Are You An Asa Pilot Or A Ramp Instructor?

[Captain X]

Of course SWA and Frontier have both done "A Day In My Shoes" type programs and have a far better "teamwork" attitude than a lot of othe airlines out there.

Personally, I think pilots should have to work a day or two on the ramp, a day or two in the cabin, and a day or two doing Customer Service things to see what else happens first hand. I think that those groups should get involved or (to the extent possible) or observe duties that other co-workers have to do (while not having to do their own duties) to learn the "other sides."

Maybe, just maybe, if we could get the elitist "I'm flight crew. I'm better and more important than you" chip off our shoulders and realize that we ARE NOT the glue that holds the fabric together, we might start getting somewhere.

The other day, the skipper and I had all our stuff done. The inflight crew was all buckled up in the back, the tug driver and the bag guys were all done. Ya' know what? We couldn't go anywhere. Why? Because the jetway was frozen (it was -18°) and wouldn't go in gear. Even if it wasn't faulty, we still would have NEEDED that jetway driver in order to make the operation run. In fact, we NEEDED the facilities mechanics who came and fixed the jetway in order to make the operation run.

 

[ekuflyer]

Of course SWA and Frontier have both done "A Day In My Shoes" type programs and have a far better "teamwork" attitude than a lot of othe airlines out there.

Personally, I think pilots should have to work a day or two on the ramp, a day or two in the cabin, and a day or two doing Customer Service things to see what else happens first hand. I think that those groups should get involved or (to the extent possible) or observe duties that other co-workers have to do (while not having to do their own duties) to learn the "other sides."

Maybe, just maybe, if we could get the elitist "I'm flight crew. I'm better and more important than you" chip off our shoulders and realize that we ARE NOT the glue that holds the fabric together, we might start getting somewhere.

The other day, the skipper and I had all our stuff done. The inflight crew was all buckled up in the back, the tug driver and the bag guys were all done. Ya' know what? We couldn't go anywhere. Why? Because the jetway was frozen (it was -18°) and wouldn't go in gear. Even if it wasn't faulty, we still would have NEEDED that jetway driver in order to make the operation run. In fact, we NEEDED the facilities mechanics who came and fixed the jetway in order to make the operation run.

Well said

 

[SEVEN]

Won't ever happen.

 

[ekuflyer]

Won't ever happen.

probably not, but its worth a try. It might take just cleaning house down there to get years of piss poor management out and the corporate culture changed.

 

[WalterSobchak]

If the pilots of ASA are going to all have this attitude about the whole thing, then they just need to scratch the whole thing now. Either that, or the ASA pilots just need to get together and collectively deny every single one of these jumpseaters "in the interest of safety".

Listen, I was a ramp rat once...many of you probably were. And while there are some real pieces of crap on the ATL ramp and everywhere else...there are also some rampers that are genuinely interested in how others do their job and how the way the ramper does his job affects the pilot and vice versa. In theory, this isn't necessarily a bad idea...just bad timing and likely not very well thought out. Maybe a sim ride would make better sense.

I'll never forget my first jumpseat ride as a dispatcher. I got grilled by a fairly senior captain about how we calculated fuel load, fuel policies, and the such. He didn't like or agree with anything we did. Hell, what he (a guy 20+ years with company) thought dispatch was all about was way off.

After a few minutes of tension (he originally wasn't a huge fan of having a dispatcher in his jumpseat on the first early morning leg), I politely answered his questions and he answered all of mine. To make a long story short, we both came away with a renewed mutual respect for what the other does and since then, anytime a situation has arisen that we needed to put our heads together, his once condescending tone and "going against anything dispatch says just because it's coming from dispatch" attitude are gone...and I think that allows us to run a much smoother, much safer operation.

We can learn alot from each other...from the captain down to the lowly ramper. Does your management suck? Yeah, pretty much. But, maybe you should give this a shot before you tear it down as another tactic by "The Man" to hold you down.

 

[PalmettoPilot]

Let em ride. Break the plane at the outstation, take em to the hotel with you, show them how to heat up the can of Campbell's with the coffee pot and then how to wash their froot of the looms in the sink. Then make sure they are on the van with you at 0415 to start a 5 leg day blocked at 7:58 with a 4 hour sit in the middle.

 

[av8tor4239]

Once again...

To all of you that think this is a good kum by yah session... ANSWER THIS

Why can the ramp staff not learn this stuff in the simulator and classroom...?and why do they need to know how the FMS works?

 

[Muff-N-Man]

Can I sit on your lap?

I sure hope the ASA FA's raise holy hell about this one. If these jokers can ride on the jumpseat without any previous knowledge of cockpit procedures, give me a good reason a FA can't ride on it as well. They should be given access to the JS to commute.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Once again...

To all of you that think this is a good kum by yah session... ANSWER THIS

Why can the ramp staff not learn this stuff in the simulator and classroom...?and why do they need to know how the FMS works?

Oh come on!, If MAMAGMENT had put this out with the sim instead of actual, you would bi$&%CH about that too!....

NOTHING THAT ASA DOES WILL EVER BE LOOKED AT IN A GOOD LIGHT BY ASA PILOTS...They (managment) have destroyed your trust. If they gave you $1,000,000 youd complain that you had to pay the taxes on it!

 

[John Pennekamp]

If the pilots of ASA are going to all have this attitude about the whole thing, then they just need to scratch the whole thing now. Either that, or the ASA pilots just need to get together and collectively deny every single one of these jumpseaters "in the interest of safety".

Listen, I was a ramp rat once...many of you probably were. And while there are some real pieces of crap on the ATL ramp and everywhere else...there are also some rampers that are genuinely interested in how others do their job and how the way the ramper does his job affects the pilot and vice versa. In theory, this isn't necessarily a bad idea...just bad timing and likely not very well thought out. Maybe a sim ride would make better sense.

I'll never forget my first jumpseat ride as a dispatcher. I got grilled by a fairly senior captain about how we calculated fuel load, fuel policies, and the such. He didn't like or agree with anything we did. Hell, what he (a guy 20+ years with company) thought dispatch was all about was way off.

After a few minutes of tension (he originally wasn't a huge fan of having a dispatcher in his jumpseat on the first early morning leg), I politely answered his questions and he answered all of mine. To make a long story short, we both came away with a renewed mutual respect for what the other does and since then, anytime a situation has arisen that we needed to put our heads together, his once condescending tone and "going against anything dispatch says just because it's coming from dispatch" attitude are gone...and I think that allows us to run a much smoother, much safer operation.

We can learn alot from each other...from the captain down to the lowly ramper. Does your management suck? Yeah, pretty much. But, maybe you should give this a shot before you tear it down as another tactic by "The Man" to hold you down.

Again, to be clear, we're talking about Atlanta ACS (Airport Customer Service) managers jumpseating, not rampers and dispatchers. That means gate supervisors, customer service managers (red coats) and ramp zone leaders.

These are the exact people who already second guess, or even disregard every decision we as captains make on the ground. Having them looking over our shoulders, and giving us the Spanish Inquisition on the jumpseat, will only reaffirm their perception of power over us and further undermine the captain's authority, because these already know-it-all individuals will feel further empowered to overrule our decisions on boarding, cargo loading, paperwork, and passenger issues.

If you don't work here, then you don't understand the "Atlantitude".