An opportunity to regain 76 seat flying bypassed?????

[JumpersAway]

AHHAA,
I don't know why we haven't done this sooner. You think mgmt will fight this one, or will they just let us take a larger slice of the pie without wimpering? This is in why mgmt has foisted krap like PBS on the pilot group as a whole. When has mgmt implimented ANYTHING, repeat ANYTHING that benifited pilots that costs money without a contract fight with strike threats? I will answer, never, its just that PBS is such a windfall for the company, and sold as a QOL improvement, the pilots bought it hook, line and sinker.
PBR

PBR- Believe me, I completely understand. No one is willing to burn negotiating capital in order to get this done. Bottom line, the individual MEC's are too short sighted to deal with the short term pain in order to obtain a massive long term gain.

Also, I can't stand the fact that we are looked at as amateurs. We do the same exact job as someone flying for mainline. Same destinations, same weather, same job........period. Truthfully, I'd have to argue that regional flying is more difficult than mainline flying- look at many of the airports we go into. I'd rather deal with LaGuardia than some of the smaller airports we go to in W.V.

Anyway, bottom line is this problem isn't ever going to get fixed. It is what it is- a bunch of internal infighting and bickering that benafits management.

 

[JoeMerchant]

PBR- Believe me, I completely understand. No one is willing to burn negotiating capital in order to get this done. Bottom line, the individual MEC's are too short sighted to deal with the short term pain in order to obtain a massive long term gain.

Also, I can't stand the fact that we are looked at as amateurs. We do the same exact job as someone flying for mainline. Same destinations, same weather, same job........period. Truthfully, I'd have to argue that regional flying is more difficult than mainline flying- look at many of the airports we go into. I'd rather deal with LaGuardia than some of the smaller airports we go to in W.V.

Anyway, bottom line is this problem isn't ever going to get fixed. It is what it is- a bunch of internal infighting and bickering that benafits management.

Your post is dead on.....But even you think regional pilots should just be "stapled" to the bottom. Why should a 25 year regional pilot who works harder, is paid more, and has more time off....be stapled to the bottom of a 2 year mainline pilot? It appears that even we regional pilots think less of ourselves.....

In the end we will continue to beat this dead horse and remain divided.....That will cost everyone.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

How would you know?

I've seen enough ALPA functions behind the scenes to know that dead horses are the most common result.....

In 1999, I attended a "small jet bargaining conference" in Herndon. Tom Wycor attended as he was the new BSIC (Bi-Lateral Scope Impact Committee) Chairman. I asked him one morning if he had read the 1995 and 1996 scope committee reports. He said "No I haven't".....That was when I realized that this was all for show....Much like the TSA screening...it is political eyewash to make it look like things are being done.....

We will be beating this dead horse as long as we have multiple groups competing for flying....

 

[Jon Rivoli]

if keeping 76 seat jets at regional rates boosts my mainline scale I am ok with that.

This is the kind of thinking that is sinking the profession. There is no unity at ALPA or anywhere, even at a given carrier. The pecking order mentioned in post #2 is real and it is human nature to look down upon and denigrate those we have wronged to make ourselves feel better for having done so. They are stuck flying those little airplanes because they are crappy pilots and couldn't pass the interview, not because I voted to outsource those jobs and closed the door on their career advancement.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

To fly bigger airplanes for more money, you have to quit your regional.

No, not any more. You can depend on senior pilots at legacies to continue the above attitude. Stay were you are and in no time you will be flying 100 seats. But, when you are jumpseating expect a lecture from these same senior pilots on how YOU are destroying the profession.

Nowadays, the sucker is the Regional lifer who quits to go fly for a legacy, chasing the dream. I know former SkyWest pilots that are now furloughed FOR THE SECOND TIME. The schedules that I fly are the 737/ Airbus schedules of 7 years ago. Quit and go to a legacy and expect at least one furlough; enjoy the benefits of juniority again; a decade or more as an FO flying with some very unhappy Captains who have seen their careers decimated; and when you do eventually upgrade, more juniority, maybe for the rest of your career. But hey, you're flying a Boeing making the big bucks.

I haven't move up a single number in four or five months and only move up about 10 for the year. I think most of us have figured this game out. So my career earnings will be less, there is more to life than money. I fly a Canadair instead of a Boeing, so what. If I could make $100K a year flying a Super Cub I'd jump at the chance.

I'm 42, I make over $100k, I get 16 days off a month and am never away from home more than two nights a week. I also like the flying that I do and the people that I work with. The big money at the legacies is flying internation, two hours and I need to piss and stretch my legs. If I were in my twenties I would certainly feel differently but, this is how thing are.

I think I can be content flying 100 seaters here at SkyWest. Thanks ALPA.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

There is always the over 100% pay raise route:beer:

 

[sweptback]

Your post is dead on.....But even you think regional pilots should just be "stapled" to the bottom. Why should a 25 year regional pilot who works harder, is paid more, and has more time off....be stapled to the bottom of a 2 year mainline pilot? It appears that even we regional pilots think less of ourselves.....

In the end we will continue to beat this dead horse and remain divided.....That will cost everyone.....

From your perspective, you want to be integrated fairly. But let's say you went to Delta in the late 90s, dodged the furloughs, and now have some decent seniority. Don't you think you'd be one of the loudest voices in favor of a staple?

 

[PuffDriver]

Your post is dead on.....But even you think regional pilots should just be "stapled" to the bottom. Why should a 25 year regional pilot who works harder, is paid more, and has more time off....be stapled to the bottom of a 2 year mainline pilot? It appears that even we regional pilots think less of ourselves.....

In the end we will continue to beat this dead horse and remain divided.....That will cost everyone.....

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Waaahhhhhhhhhh. I ain't gett'in my love from the big boys. Waaaahhhhhhhh.

 

[filejw]

Right, explain this to me.......Ive been industry saavy for over 20 years now.....Why did NWA and Delta NOT capitalize on the opportunity to recoup 76 seat flying with the Compass flying???? Seriously, this could have opened the door to re-integrating some of the Comair, ASA, Compass and various DCI 76 seat flying to bolster the pay scale to yesteryear and reverse/reallocate the industry slide to what we all bitch about.....Is the NEW Delta too proud??????? Shame on you guys if so, you now have NOTHING to bitch about if this is the case,,,,,,Discuss....this is to hear the opinions, not flame.

According to an ALPA rep its because the contract wasn't fully opened to a section six negotiation, what ever that is.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is the kind of thinking that is sinking the profession. There is no unity at ALPA or anywhere, even at a given carrier. The pecking order mentioned in post #2 is real and it is human nature to look down upon and denigrate those we have wronged to make ourselves feel better for having done so. They are stuck flying those little airplanes because they are crappy pilots and couldn't pass the interview, not because I voted to outsource those jobs and closed the door on their career advancement.



No, not any more. You can depend on senior pilots at legacies to continue the above attitude. Stay were you are and in no time you will be flying 100 seats. But, when you are jumpseating expect a lecture from these same senior pilots on how YOU are destroying the profession.

Nowadays, the sucker is the Regional lifer who quits to go fly for a legacy, chasing the dream. I know former SkyWest pilots that are now furloughed FOR THE SECOND TIME. The schedules that I fly are the 737/ Airbus schedules of 7 years ago. Quit and go to a legacy and expect at least one furlough; enjoy the benefits of juniority again; a decade or more as an FO flying with some very unhappy Captains who have seen their careers decimated; and when you do eventually upgrade, more juniority, maybe for the rest of your career. But hey, you're flying a Boeing making the big bucks.

I haven't move up a single number in four or five months and only move up about 10 for the year. I think most of us have figured this game out. So my career earnings will be less, there is more to life than money. I fly a Canadair instead of a Boeing, so what. If I could make $100K a year flying a Super Cub I'd jump at the chance.

I'm 42, I make over $100k, I get 16 days off a month and am never away from home more than two nights a week. I also like the flying that I do and the people that I work with. The big money at the legacies is flying internation, two hours and I need to piss and stretch my legs. If I were in my twenties I would certainly feel differently but, this is how thing are.

I think I can be content flying 100 seaters here at SkyWest. Thanks ALPA.

Absolutely correct...Why stop at 100 seats....Let's keep going.....We didn't deal out the lemons...so don't get made if we make lemonade....

 

[JoeMerchant]

From your perspective, you want to be integrated fairly. But let's say you went to Delta in the late 90s, dodged the furloughs, and now have some decent seniority. Don't you think you'd be one of the loudest voices in favor of a staple?

Who's perspective do you expect me to have? He has his and I have mine....I believe my perspective is more "fair".....

This whole issue is purely academic at this point...The single list ship sailed a long time ago...I was merely pointing out to JumpersAway that even he seems to be selling himself short by just accepting a staple even though he understands that we do the same job.....

 

[PuffDriver]

From Jon Rivoli:

I'm 42, I make over $100k, I get 16 days off a month and am never away from home more than two nights a week. I also like the flying that I do and the people that I work with. The big money at the legacies is flying internation, two hours and I need to piss and stretch my legs.

Yawn.

Another regional pilot who has the whole industry figured out. Never mind that you are dead wrong on legacies. I am younger than you, have better work rules, make more, have more vacation, work the same, could work much less if I chose.

BTW, even international pilots stretch their legs every couple of hours.

But at least you are impressive in your own mind.

 

[Raoul Duke]

If he is happy who are you to question it. give it a rest

 

[PuffDriver]

If he is happy who are you to question it. give it a rest

Was anyone talking to you??? Guys who try and brag about their wages, days off, better-life-than-this-guy need bitch-slapped. He got it.

 

[DoinTime]

Guys who try and brag about their wages, days off, better-life-than-this-guy need bitch-slapped.

Kinda like what you just did? You've got a bitch-slap coming, mister.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Kinda like what you just did? You've got a bitch-slap coming, mister.

He sure does. I gather from his other posts that he is a NW/Delta. So if he's younger than me, he's about to spend a few years on furlough. But hey, if he's young he'll do great in the long run and may even upgrade around 2028. I'm happy, he's happy. It's all good.

Guys who try and brag about their wages, days off, better-life-than-this-guy

Didn't mean to sould like I was bragging, just saying that what I have is good enough for me. Sure senior pilots at legacies have a lot more, but that is not an option open to me or a lot of other guy's.

 

[MJ42]

He sure does. I gather from his other posts that he is a NW/Delta. So if he's younger than me, he's about to spend a few years on furlough. But hey, if he's young he'll do great in the long run and may even upgrade around 2028. I'm happy, he's happy. It's all good.

1) He is original DAL (not former NW).
2) I think he is a Captain already.
3) We have no plans to furlough. Not saying it won't happen, but right now it doesn't look like it. If anything, 50 seater will be cut a lot(at least that's the latest word). May mean more DC-9 flying, may mean trading 50's for 76 seat flying(not 1 for 1). But we are not talking furlough!

 

[PuffDriver]

Kinda like what you just did? You've got a bitch-slap coming, mister.

..and do you think there was a reason behind it? Think about it, sparky, and get back to me.

 

[PuffDriver]

1) He is original DAL (not former NW).
2) I think he is a Captain already.
3) We have no plans to furlough. Not saying it won't happen, but right now it doesn't look like it. If anything, 50 seater will be cut a lot(at least that's the latest word). May mean more DC-9 flying, may mean trading 50's for 76 seat flying(not 1 for 1). But we are not talking furlough!

Well said, sir. ACL can probably fill us in better than I.

 

[PuffDriver]

He sure does. I gather from his other posts that he is a NW/Delta. So if he's younger than me, he's about to spend a few years on furlough. But hey, if he's young he'll do great in the long run and may even upgrade around 2028. I'm happy, he's happy. It's all good.

Sorry to disappoint you. Wrong on all accounts, except the NWA/Delta. Been captain for quite a while, longer than you I venture to guess.

Didn't mean to sould like I was bragging, just saying that what I have is good enough for me.

Oh really? then would you care to explain these quotes--also from you.

Stay were you are and in no time you will be flying 100 seats.

I think I can be content flying 100 seaters here at SkyWest

You don't have 100 seaters, and it sounds as if you not only would be content with what you want, but with what others have as well. THAT mentality is why you are, and will, be relegated to your regional status--right there with the merchant. I am glad that you are content with where you are. I just have to wonder if it is going to start going away. <hint> It is.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

How would you know?

Take a look at the result of his lawsuit and career!:laugh: :laugh: