the operative word here is "immediate". I hope nobody gets furloughed, but if it happens in NJ, I predict it's going to be a larger number and a deeper cut than any of the other fracs due to the size of the contract.

Of course any personnel change at NJ would be the largest - they are the biggest fractional by far.

As far as the relationship to the contract, I think you will find that FX's cost per pilot is about the same as NJ's. You will notice that these two companies are the only ones that haven't furloughed. Perhaps furloughs are based on company performance, not employee pay.

 

[gutshotdraw]

U going to take it gut?

I ain't THAT old! But I feel like it after last night.....

 

[fischman]

This is probably true, but the operative word here is "immediate". I hope nobody gets furloughed, but if it happens in NJ, I predict it's going to be a larger number and a deeper cut than any of the other fracs due to the size of the contract.

I purposefully used that term because saying we will never furlough is irresponsible.

Obviously, if NJA has to furlough is is going to be a larger number than we have seen other fracs do in the past. We are bigger than ALL the major fracs combined.

However, for the foreseeable future, I don't see it happening.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I purposefully used that term because saying we will never furlough is irresponsible.

Obviously, if NJA has to furlough is is going to be a larger number than we have seen other fracs do in the past. We are bigger than ALL the major fracs combined.

However, for the foreseeable future, I don't see it happening.

My version of "bigger" will be pct of flight crews and airplanes vs. any of the others. I hope it's not true, but I don't see any way NJ can afford to maintain a heavy contract burden in today's market. I originally stated that I though it would happen by year's end. Now I think it will be much sooner.

When it happens, what I will be curious about will be if NJASAP would be willing to renegotiate the contract prior to the furloughs to a lower pay amount that will keep more pilots on the property or if they will just maintain status quo and let the bottom seniority guys drop off. If they attempt to re-negotiate before and take pay cuts to save jobs, I'll eat my hat.

 

[RP170]

My version of "bigger" will be pct of flight crews and airplanes vs. any of the others. I hope it's not true, but I don't see any way NJ can afford to maintain a heavy contract burden in today's market. I originally stated that I though it would happen by year's end. Now I think it will be much sooner.

When it happens, what I will be curious about will be if NJASAP would be willing to renegotiate the contract prior to the furloughs to a lower pay amount that will keep more pilots on the property or if they will just maintain status quo and let the bottom seniority guys drop off. If they attempt to re-negotiate before and take pay cuts to save jobs, I'll eat my hat.

Dude, you're a real piece of work. I bet your mom is proud. They need an FI "Tool of the Year Award" similar to the Darwin Awards. You'd get my vote!

Love the big, blue font as well. That's classy.

 

[clickclickboom]

Guys ALL I can say is that if you are worried about your job take a step back and look left and right see those planes with cw and lx on the tails?

They will be dissappearing soon unfortunately

Best of luck guys from your friends at Jetblue

 

[Diesel]

Guys ALL I can say is that if you are worried about your job take a step back and look left and right see those planes with cw and lx on the tails?

They will be dissappearing soon unfortunately

Best of luck guys from your friends at Jetblue

hate to tell you but our tails end with QS and the other frac's blinked.

We aren't jetblue and the typical 121 economics don't apply to us.

 

[Willy21]

I think he was saying that FLOPS might not be around for much longer. If FLOPS goes down then NetJets might pick up the slack and save jobs. That is what I understand his statement to say. It is not a slam on QS.

 

[gunfyter]

When it happens, what I will be curious about will be if NJASAP would be willing to renegotiate the contract prior to the furloughs to a lower pay amount that will keep more pilots on the property

No I would not be willing.

Here is why.

1. The planes have to move.... If they have to move they need pilots. There will be no furloughs in that case.

2. If the planes do NOT need to move ... You take concessions ... the planes still do not need to move ...

They furlough anyway... because ... you are not needed.

So we take NO CONCESSIONS and when the economy turns around ... the pilots are recalled to a Job with a Salary worth coming back to.

 

[Ultra Grump]

No I would not be willing.

Here is why.

1. The planes have to move.... If they have to move they need pilots. There will be no furloughs in that case.

2. If the planes do NOT need to move ... You take concessions ... the planes still do not need to move ...

They furlough anyway... because ... you are not needed.

So we take NO CONCESSIONS and when the economy turns around ... the pilots are recalled to a Job with a Salary worth coming back to.

You took the words right out of my mouth (keyboard?). Well said.

 

[jehtplane]

Of course any personnel change at NJ would be the largest - they are the biggest fractional by far.

As far as the relationship to the contract, I think you will find that FX's cost per pilot is about the same as NJ's. You will notice that these two companies are the only ones that haven't furloughed. Perhaps furloughs are based on company performance, not employee pay.

I would say it is based on aircraft utilization and growth. CS did not take delivery of airframes that we hired for, hence the furloughs, FLOPS is getting rid of airframes, hence the furloughs. I would not be throwing stones at CS or FlightOps. Right now Flex has the lowest aircraft utilization out of the Big 4. CS has the highest. I do not want to see anyone else on the street, but lets be realistic, utilization is WAY DOWN, Fractional sales are almost non-existent, Good luck to us all, EVERYONE is gonna feel some of this downturn before it is all said and done.

 

[gunfyter]

Concesssions are the dumb mistake airline unions have committed. Now they have to work to go back where they were decades ago.

 

[jonjuan]

Concesssions are the dumb mistake airline unions have committed. Now they have to work to go back where they were decades ago.

I wonder how the new President would feel about thoughts of "no concessions" by his union supporters?

Here's what he said in his inaugural address:

"It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours."

Here's what senior nja pilots would have said instead:

"It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather see a friend lose their job than take a pay cut which sees us through our darkest hours. The junior expecting father would much rather lose his pay and healthcare in this economy than maybe come back some day to a job with less than industry leading pay."

 

[gunfyter]

Well, I don't support him. I voted for the other guy.

But the point is ... Concessions don't save jobs.

Tax cuts for the Rich save jobs.... so they can afford private jets.