Are You An Asa Pilot Or A Ramp Instructor?

[Flyingdutchman]

Of course SWA and Frontier have both done "A Day In My Shoes" type programs and have a far better "teamwork" attitude than a lot of othe airlines out there.

Personally, I think pilots should have to work a day or two on the ramp, a day or two in the cabin, and a day or two doing Customer Service things to see what else happens first hand. I think that those groups should get involved or (to the extent possible) or observe duties that other co-workers have to do (while not having to do their own duties) to learn the "other sides."

Maybe, just maybe, if we could get the elitist "I'm flight crew. I'm better and more important than you" chip off our shoulders and realize that we ARE NOT the glue that holds the fabric together, we might start getting somewhere.

The other day, the skipper and I had all our stuff done. The inflight crew was all buckled up in the back, the tug driver and the bag guys were all done. Ya' know what? We couldn't go anywhere. Why? Because the jetway was frozen (it was -18°) and wouldn't go in gear. Even if it wasn't faulty, we still would have NEEDED that jetway driver in order to make the operation run. In fact, we NEEDED the facilities mechanics who came and fixed the jetway in order to make the operation run.

Well said bro.

 

[WalterSobchak]

4. In regard to your dispatch story, we were better off when we were 135 and controlled all those things ourself. Then you didn't have to worry about calling your dispatcher; either not getting an answer at all, or someone other than your dispatcher answering the phone to inform you the dispatcher has stepped away from the desk! We can do it better--it's our tush sitting in the seat!

Exactly the attitude that will KEEP ASA at "Number 19". I love the God complex some of you guys have...

(Note I said SOME...not all.)

 

[Speedtape]

Of course SWA and Frontier have both done "A Day In My Shoes" type programs and have a far better "teamwork" attitude than a lot of othe airlines out there.

Personally, I think pilots should have to work a day or two on the ramp, a day or two in the cabin, and a day or two doing Customer Service things to see what else happens first hand. I think that those groups should get involved or (to the extent possible) or observe duties that other co-workers have to do (while not having to do their own duties) to learn the "other sides."

Maybe, just maybe, if we could get the elitist "I'm flight crew. I'm better and more important than you" chip off our shoulders and realize that we ARE NOT the glue that holds the fabric together, we might start getting somewhere.

The other day, the skipper and I had all our stuff done. The inflight crew was all buckled up in the back, the tug driver and the bag guys were all done. Ya' know what? We couldn't go anywhere. Why? Because the jetway was frozen (it was -18°) and wouldn't go in gear. Even if it wasn't faulty, we still would have NEEDED that jetway driver in order to make the operation run. In fact, we NEEDED the facilities mechanics who came and fixed the jetway in order to make the operation run.

Replies to:

Paragraph 1. Team work starts with the Coach or Leadership Team. Southwest and Frontier have a Leadership Team with a proven record. That's why, when they turn and say "Charge!", their people are already half way up the hill!

Paragraph 2. Your opinion has some merit but would not solve the root problem. However, it certainly would be beneficial to those whose first real job was sitting in a flight deck, and we have plenty of those. Most pilots simply want the support and resources to do our jobs safely and properly. And yes, that means to accomplish that goal, involves depending on others to provide those resources and support.

Paragraph 3. Most people I fly with don't have a chip on their shoulder or possess an elitist attitude. That must be another airline. But, we do expect that the same standards that we have to conform to in performing our job, should be applied to the other work groups.

Paragraph 4. You left out the ATC controllers who have to give you a clearance and maintain your separation. You left out the passengers who buy the tickets, that make it possible for us to live the dream. You left out our Mommas who brought us into this world and raised us to be the fine people that we are today. You left out the Pappas who had a major part in us getting here too, and then providing for us. It goes on and on! You could even include the airport employee who cuts the grass around the taxi way signs and the one who changes the bulbs in the burned out lights along the runway. Pilots as well as Pilot haters, do not live by bread alone!

 

[WalterSobchak]

Paragraph 3. Most people I fly with don't have a chip on their shoulder or possess an elitist attitude.

Sadly, most people that fly with you apparently can't say the same.

 

[Speedtape]

Exactly the attitude that will KEEP ASA at "Number 19". I love the God complex some of you guys have...

(Note I said SOME...not all.)

First, I can assure you a few things! No pilot wants to be anything other than #1 at anything he/she does! At least that's my observation. We aren't perfect, but we will strive for perfection, even when conditions are not ideal! You can call that elitist or anything you want, but that is the normal profile of most pilots I know! There are many things I cannot control--being number 19 is one of them! Give us a Management team that gives us the tools and processes to do our jobs better, and I can guarantee we will not be 19!

Maybe you should close out the internet on your ASD monitor and get back to flight following!

 

[Speedtape]

Sadly, most people that fly with you apparently can't say the same.

You wouldn't know!

 

[ASARJMan]

Some would argue that "back on line" is the last place she belongs.

I'll second that. Hopefully a strong FO flys with her.

 

[ASARJMan]

1. Spend the money and give them proper training, and retraining, and they could do the job for which they were hired. Instead of the flight deck, they could stand in the Concourse window, at any given time, and learn everything they needed to know about the operation.
"

Send them over to AirTran or DAL to observe. A world of difference. Better yet, let our folks work Freedom, CMR and SKYW and give us those Delta rampers!

Release Us Mr MediatorMan!

 

[John Pennekamp]

hmm. 8 yrs. ASA, 4.5 yrs. NWA, 3 yrs. Valujet/Airtran, 2 yrs. corp., 11 yrs. Coca-Cola...been there, done all that you're not as awesome as you think.

You went from Coke to corporate to Valujet to NWA to ASA? Your resume seems to be going BACKWARDS, SPORT! :laugh:

I heard there's a story about you on the bathroom wall. Something about you and a male FA on an overnight...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Some would argue that "back on line" is the last place she belongs.

True, true. I hope she has good FOs...

 

[Old Crow]

The only problem I see with this program is that it will be too overwhelming to gain any real knowledge.
We all take for granted the knowledge we have and use on a daily basis. I doubt that these people will even have a college degree, much less any type of technical background. The 121 cockpit is quite overwhelming, even to the newhire pilot, therefore, they will be lost and leave with a sense of "wow that was fun".

 

[Crossky]

When Air Wisconsin took over the ORD ramp from ACA, it sucked, and eventually the company enacted this same policy, except that it was open to any ramp agent, as well as the managers. The one rampie we had in our JS was a normal shmo up to MKE and back. He behaved well, no puke, and we didn't give a dual lesson in all the aviovics and airborne procedures. There were a few pilots we had who didn't care for the program, we don't have it anymore, just had it for a while in ORD.

Really to me a program like this is meant to foster teamwork between the ramp and flightcrew workgroups. Why do rampies hate using headsets? I don't know but it's so nice when they have one that works, you can explain the push delay or any other issue that pops up. AWAC has a pretty tough time still with the PHL rampies but I've found that face to face communication (or attempt anyway) is much more effective in getting things done than running it through the ops freq.

Anyway I sympathize with your position ASAer's, it seems like your relationship with your ACS is not acceptable.

 

[ohplease!]

You went from Coke to corporate to Valujet to NWA to ASA? Your resume seems to be going BACKWARDS, SPORT! :laugh:

I heard there's a story about you on the bathroom wall. Something about you and a male FA on an overnight...

yep. mgmt.-mech.-pilot.

on the bathroom wall? thats mature and professional and its obviously true since its on the bathroom wall...

 

[Puck Mugger]

hmm. 8 yrs. ASA, 4.5 yrs. NWA, 3 yrs. Valujet/Airtran, 2 yrs. corp., 11 yrs. Coca-Cola...been there, done all that you're not as awesome as you think.

Sounds like you have trouble kkeping a job. I guess you split after you piss off the last of you co workers, huh? Move on to greener pastures where no one knows what an annoying big mouth with an over inflated sense of self-importance and fountain of industry wisdom you are?

 

[doug_or]

Now you just hold on one second here...wand toss is an important part of any ramprat's day.

You people who've never worked the ramp make me sick.

You damn kids with your hip-hop music and your internets. Back when I worked the ramp we didn't have any of your magic so-called "wands". We used our own body, like real men. At night they turned on the landing light to see us. I still have no night vision, but it built charecter. Thats the problem with you kids now adays. Yer all a bunch of pampered whiney little bitches. And don't you go correcting my spelling neither, I know what the red squigleys mean, I just don't care. And another thing.....

 

[WalterSobchak]

You dang kids with your hip-hop music and your internets. Back when I worked the ramp we didn't have any of your magic so-called "wands". We used our own body, like real men. At night they turned on the landing light to see us. I still have no night vision, but it built charecter. Thats the problem with you kids now adays. Yer all a bunch of pampered whiney little bitches. And don't you go correcting my spelling neither, I know what the red squigleys mean, I just don't care. And another thing.....

I think we have a winner!

 

[Speedtape]

yep. mgmt.-mech.-pilot.

on the bathroom wall? thats mature and professional and its obviously true since its on the bathroom wall...

Like they say, "Where's there's smoke, there's fire," and "There's a little bit of truth to everything," and (drum roll please), "No Secret remains Sacred forever!"

Actually, it's most appropriate! You joined a select group when your name was placed on the wall! Some organizations have the "Hall of Fame" and the "Ring of Honor!" We have the "Ring around the Toilets!" and you are a worthy member of that infamous group. You should be proud!

 

[John Pennekamp]

yep. mgmt.-mech.-pilot.

on the bathroom wall? thats mature and professional and its obviously true since its on the bathroom wall...

As I said, your career progressions is regressing. And you're right, your story on the bathroom wall doesn't mean it's true and it's not very mature or professional. It just means none of us like you and all think you're a loser. Maybe it's time to move on again. I hear Airtran's looking for people. Unless you're the one who loaded those O2 generators next to the tires...

 

[homerjdispatch]

As I said, your career progressions is regressing. And you're right, your story on the bathroom wall doesn't mean it's true and it's not very mature or professional. It just means none of us like you and all think you're a loser. Maybe it's time to move on again. I hear Airtran's looking for people. Unless you're the one who loaded those O2 generators next to the tires...

Glad to see you agree that Management and Mechanics are above pilots. Its about time you see the light. (sarcasm intended, dont get your panties in a wad!)

 

[John Pennekamp]

Glad to see you agree that Management and Mechanics are above pilots. Its about time you see the light. (sarcasm intended, dont get your panties in a wad!)

Was there ever any doubt? What I left out is that the janitors are above the dispatchers (don't get your panties in a wad!).