An open letter to USAPA Members

[Superbird]

Got it. So business decisions are made with USAPA in mind

And my other questions?

It is what it is. The world is passing usapa by while they pound the drum of perceived leverage. Binding Arbitration settled our dispute. You can pontificate all you want after the fact, but its over.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You seriously don't think that your guy who was still in training as a new hire, I think his name was Dave O., really wouldn't get an "improvement" by being the Captain to a 17 year guy.

What if they were in the same upgrade class? You do know that is the most likely scenario, don't you? It sounds like you really don't know why you are fighting, but are afraid to be perceived as disloyal if you don't valiantly promise to fight to the last man.

This tribal tunnel vision is what has crippled this pilot group and is the fuel that allows USAPA to remain in power.

 

[Superbird]

What if they were in the same upgrade class? You do know that is the most likely scenario, don't you? It sounds like you really don't know why you are fighting, but are afraid to be perceived as disloyal if you don't valiantly promise to fight to the last man.

This tribal tunnel vision is what has crippled this pilot group and is the fuel that allows USAPA to remain in power.

Apathy, Greed and the Boogey Man make good bedfellows for usapa supporters.

 

[Turtle21]

It is what it is. The world is passing usapa by while they pound the drum of perceived leverage. Binding Arbitration settled our dispute. You can pontificate all you want after the fact, but its over.

It was over years ago.

 

[TWA Dude]

FYour premise is flawed about fences protecting against out of seniority furlough. It is happening now as we speak through the use of unintended fences.

I'm talking about when the pilot integration is complete.

I couldn't disagree more. 1 day does not a career make.

By necessity one day must be chosen and what better date than when a merger is consummated?

My point was that the USA/AWA merger is unique in that we CAN go back and see what the future held in relation to the award--albeit slightly jaded. The business plan going forward is all East. LAS: closed. Furloughs: West side. Hiring: East side.

I guess you didn't understand what I wrote. The US Airways plan, such as it was, before the merger was to continue shrinking. They were in a self-financed Chap 11 with no plan of reorganization and most analysts expected liquidation shortly. The merger changed that plan so to look at Parker's decisions post-merger and say "See, I told you so" is very disingenuous.

Yet, at the same time, you unwittingly justify that which you condemn--the East actions.

The heck I do. I don't blame them for not liking the Nic list (though their inflated sense of entitlement contributed to their unrealistic expectations) but nothing justifies their attempt to cram down their wet-dream list on the West.

I throw out that perhaps the award was so egregious as to trigger this response.

And I throw it right back at you. People with integrity live up to their commitments. We agreed to let a neutral decide and he did. It really is that simple and I don't buy any excuses, period.

I've seen merged pilot groups so angry with each other that fights break out, yet they merge as life moves on.

Did I mention I flew for TWA? The OZ/TW merger still is a point of contention. Icahn made sure the OZ pilots were denied their right to arbitration. The APA and AMR made sure the TWA pilots were denied arbitration. See a pattern here?

I can't tell you how proud I was to experience a fair integration process between AWA and USAir. We met to negotiate as equals. Both sides were able to present our cases to the arbitrator. I had no idea what the result would be but I knew it would be final.

Are they just so much more reasonable? Are the East pilots just so much more unreasonable? I think those are fair questions.

Lemme ask you: was it reasonable that the APA got to dictate the seniority integration with TWA? Is it reasonable that the East is trying to do the exact same thing to the West? No double standards, now.

First, I am not trying to convince you of anything. It is merely my opinion.

Well, I am trying to convince you of something: that DOH as a fixed integration scheme for pilots is far more likely to be unfair than having neutrals evaluate every merger on its own.

Second, in all likelihood, neutrals will have to be involved for fence process. That is where the inequities of DOH would have to be tempered appropriately.

Once again when it comes to furloughs fences are no substitute.

 

[Turtle21]

I'm talking about when the pilot integration is complete.
By necessity one day must be chosen and what better date than when a merger is consummated?I guess you didn't understand what I wrote. The US Airways plan, such as it was, before the merger was to continue shrinking. They were in a self-financed Chap 11 with no plan of reorganization and most analysts expected liquidation shortly. The merger changed that plan so to look at Parker's decisions post-merger and say "See, I told you so" is very disingenuous.
The heck I do. I don't blame them for not liking the Nic list (though their inflated sense of entitlement contributed to their unrealistic expectations) but nothing justifies their attempt to cram down their wet-dream list on the West.And I throw it right back at you. People with integrity live up to their commitments. We agreed to let a neutral decide and he did. It really is that simple and I don't buy any excuses, period.
Did I mention I flew for TWA? The OZ/TW merger still is a point of contention. Icahn made sure the OZ pilots were denied their right to arbitration. The APA and AMR made sure the TWA pilots were denied arbitration. See a pattern here?

I can't tell you how proud I was to experience a fair integration process between AWA and USAir. We met to negotiate as equals. Both sides were able to present our cases to the arbitrator. I had no idea what the result would be but I knew it would be final.Lemme ask you: was it reasonable that the APA got to dictate the seniority integration with TWA? Is it reasonable that the East is trying to do the exact same thing to the West? No double standards, now.
Well, I am trying to convince you of something: that DOH as a fixed integration scheme for pilots is far more likely to be unfair than having neutrals evaluate every merger on its own.Once again when it comes to furloughs fences are no substitute.

No need for looong posts. It was over years ago.

 

[RUhiring?]

I didn't read through every one of these posts, so if it was addressed, let me know and I'll look back. But.....where do the furloughed West pilots go when/if a merger is done? Do they get stapled? How do they defend their own position (furloughed), and defend the Nic?

 

[abefly]

I didn't read through every one of these posts, so if it was addressed, let me know and I'll look back. But.....where do the furloughed West pilots go when/if a merger is done? Do they get stapled? How do they defend their own position (furloughed), and defend the Nic?

They go wherever their at on the NIC. They should have never been furloughed.

 

[TWA Dude]

A little birdie just told me the MOU the APA just approved contains language from Dug stipulating the Nicolau list will be used. And that's why USAPA is in such a tizzy in CLT right now.

 

[charlie2]

A little birdie just told me the MOU the APA just approved contains language from Dug stipulating the Nicolau list will be used. And that's why USAPA is in such a tizzy in CLT right now.

Good for you guys! If AA makes the same mistake as you guys did and buys US Airways then you'll get a seniority list in a couple years.