An open letter to USAPA Members

[Superbird]

Vote on what? You don't think that our AWA management has offered us anything respectable do you?

Usapa has been unreasonable in its offers to the company. In the name of delay of course. Have you even read usapas demands or are you too busy mowing the grass at your rental property?

 

[General Lee]

Hi TWA Dude! I don't think seniorty should ever "improve" due to our so respected managements decisions.

Sorry Charlie, but the Westies will get what they were awarded legally. Your group ducking their obligations just delays the inevitable. Again, don't sign up for something if you aren't going to follow through. Your MEC chair did that for you. If you want higher pay, a merger with AA, it's all gotta go through the NIC. And anyone know why Parker and the creditor committee lawyer met with your USAPA head just prior to Xmas? Maybe to tell him what he NEEDED to do coming up here? Just a guess.... Sorry Charlie...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Superbird]

1) I don't think you or I have an idea of why there hasn't been a contract to vote on, save the fact that USAirways will not even negotiate because of the threat of lawsuit from the West. American only recently got an agreement due to hardcore line in the sand for industry leading and scope. How do you know that this would NOT be the case for the next impediment to a joint contract, even with NIC concurrence. You don't

2) USAPA has not failed me. I am not a member. I did see the results of their last bid, and there was dramatic movement upward. Were it not for self interest legislation in the form of age 65, a whole other argument, I imagine the East side, and their min fleet and block rules would have had dramatic forward movement 5 years ago. But that is conjecture, as is your entire post.

Usapa knows nothing about unity. Unless of course you are part of the inner circle of usapa cronies who are benefitting from delay. Therefore usapa has no leverage. In turn usapa harms EVERY PILOT it pretends to represent. Fail.

 

[PuffDriver]

Usapa knows nothing about unity. Unless of course you are part of the inner circle of usapa cronies who are benefitting from delay. Therefore usapa has no leverage. In turn usapa harms EVERY PILOT it pretends to represent. Fail.

You will find these inner circles at all airlines. They are not unique to USAPA. As i said, I saw the last bid result from the east side. Junior pilots are moving up, perhaps off of reserve. That is paramount to some people. More junior pilots are making captain. That floats some peoples' boats. Some people, no doubt, feel the same way you do on the east side in that their pay is low.

Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has their 1 thing. Your leverage statement can be said of any number of pilots at any number of airlines. Just because you are not benefitting from delay, or the pay rates are not benefitting from the delay does not mean your trash is not somebody else's treasure.

All in the eye of the beholder.

 

[TWA Dude]

You seriously don't think that your guy who was still in training as a new hire, I think his name was Dave O., really wouldn't get an "improvement" by being the Captain to a 17 year guy.

You said before you understood the difference between seniority and longevity yet you keep proving you don't. That "17 year guy" was the junior FO on the property at the time of the merger. Therefore, it's logical that he be placed near the junior FO at AWA. In any case, I didn't make that decision, the arbitrator did. He's neutral, I'm not.

Come on at least say the truth it was a "windfall for AWA".

If you admit in 2005 USAirways was days from liquidation and the merger saved it which gave YOU a windfall -- then I'll admit AWA also got a windfall. Two windfalls that cancel each other out.

If it wasn't why do you want it so badly and why are us eastholes fighting it so badly?

Once, again, you can't defend your behavior so you try to deflect and obfuscate. If you hadn't found a lawyer to tell you what you wanted to hear your fight would've ended with the dismissal of the 2007 suit your MEC filed.

 

[TWA Dude]

Not only does DOH make it more straight forward, but it also saves money.

Who cares?

You can temper the "career expectations" via fences.

Furloughs go by strict reverse-seniority order thus fences are no protection. Fences have a place but nothing is more important than the seniority number.

I can honestly say that i want fairness as well. Your definition and my definition are different. A mediator's definition is altogether different, and based on two flawed premised, what would have happened and what will happen.

If I understand you correctly, you think the "flaw" is that career expectations vary too much so should be ignored. I don't see that as a flaw. By necessity, there's a snapshot date and conditions are evaluated based on that point in time. Picking one date is very objective indeed. The past is irrelevant, the future is irrelevant, but today we can see who stands to gain more through the merger. Nicolau was very clear in explaining that.

With AWA/USA we have actually had the luxury to be able to look back at a seniority list and critique its evolution, with what has happened since with regard to two separate pilot groups operating under two separate agreements, and what has happened to the airline since from a business standpoint. Of course, the events have not been completely pure, but nonetheless it is a first and valuable lessons can be learned from it, IMO.

No way. You can't look at what's happened since the merger and make any conclusions about career expectations. When there's a merger two airlines become one NEW airline and everything from that point forward is completely different.

I don't necessarily agree that an accepted NIC list would have resulted in a contract any sooner--reference how long it took American.

Perhaps you're unaware that in the summer of 2007 three-quarters of the sections were complete in joint contract negotiations. The airline was profitable and Parker was motivated to complete a CBA and get his synergies. Our Nego Committee was predicting a TA by autumn. The East pulled out of talks in a snit and have been loving LOA 93 ever since. (I assume the love it because they certainly haven't been trying to get a new contract since.)

Still, you're not making any convincing argument for DOH being more fair than having neutrals decide.

 

[charlie2]

You said before you understood the difference between seniority and longevity yet you keep proving you don't. That "17 year guy" was the junior FO on the property at the time of the merger. Therefore, it's logical that he be placed near the junior FO at AWA. In any case, I didn't make that decision, the arbitrator did. He's neutral, I'm not.If you admit in 2005 USAirways was days from liquidation and the merger saved it which gave YOU a windfall -- then I'll admit AWA also got a windfall. Two windfalls that cancel each other out.
Once, again, you can't defend your behavior so you try to deflect and obfuscate. If you hadn't found a lawyer to tell you what you wanted to hear your fight would've ended with the dismissal of the 2007 suit your MEC filed.

So because some greedy over paid people (AWA management) got lucky that is the reason a seasoned professional pilot has to be the FO of youngsters. This is why AWA is still working under an ALPA contract. NO! We will fight it until the end...keep saying integrity. I don't want your kid to be my captain.

 

[Superbird]

So because some greedy over paid people (AWA management) got lucky that is the reason a seasoned professional pilot has to be the FO of youngsters. This is why AWA is still working under an ALPA contract. NO! We will fight it until the end...keep saying integrity. I don't want your kid to be my captain.

Integrity matters Marine or have you forgotten?

How many Captains do you fly with that are younger than you now?

How much LOS did you have when you were furloughed?

As each case "turns on its own merits" so do career expectations at airlines. Remind me what you expectations were when you were mowing lawns and changing locks.

 

[Superbird]

You will find these inner circles at all airlines. They are not unique to USAPA. As i said, I saw the last bid result from the east side. Junior pilots are moving up, perhaps off of reserve. That is paramount to some people. More junior pilots are making captain. That floats some peoples' boats. Some people, no doubt, feel the same way you do on the east side in that their pay is low.

Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has their 1 thing. Your leverage statement can be said of any number of pilots at any number of airlines. Just because you are not benefitting from delay, or the pay rates are not benefitting from the delay does not mean your trash is not somebody else's treasure.

All in the eye of the beholder.

East pilots will never regain what they've lost the last five years. Parker is paying them with monies they've given up for ego.

 

[TWA Dude]

So because some greedy over paid people (AWA management) got lucky that is the reason a seasoned professional pilot has to be the FO of youngsters.

No, it's because YOU got lucky.

This is why AWA is still working under an ALPA contract.

Um, no, we're still working under our current contract because you won't let us get a new one.

keep saying integrity.

Wow, you don't even try to justify your treachery anymore. I'm glad I'm not like you.

I don't want your kid to be my captain.

I'll let you know when I give a crap about who you want to fly with. When I'm your captain you'll be free to no-fly me. (Real airlines have no-fly lists, including AA.)