Any Scoop on what Delta's "New Business Plan" June 12th (Thurs) Announcement Will Be?

[tbkane]

Furloughed for five years at DL??? I was and so were about 400 or more of us. I with 20 others have the longest furlough record at DAL, 5 years 3 months, and that was the longest ever. I am not sure who thinks that DAL didn't have five year furloughs because I am owed some back pay.

 

[macdu]

"Delta management has also stated that their objective is to treat all employees in a fair and equitable manner. "

I think I have heard that line before somewhere, let me think, oh yAA I remember now.

 

[Superpilot92]

Bullsh!t, if NWA a/c are parked then Nalpa pilots should hit the street......end of conversation. I don't care if it is a 2000 hire that gets furloughed ahead of me.....you bring a 40 year old 9 to the table and it gets parked ahead of our 20 yr old 88's......why should I get the axe? I'm tired of politically correct hand holding kumbya BS.....Fences for all of us and let the chips fall where they may.

The scope of the new combined company will be what dictates what happens with the dc9s. Our scope prohibits just parking all of them so it has yet to be seen what happens under the merged carrier. If they are parked after the merger than thats a DAL decision because under a stand alone NWA it wouldnt be an issue right now. You guys are arguing about something that hasnt even happened yet, relax. All the rumors are DAL wants the remaining dc9s as a filler in the current NWA hubs and ATL. DAL is proving right now it wants to reduce the regional feed. The dc9 still has a role in the new combined DAL. Saying a DAL guy shouldn't be effected by aircraft retirements on the NWA side is like saying you have no right to any of the aircraft NWA brings to the table including the 787s that will eventually be here. This is a joint venture and we will prosper or fail as a combined airline.

 

[andyd]

Dude, you are right....I'm just getting frustrated and tired of all this crap already. Hopefully the combined company will keep 'em all, right size the equip for the market/route and continue to axe the capacity out of the 50 seaters and further reducing the ridiculous amount of DCI carriers we have.....flying OUR blockhours. Peace.

 

[Superpilot92]

Dude, you are right....I'm just getting frustrated and tired of all this crap already. Hopefully the combined company will keep 'em all, right size the equip for the market/route and continue to axe the capacity out of the 50 seaters and further reducing the ridiculous amount of DCI carriers we have.....flying OUR blockhours. Peace.

right there with ya. Its frustrating and easy to get bent out of shape but this new airline has a chance of coming out of this looking very good. DAL apparently has every intention of reducing regional feed and both DAL and NWA have ALOT of 50 seat regional jets under the NWA/DAL banners. Anderson has said many times he wants quality and performance to come back up and i think he wants to do that with mainline employees. Since its OUR company who else wants it to be successful more than we do? Regionals are getting a free ride on fuel and profits and i think this will be where that starts to change. The dc9 burns alot of gas but they are paid off and the numbers show that the dc940s and 50's are more cost efficient then the 50 seaters and those models of dc9s will be the majority of the dc9 fleet by the end of the year. more than 50% of the dc9s are going to be DC9-50's. I think they are going to be around for a while until we can get a replacement at mainline. We shall see, in the mean time the best thing we can do is relax and let things take their course. We cant do anything about it either way so why get bent out of shape about stuff that hasnt even happened yet? Cheers :beer:

 

[Cobra17]

Bullsh!t, if NWA a/c are parked then Nalpa pilots should hit the street......end of conversation. I don't care if it is a 2000 hire that gets furloughed ahead of me.....you bring a 40 year old 9 to the table and it gets parked ahead of our 20 yr old 88's......why should I get the axe? I'm tired of politically correct hand holding kumbya BS.....Fences for all of us and let the chips fall where they may.

Fences for the aircraft?

Or the routes?

 

[f9driver]

Lee Moak STFU? I think he knows a bit more of what is going on then you do. Immediate pay parity would be fine. The problem will be when the new Delta starts parking DC9s and 742s, and their pilots start moving down to Compass. Our DL pilots shouldn't have to hit the street for possible parkings of THEIR airplanes. If some of our MD88s etc get parked, then I can understand that.(we are new 777s and 73NGs in the meantime, though) But, our guys shouldn't have to leave if their NWA planes go to the desert. If that isn't addressed in our "joint contract" with regards to scope and minimum mainline planes on the property, then that is ALSO the fault of both MECs.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

How generous of you Lee! You really do have a serious ethics problem.

 

[andyd]

We cant do anything about it either way so why get bent out of shape about stuff that hasnt even happened yet? Cheers :beer:

Agreed 1000%, I just need to stay off of this board....it's not good for my attitude and outlook. Looking forward to beers with ya'll......as long as the mugs are frosty and NOT the ground!

 

[General Lee]

Fences for the aircraft?

Or the routes?

There wouldn't be fences on the routes. I have heard that route planning is salivating thinking about putting a 744 on the ATL-NRT route, and a bunch of other changes to "right size" routes with planes. I don't know how long the DC9s are going to stick around, but they are the closest thing to a 100 seater that we have now, except for the 737-700s that will be doing other types of missions--like Vail and Quito supposedly.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

How generous of you Lee! You really do have a serious ethics problem.

Ethics? Would it be "fair" to bring certain planes to the table that would "likely" be parked first, and then park our guys with them? Ummmmmm, NO. We should fence those DC9s for 5 years. Why? The senior NWA guys probably want to fence the 744s, so why not the DC9s on the bottom? Sounds fair to all of us.

F9driver, explain what you would do to be "ethical" please.....have our guys furloughed on planes they never flew or intended to fly?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Ethics? Would it be "fair" to bring certain planes to the table that would "likely" be parked first, and then park our guys with them? Ummmmmm, NO. We should fence those DC9s for 5 years. Why? The senior NWA guys probably want to fence the 744s, so why not the DC9s on the bottom? Sounds fair to all of us.

F9driver, explain what you would do to be "ethical" please.....have our guys furloughed on planes they never flew or intended to fly?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Give it a rest GL

 

[General Lee]

Give it a rest GL

I hope they aren't parked, but F9 said I wasn't being ethical.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

General,

With all due respect you keep forgetting to include the fact that DAL has had extraordinary pilot attrition.

We HAD a great deal of early retirements, but that's old news already.

Of the approximate 2500 pilots who retired between 2002 and 2005, approximately 1750 would have already retired by Dec 2007, when the law changed to age 65. So you are talking about 750 pilots, of which approximately 250 were on long term disability, so they were not holding a category. Of the approximately 500 pilots remaining, 1/3rd of them would not be in the top 33% of the seniority list today. The total bump from early retirements today is about 350 numbers.

Regardless, you are not merging with the Delta seniority list from 2002, but with the Delta seniority list in 2008, 2009, or whenever the snap shot is taken. Our seniority list is what it is, and it is a reality that you will have to come to grips with, along with the fact that we have significantly more wide bodied aircraft, significantly more 757s and more international flying which will also play a large role in the SLI.

At the end of the day we all seek a fair SLI. If you are on the bottom of the list and all you can hold based strictly on seniority is a DC-9 F/O position, then that's what you hold after the SLI. If you are in the NWA 30th percentile and can hold an A320 CA position, then you'll be behind every Delta pilots who can hold captain on the 767/757, 767ER, 767-400, 777 and possibly the 737-800. If you are in the 25th percentile at DAL and can 767ER captain, then you should be senior to any NWA pilot who, based strictly on his seniority number, can hold the 757 or below.

At NWA we have not. This is the big difference.

Not as big as you think. A bigger factor is that DAL has hired more pilots in the last 12 years than NWA, and DAL is in the middle of explosive international growth.


Do you really think it is fair for an NWA guy to get furloughed when you have a pilot at DL that was just hired back in 2007? Heck, what about any of your pilots that haven't had to endure a 5 year furlough.

We've had pilots on 5+ year furloughs also, the biggest difference between our furloughs and your were that our pilots actually accrued longevity while on furlough. Their expectations are 5 years ahead of their counterparts at NWA because they have 5 additional years of longevity.

 

[cessnapilot]

Ethics? Would it be "fair" to bring certain planes to the table that would "likely" be parked first, and then park our guys with them? Ummmmmm, NO. We should fence those DC9s for 5 years. Why? The senior NWA guys probably want to fence the 744s, so why not the DC9s on the bottom? Sounds fair to all of us.

F9driver, explain what you would do to be "ethical" please.....have our guys furloughed on planes they never flew or intended to fly?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Part of the deal that is so good to both companies is having planes that are paid for that can be parked. With ANY merger out there, planes will be parked. Even if every plane were the same type and perfect for the route. It's just a fact that an airline with 800+ planes isn't going to exist in this market. So in the end, it isn't relevant who brings what planes to the table, its the end business plan that matters. Lets face it, you are nothing but a heavy equipment operator... same as me.

 

[General Lee]

Part of the deal that is so good to both companies is having planes that are paid for that can be parked. With ANY merger out there, planes will be parked. Even if every plane were the same type and perfect for the route. It's just a fact that an airline with 800+ planes isn't going to exist in this market. So in the end, it isn't relevant who brings what planes to the table, its the end business plan that matters. Lets face it, you are nothing but a heavy equipment operator... same as me.

True, but the amount of planes that are LIKELY to be parked are more on your side. That is important. Some planes are not made for a high oil environment. We can only hope they stick around longer than most people think they will. Fingers crossed.....


Bye Bye--General Lee