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APAAD regrouping to challenge age 60

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LTHJ,

I think we agree, but it is worth repeating for the masses:

The problem is a minority of guys at SWAPA who are pushing this issue without SWAPA voting on it. The stagnation that will occur at SWA (and others) will be amazing if this gets past. Kiss 6 year upgrades goodbye!!

SWA brothers--I hope you get to vote on this soon and (I believe) then you will have the ammunition you need to collar the SWAPA voice.

ALPA folks, please pressure your block rep to get ALPA to be more vocal and engaged. They are officially opposed(due to the vote last year), but need to be more vocal (IMHO).
Dear FNG,

Paul and a "minority" of pilots within SWAPA have been focused exclusively on Age 60, you are correct. The term "minority" though is a misnomer I believe as it would imply that something less than a majority of SWAPA members had no influence into the direction of SWAPA on the issue. In fact over the last 7 years, SWAPA has had two votes on the issue, both were in the 60-40% range of those voting who supported age 60 changes. I didn't say that 60-40% of all members supported change, just those who bothered to vote. As is always the case, I believe those who were present & didn't vote aren't in a position to complain and that for folks to claim that "SWAPA" is in favor of changing the Age 60 rule would be accurate, based upon the votes....just as it is fair to say an elected official was elected and represents the "will of the people" who voted. Only in contract balloting is participation high enough to make the statement 100% accurate.

However, for the nearly 1500 (5300 on property now) pilots who have been hired since the last vote (2003, same results with about the same level of participation by the general membership) the argument can be made that another vote is needed. That is a very salient point but merely because another vote might occur, I don't believe it represents a seminal shift in how the membership feels about it, at least from those that are polled. I hope those individuals who wish to have another vote pass their thoughts to their elected association officials for actions or take up the cause and petition for a change; all are reasonable options and would be well received by your representatives and executives.

For Paul or anyone to lead a charge on any issue could be construed as a "minority" of a few....most bills in congress or eventual laws are "minority" laws. Most "majorities" are satisfied for others to do the legwork and trudge up the hill. It could be said a "minority" has the right to speak its piece also for if another vote was to occur & the results were the same or even more in favor of change, would you expect those on the minority side to remain silent?

I applaud anyone who has the passion to fight for something, particularly if it is in DC where the obstacles are the greatest to overcome policy/law and pursues it with the zest and zeal Paul has and others. Not all causes are worthy of this passion as those on the other side would argue....so be it but to disparage the individual vs. debating the issue & its merits trivializes the efforts of those who have worked hard in the past for the "majority" when in fact the "majority" was happy to let other "minorities" fight for them. I applaud the proponents of both sides of the arguement and hope the debate will be settled soon in order to remove a divisive issue in the minds of some.
 
SWAPA will no longer support change of age 60 after the leadership change in January. There will be another vote and we all know which way it will go. 99% of FOs and a surprising number of captains are against change.

I hope you are right!! I'm sick of hearing how SWA and Jetlbue are pushing this grandpa crap. Stand up and be heard.
 
If/when there is another vote at SWA the turn out will be the same IMO. In this forum you have a very vocal group of guys on the outside looking in and see this as a threat to there being hired at SWA or if there on the inside a threat to there upgrade. Yes if it passes your hire date will be pushed back or your upgrade will be delayed a bit but if you look at whats happening at most of the other airlines it isn't a big hurdle, just a hurdle. Also FWIW Paul has a few good years left and is a good man with a purpose!

If you are a Captain you would be foolish not to vote to extend the option of going to age 65. You never know whats going to happen plus you can always quit at 60 or 55 if you wish or cut back on your flying. We are a growth airline and hearing guys complaining about not being able to upgrade in 6 years, well just ask your buddies at brand "X" how long it takes there! Each airline is different. Even if they went to age 65 (IMO which in inevitable) not every Pilot will want to go to that age, myself included! I also fly with plenty of FO's that spent 20+ years in the military. Do you think they would like to extend it to 65? You bet they do. So to think that with a new vote there will be an overwhelming change of SWAPA direction on this issue is very much mistaken! Again this is only my opinion but we will see when it happens. Onward again to 2007! Go gettum Paul!
 
Jim Smyth and Fox Hunter,

Have a great retirement. The majority of the SWA pilots will not vote your way, and the democratic Congress will not either. Maybe Rick Santorum will. Wait, he lost. Get those golf clubs ready.
 
This SWA pilot is waiting for the chance to vote. I'm not happy that my dues have been pushing this agenda.
 
Jim Smyth and Fox Hunter,

Have a great retirement. The majority of the SWA pilots will not vote your way, and the democratic Congress will not either. Maybe Rick Santorum will. Wait, he lost. Get those golf clubs ready.

Outside looking in! Enjoy that Lear time!
 
OK....let me try to understand this....

Some SWA guys are saying "See how lousy the upgrades are at the legacies? Vote for Age 65!". How exactly will this help the legacies?

He (or someone) then says "We hire a lot of retired military guys! They ALL want to fly to Age 65!"

Or did I miss something?

OK, I guess I did miss something: you APAAD guys, how come you are not fighting for a change to the air traffic controller age?

They retire at 55 with a full federal pension, for anyone who is wondering. I'm wondering why the guys who actually fly the metal are older and have less pension protection than the controllers.

Instead of increasing the AGE that we can work to, how about increasing the quality of the job we do.

How about an Age 55 for pilots: match it to the ATC guys.
 
"We’re going to lose some good people through retirement. Hell, we already have. A number of those are still working with us, proof positive that it is not “all about me”. Those who have been hosed by this archaic rule are still in the fight, fighting for their fellow pilots.

Those guys are the heroes – those who have lost but continue to fight to right a wrong.

My hat’s off to all of you. It was a pleasure to work with you in ’06. I wish we were having a victory party instead of gathering on the Hill to fight again. But if we succeed, our party will merely be delayed until ’07.

See you in DC!

Paul Emens
Founder, APAAD"

If Mr. Emens is so impressed with these guys contribution, why is he adamant that they be legally barred from returning to the industry? Can a person speak out of both sides of their mouths this loudly? Apparently, Yes. Lets just call it what it is...GREED. Greed and a lifetime of poor financial planning. What's that saying about lying in the bed YOU made?
 
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For all my Southwest brothers who are pro change I ask you one question. What happens when we quit growing and upgrades stop. Will you still be a pro change guy?

The guys hired pre 9/11 upgraded in 4 years. It will take me 6.5 years plus.

Gup
 
Continuing ---


Air Carrier Incident Rates (per 1000 pilots)
Involving Air Carrier Pilots: 1990-1999



samschart.gif


FAA statistics show that air carrier pilots aged 60 and over have a superior safety record as compared to other pilot age groups within either Part 121 or Part 135.
[As reported in Chicago Tribune, July 11, 1999.]



 

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