An opportunity to regain 76 seat flying bypassed?????

[aewanabe]

To fly bigger airplanes for more money, you have to quit your regional.

And on that, we agree 100 percent. Cheers!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hey Texx....look...another dead horse....

This one might make 10 pages.....

 

[WalterSobchak]

Hey Texx....look...another dead horse....

This one might make 10 pages.....

A dead horse, you say?

 

[JoeMerchant]

A dead horse, you say?

That looks like a scene from the last ALPA BOD....

 

[DoinTime]

That looks like a scene from the last ALPA BOD....

How would you know?

 

[JumpersAway]

AHHAA,
I don't know why we haven't done this sooner. You think mgmt will fight this one, or will they just let us take a larger slice of the pie without wimpering? This is in why mgmt has foisted krap like PBS on the pilot group as a whole. When has mgmt implimented ANYTHING, repeat ANYTHING that benifited pilots that costs money without a contract fight with strike threats? I will answer, never, its just that PBS is such a windfall for the company, and sold as a QOL improvement, the pilots bought it hook, line and sinker.
PBR

PBR- Believe me, I completely understand. No one is willing to burn negotiating capital in order to get this done. Bottom line, the individual MEC's are too short sighted to deal with the short term pain in order to obtain a massive long term gain.

Also, I can't stand the fact that we are looked at as amateurs. We do the same exact job as someone flying for mainline. Same destinations, same weather, same job........period. Truthfully, I'd have to argue that regional flying is more difficult than mainline flying- look at many of the airports we go into. I'd rather deal with LaGuardia than some of the smaller airports we go to in W.V.

Anyway, bottom line is this problem isn't ever going to get fixed. It is what it is- a bunch of internal infighting and bickering that benafits management.

 

[JoeMerchant]

PBR- Believe me, I completely understand. No one is willing to burn negotiating capital in order to get this done. Bottom line, the individual MEC's are too short sighted to deal with the short term pain in order to obtain a massive long term gain.

Also, I can't stand the fact that we are looked at as amateurs. We do the same exact job as someone flying for mainline. Same destinations, same weather, same job........period. Truthfully, I'd have to argue that regional flying is more difficult than mainline flying- look at many of the airports we go into. I'd rather deal with LaGuardia than some of the smaller airports we go to in W.V.

Anyway, bottom line is this problem isn't ever going to get fixed. It is what it is- a bunch of internal infighting and bickering that benafits management.

Your post is dead on.....But even you think regional pilots should just be "stapled" to the bottom. Why should a 25 year regional pilot who works harder, is paid more, and has more time off....be stapled to the bottom of a 2 year mainline pilot? It appears that even we regional pilots think less of ourselves.....

In the end we will continue to beat this dead horse and remain divided.....That will cost everyone.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

How would you know?

I've seen enough ALPA functions behind the scenes to know that dead horses are the most common result.....

In 1999, I attended a "small jet bargaining conference" in Herndon. Tom Wycor attended as he was the new BSIC (Bi-Lateral Scope Impact Committee) Chairman. I asked him one morning if he had read the 1995 and 1996 scope committee reports. He said "No I haven't".....That was when I realized that this was all for show....Much like the TSA screening...it is political eyewash to make it look like things are being done.....

We will be beating this dead horse as long as we have multiple groups competing for flying....

 

[Jon Rivoli]

if keeping 76 seat jets at regional rates boosts my mainline scale I am ok with that.

This is the kind of thinking that is sinking the profession. There is no unity at ALPA or anywhere, even at a given carrier. The pecking order mentioned in post #2 is real and it is human nature to look down upon and denigrate those we have wronged to make ourselves feel better for having done so. They are stuck flying those little airplanes because they are crappy pilots and couldn't pass the interview, not because I voted to outsource those jobs and closed the door on their career advancement.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

To fly bigger airplanes for more money, you have to quit your regional.

No, not any more. You can depend on senior pilots at legacies to continue the above attitude. Stay were you are and in no time you will be flying 100 seats. But, when you are jumpseating expect a lecture from these same senior pilots on how YOU are destroying the profession.

Nowadays, the sucker is the Regional lifer who quits to go fly for a legacy, chasing the dream. I know former SkyWest pilots that are now furloughed FOR THE SECOND TIME. The schedules that I fly are the 737/ Airbus schedules of 7 years ago. Quit and go to a legacy and expect at least one furlough; enjoy the benefits of juniority again; a decade or more as an FO flying with some very unhappy Captains who have seen their careers decimated; and when you do eventually upgrade, more juniority, maybe for the rest of your career. But hey, you're flying a Boeing making the big bucks.

I haven't move up a single number in four or five months and only move up about 10 for the year. I think most of us have figured this game out. So my career earnings will be less, there is more to life than money. I fly a Canadair instead of a Boeing, so what. If I could make $100K a year flying a Super Cub I'd jump at the chance.

I'm 42, I make over $100k, I get 16 days off a month and am never away from home more than two nights a week. I also like the flying that I do and the people that I work with. The big money at the legacies is flying internation, two hours and I need to piss and stretch my legs. If I were in my twenties I would certainly feel differently but, this is how thing are.

I think I can be content flying 100 seaters here at SkyWest. Thanks ALPA.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

There is always the over 100% pay raise route:beer:

 

[sweptback]

Your post is dead on.....But even you think regional pilots should just be "stapled" to the bottom. Why should a 25 year regional pilot who works harder, is paid more, and has more time off....be stapled to the bottom of a 2 year mainline pilot? It appears that even we regional pilots think less of ourselves.....

In the end we will continue to beat this dead horse and remain divided.....That will cost everyone.....

From your perspective, you want to be integrated fairly. But let's say you went to Delta in the late 90s, dodged the furloughs, and now have some decent seniority. Don't you think you'd be one of the loudest voices in favor of a staple?

 

[PuffDriver]

Your post is dead on.....But even you think regional pilots should just be "stapled" to the bottom. Why should a 25 year regional pilot who works harder, is paid more, and has more time off....be stapled to the bottom of a 2 year mainline pilot? It appears that even we regional pilots think less of ourselves.....

In the end we will continue to beat this dead horse and remain divided.....That will cost everyone.....

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Waaahhhhhhhhhh. I ain't gett'in my love from the big boys. Waaaahhhhhhhh.

 

[filejw]

Right, explain this to me.......Ive been industry saavy for over 20 years now.....Why did NWA and Delta NOT capitalize on the opportunity to recoup 76 seat flying with the Compass flying???? Seriously, this could have opened the door to re-integrating some of the Comair, ASA, Compass and various DCI 76 seat flying to bolster the pay scale to yesteryear and reverse/reallocate the industry slide to what we all bitch about.....Is the NEW Delta too proud??????? Shame on you guys if so, you now have NOTHING to bitch about if this is the case,,,,,,Discuss....this is to hear the opinions, not flame.

According to an ALPA rep its because the contract wasn't fully opened to a section six negotiation, what ever that is.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is the kind of thinking that is sinking the profession. There is no unity at ALPA or anywhere, even at a given carrier. The pecking order mentioned in post #2 is real and it is human nature to look down upon and denigrate those we have wronged to make ourselves feel better for having done so. They are stuck flying those little airplanes because they are crappy pilots and couldn't pass the interview, not because I voted to outsource those jobs and closed the door on their career advancement.



No, not any more. You can depend on senior pilots at legacies to continue the above attitude. Stay were you are and in no time you will be flying 100 seats. But, when you are jumpseating expect a lecture from these same senior pilots on how YOU are destroying the profession.

Nowadays, the sucker is the Regional lifer who quits to go fly for a legacy, chasing the dream. I know former SkyWest pilots that are now furloughed FOR THE SECOND TIME. The schedules that I fly are the 737/ Airbus schedules of 7 years ago. Quit and go to a legacy and expect at least one furlough; enjoy the benefits of juniority again; a decade or more as an FO flying with some very unhappy Captains who have seen their careers decimated; and when you do eventually upgrade, more juniority, maybe for the rest of your career. But hey, you're flying a Boeing making the big bucks.

I haven't move up a single number in four or five months and only move up about 10 for the year. I think most of us have figured this game out. So my career earnings will be less, there is more to life than money. I fly a Canadair instead of a Boeing, so what. If I could make $100K a year flying a Super Cub I'd jump at the chance.

I'm 42, I make over $100k, I get 16 days off a month and am never away from home more than two nights a week. I also like the flying that I do and the people that I work with. The big money at the legacies is flying internation, two hours and I need to piss and stretch my legs. If I were in my twenties I would certainly feel differently but, this is how thing are.

I think I can be content flying 100 seaters here at SkyWest. Thanks ALPA.

Absolutely correct...Why stop at 100 seats....Let's keep going.....We didn't deal out the lemons...so don't get made if we make lemonade....

 

[JoeMerchant]

From your perspective, you want to be integrated fairly. But let's say you went to Delta in the late 90s, dodged the furloughs, and now have some decent seniority. Don't you think you'd be one of the loudest voices in favor of a staple?

Who's perspective do you expect me to have? He has his and I have mine....I believe my perspective is more "fair".....

This whole issue is purely academic at this point...The single list ship sailed a long time ago...I was merely pointing out to JumpersAway that even he seems to be selling himself short by just accepting a staple even though he understands that we do the same job.....