APAAD regrouping to challenge age 60

[Falconjet]

If/when there is another vote at SWA the turn out will be the same IMO. In this forum you have a very vocal group of guys on the outside looking in and see this as a threat to there being hired at SWA or if there on the inside a threat to there upgrade. Yes if it passes your hire date will be pushed back or your upgrade will be delayed a bit but if you look at whats happening at most of the other airlines it isn't a big hurdle, just a hurdle. Also FWIW Paul has a few good years left and is a good man with a purpose!

If you are a Captain you would be foolish not to vote to extend the option of going to age 65. You never know whats going to happen plus you can always quit at 60 or 55 if you wish or cut back on your flying. We are a growth airline and hearing guys complaining about not being able to upgrade in 6 years, well just ask your buddies at brand "X" how long it takes there! Each airline is different. Even if they went to age 65 (IMO which in inevitable) not every Pilot will want to go to that age, myself included! I also fly with plenty of FO's that spent 20+ years in the military. Do you think they would like to extend it to 65? You bet they do. So to think that with a new vote there will be an overwhelming change of SWAPA direction on this issue is very much mistaken! Again this is only my opinion but we will see when it happens. Onward again to 2007! Go gettum Paul!

Captain Jim: I am on the outside looking in to SW but I am not worried about not getting hired there. I am also a 20 year military retired pilot who didn't get into the 121 gig until age 42.

I am also vehemently opposed to any change in the Age 60 rule.

So its not all about what might be happening at SW.

There are still thousands of guys and gals out there on furlough who will be stabbed right in the back by the over 60 guys if this changes. Just as the industry is trying to turn around and these folks are on the cusp of a recall, and there is Mr Asshat himself, the 37 year United Captain, trying to keep a straight face while crying to the Director of the FAA that he will be forced into poverty if he has to retire at age 60. That man ought to be ashamed.

So should any other pilot who reaped the benefits of having everyone ahead of them retire at age 60 so they could get their shot at an upgrade or recall.

All the junior guys want is for the rules to remain constant throughout the game so that they can have every opportunity the guys ahead of them had.

FJ

 

[Flybynite]

I've offered up compromise solutions, but I do not get many responses from those who wish to change the rule. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=88857 I'm not going to champion any change; I'm perfectly happy with the status quo.

So if everyone agreed with your compromise proposal the rule would change? You have quite a high opinion of yourself. No one has to get your approval.

So for months you whine how change would delay furlough recalls, yet at first chance of recall you pass because you will be junior, at a base you might not want. I'm willing to bet you will be promoting the age change rule about the time you turn 58.

 

[Andy]

So if everyone agreed with your compromise proposal the rule would change? You have quite a high opinion of yourself. No one has to get your approval.

So for months you whine how change would delay furlough recalls, yet at first chance of recall you pass because you will be junior, at a base you might not want. I'm willing to bet you will be promoting the age change rule about the time you turn 58.

Obviously, you're another one who wants to stay in the left seat past 60 and is unwilling to concede that it will never garner enough support.

To answer your question:
No, my compromise has to do with being able to get enough of a support base. I will still oppose any change. But if the pro-change crowd wants enough support to get anything passed, they need to figure out how to get a majority of pilots to favor a change. Please keep the rule in effect until I turn 60 and then do whatever you want.

I took a pass because of the seat lock and LCO rules at United. The equipment that I desire was not available to my seniority number until now. Since I will be on mil leave until June 2009, it doesn't matter which base or how junior I am. I want to avoid that three year seat lock and returning to LCO rules that my senior brothers agreed to.
Are you saying that a change in the rule would NOT result in a delay of recalls? Please let me know how exactly you came up with that conclusion. Or do you think that it's fair for the senior pilots to continue to take from the junior pilots, changing the rules when it suits them without regard to the junior pilots who get screwed by the change?

 

[luckytohaveajob]

So if everyone agreed with your compromise proposal the rule would change?

Of course Andy will answer for the rest of this absurd post but the pro change crowd has not entertained any type of compromise. The pro change crowd wants to ram a WINDFALL benefit for themselves down everyones throat and call that fair and right. The pro change crowd is the ones high on themselves, just read any of Paul Emens.

The only compromise I would ever consider other than NOT CHANGING ANYTHING would be one that takes 30 years for this change to go into effect or something to do with all the new ATPs issued after the change. Wanting a fair shake is not being high on myself or proud at all.

The age discrimination is the blantant power grab the near retiring guys are forcing. The fact that an under age 60 pilot must be present in the cockpit with an over 60 guy smacks of hypocrisy and discrimination against those having to carry the water bucket.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

As I said, just a bunch of gutless wonders. No fortitude, no conviction just a bunch of whining children hiding behind the skirts of internet anonymity. It is a casual observation the worst of these guys are regional kids, Southwest or Southwest wannabees, not the non-union folks you are talking about

I have personally spoken to both my Senators and my Congressman's aids concerning this matter and had a continuing dialog that has been very productive in preventing change. I have shown tons of conviction in preventing a change to those I meet in the crew room and on the line.

So SOVT were you a late bloomer and need the extra five years to get a career?

 

[Flybynite]

The age discrimination is the blantant power grab the near retiring guys are forcing. The fact that an under age 60 pilot must be present in the cockpit with an over 60 guy smacks of hypocrisy and discrimination against those having to carry the water bucket.

I'm just gonna assume you are not that naive of the political process. How about those that are capable of maintaining a class 1 be given the opportunity to continue to work? You want to retire at 60, go right ahead, nothing stoppin you. Your choice. You can retire at 50, go for it. Your choice. I just think everyone should have the choice.

So go ahead and use the old tired excuses:

you knew the rules
too many wives
poor financial planning
too many toys
blah, blah, blah

They don't apply. I enjoy my job and want the option to continue. I know that is just too hard to believe.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

I'm just gonna assume you are not that naive of the political process. How about those that are capable of maintaining a class 1 be given the opportunity to continue to work?

By all means continue to work overseas or in a non-part 121 operation.

Fly till you die. But you knew that SWA did not have a pension style retirement the day you hired on. You knew age 60 benefits you in your career. And you knew you had to be ready for your next job or retirement by age 60.

Your poor planning is not my emergency.

And I am not naive about anything. I know a screw job the moment I see it.

 

[FNG_that's me]

For those opposed to the change(self included):

Stay active. If the change happens, APAAD et al will have successfully stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from you pocket. Plus safety implications, the potential of medical standards being raised, loss of b-fund and being punished for retireing at 60.

We need to be fighting this like someone is picking our pockets of a half a million dollars...that's how APAAD is fighting this. And that's what they are motivated to do.

Don't relent, make your voice heard!!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Old news

As far as debate of the issue who cares. Everyone already knows their position. I don't think we have any swing votes out their needing to be convinced.

Fact is APAAD is going to be at it again in 2007. APAAD, SWAPA, and SWA management along with JBLU management is the threat to every pilots career.

Paul Emens is the head of APAAD and the chief instigator. Has everything he done been ethical? Has he acted responsible in his zeal to change the system? SWA pilots know and should do something about it if he has not.

If the SWA pilots and JBLU pilots stand firm on the status quo, the only voice promoting a change will be an obviously biased APAAD.

SWA must have another vote. And as many SWA pilots as possible must participate to make Paul Emens and company clearly convinced that the will of the group is the outcome of the results.

SWA can stop this entire problem.

 

[Andy]

I enjoy my job and want the option to continue. I know that is just too hard to believe.

What you really mean is:
I enjoy my job and want the option to continue in the left seat. I refuse to move back to the right seat. I don't care who suffers due to my greed or how much I compromise the safety of airline operations.