Another SWA proposal

[CaptWidgeon]

This is my point, if GK does not have to use the arbitration list, then why even go to arbitration ???

if he didn't go to arby and follow through with the process there would be legal ramifications. follow and abide by all the rules and he can do whatever he wants. not to say someone, somewhere wouldn't sue, but if he follows the rules i'd have to guess much more difficult to beat him in court.

not trying to fear monger or anything but this dude is smart. he knows where he can go and what he can and can't do, and the bottom line is he's looking at THE bottom line. family is good and all, but in the end it's business.

 

[atails]

He will honor the process he agreed to... but GK doesn't want this to go to arbys.

The process or PA, just gives Gary a list. He will decide if he wants to use the list. Honestly, the only sure path to our seniority list is via an agreement. Everything else is a craps shoot.

.....

 

[TickTickBoom]

Mr. Kelly is playing all the right cards to keep his options open. I don't think that saying AirTran people don't fit with Southwest Culture would sit well in a lawsuit. Dire economic circumstances is a get out of jail free card. How many pilot contracts and pensions have gone down to that one?

B717's going away as soon as is financially prudent? Can't believe neither side wouldn't see that coming. Imagine the margin bump on the capacity cut and the subtly increased fares. SWA's SL8 says all furloughs go to AirTran until there is no more AirTran. Hmm. Fragmentation language in both contracts say pilots go with planes? Check. No legal grounds there. Less than 50% of assets equals no M-B obligations? That's just juggling the books. Gary is an accountant. Two and two is... My AirTran buddies thought I was stupid for saying get on the 737. Poor bastards.

$70,000 per pilot raise x 1700 pilots? $119,000,000 savings for a one year delay in pay. SWAPA suing after arbitration delays integration a further two years saving SWA another ~$238M+ in pay raises that Citrus MEC says it would rather trade for seniority? Classic. WN and FL pilots in a race to blow their own toes off while Gary Kelly laughs all the way to the bank. House divided for the next Section 6 as well.

Southwest pilots learn what being a blue collar high speed heavy equipment operator really means. AirTran pilots find out that ALPA representation was a bad idea even if they "win". Also find out what "Mess with the bull..." means at SWA. GK will gore you and then stomp your ass. ALPA National may be the only real winner in this. SWA Culture (read productivity) crippled. Shareholder value (GK's real concern)...*poof*! ALPA legal territory gained and damage done while FL pilots are cast aside after what proves at best a hollow victory. ALPA would be stupid to let this go to a vote and miss this opportunity. They even end up looking like the good guy to most. Wow!

I don't think I could come up with a more jacked up situation if I tried. GK and ALPA win (maybe) and all pilots involved lose.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

BOOM is right...for a first post.

 

[GuppyWN]

Looks like the Airtran MEC will vote Saturday 9/3.

May you live in exciting times!

Gup

 

[scoreboardII]

By my count I've been living in exciting times for thirty four years, I want "watch the paint dry boring" for the next 20 or so.

 

[OldManPilot]

By my count I've been living in exciting times for thirty four years, I want "watch the paint dry boring" for the next 20 or so.

+1 (except 10 years)


---

 

[skydash]

Looks like the Airtran MEC will vote Saturday 9/3.

May you live in exciting times!

Gup

You know that's an ancient Chinese curse.........

 

[airlinepilot]

717 sim

When I was in recurrent in DAL several months ago they director of training told us the plan was for the 717 sim to come to Dallas

It has been said many times here that WN F/O's make more than FL CA's.
It's been said here it's "all about the cheese, forget the SLI"
Now you tell me the senior WN F/O's will bid 717 CA, and accept less money just to be a Captain?

I didn't think it was ever a plan to move the 717 sim. The hardball tactic of supporting a lower 717 payrate will come home to roost in SWAPA's nest, as their senior F/O's will be the ones directly affected. This argument of the 717 not being a cost effective airframe seems weak as GK is an accountant by trade, and has had ample time to review it's numbers. If it's such a money loser why would he take the time purchase an airline with leases on 80 airframes extending thru 2017?

 

[airlinepilot]

DING!!!!! We have a WINNER

Most accurate post on this thread

Mr. Kelly is playing all the right cards to keep his options open. I don't think that saying AirTran people don't fit with Southwest Culture would sit well in a lawsuit. Dire economic circumstances is a get out of jail free card. How many pilot contracts and pensions have gone down to that one?

B717's going away as soon as is financially prudent? Can't believe neither side wouldn't see that coming. Imagine the margin bump on the capacity cut and the subtly increased fares. SWA's SL8 says all furloughs go to AirTran until there is no more AirTran. Hmm. Fragmentation language in both contracts say pilots go with planes? Check. No legal grounds there. Less than 50% of assets equals no M-B obligations? That's just juggling the books. Gary is an accountant. Two and two is... My AirTran buddies thought I was stupid for saying get on the 737. Poor bastards.

$70,000 per pilot raise x 1700 pilots? $119,000,000 savings for a one year delay in pay. SWAPA suing after arbitration delays integration a further two years saving SWA another ~$238M+ in pay raises that Citrus MEC says it would rather trade for seniority? Classic. WN and FL pilots in a race to blow their own toes off while Gary Kelly laughs all the way to the bank. House divided for the next Section 6 as well.

Southwest pilots learn what being a blue collar high speed heavy equipment operator really means. AirTran pilots find out that ALPA representation was a bad idea even if they "win". Also find out what "Mess with the bull..." means at SWA. GK will gore you and then stomp your ass. ALPA National may be the only real winner in this. SWA Culture (read productivity) crippled. Shareholder value (GK's real concern)...*poof*! ALPA legal territory gained and damage done while FL pilots are cast aside after what proves at best a hollow victory. ALPA would be stupid to let this go to a vote and miss this opportunity. They even end up looking like the good guy to most. Wow!

I don't think I could come up with a more jacked up situation if I tried. GK and ALPA win (maybe) and all pilots involved lose.

 

[Tripower455]

So, did the AT MEC agree to send the latest proposal out for a vote? Any details?

 

[saabcaptain]

Word is the AirTran MEC has just decided to put this to a membership vote.

 

[OldManPilot]

I hope the MEC realizes that they not only hold the future of the pilot group but ALL AirTran employees with this vote.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

About time our Mec woke up.

 

[OldManPilot]

ALPA: The Pilots Union





September 3, 2011

Today your MEC held a meeting in Atlanta, GA, the majority of which was in closed session. The main topic of discussion was how to proceed with the current seniority list integration proposal from Southwest management. The MEC decided that the seniority list was worth pursuing, and directed the Merger Committee to return to Dallas along with members of the Negotiating Committee to continue discussions toward a complete seniority integration agreement. That does not mean, however, that the pilots have something to vote on just yet. There is still a process that both sides have agreed to follow in order to get an overall package that would be suitable for pilot review.

This process is covered in the Seniority Integration Process Agreement, Section II(d). SWAPA and ALPA will each designate two members of their respective Negotiating Committees to comprise an Implementation Work Group (IWG). The IWG will negotiate an implementation schedule with the companies to include: a. Adjustment of the AirTran-ALPA CBA to reflect the compensation and benefits of the SWAPA CBA; b. Application of the SWAPA CBA to AirTran pilots; c. B717 rates of pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots; and d. International pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots.

As you can see, there is much work left to be done before a complete agreement can be submitted to the membership for ratification. Starting next week, select members of both the Merger committee and the Negotiating committee will begin talks with SWAPA and SWA to finalize the remaining sections of what will become the Seniority List Integration Agreement. Once that work is done, the agreement will be made public and there will be a road show schedule that will allow members to get clearer answers to their questions.

At this time we ask for your patience. That does not mean, however, we don’t want to hear from you. We appreciate what you’ve had to say and encourage you to continue to stay engaged. E-mail your merger-related comments and questions to [email protected], and visit atnmerger.alpa.org for the latest merger news.


In unity,

Your ATN Master Executive Council