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An oil crash???

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jetflyer said:
Good luck world, (I used to say good luck Delta)

Jet
Look at the positive side of this thing, when SHTF...

Homies will not be cruising the hood in their Benzos, perp'n drive by shootings no mo.

Fat middle-aged white men will not be running around on their overpriced Harleys, saving lives with their loud pipes.

Airline crashes will be a thing of the past.

No more Exxon Valdez type oil spills.

The US will have run out reasons to go to the Middle East to sort things out.

The ozone hole will grow shut.

All those snot nosed punks at the auto parts store will be out on their asses.

No more "road rage".

Lawyers will starve to death...or be rendered into soap, leather jackets, and beef jerky...whatever. What would you pay to have a wine skin made from a real lawyer’s bladder?

No more obnoxious assault pickup trucks and SUV’s to contend with.

Chopping wood and tending to hand grown vegetables, will make fat people a thing of the past.

Manatee's will cease just being caricatures on a Florida license plate, since PWC's and fishing boats will no longer keep them from the pursuit of living an unmolested life in the inland waterways.

55,000 Americans a year will not die in needless car accidents every year.

Trains will quit killing teens that do not look before they cross the railroad tracks.
 
jetflyer said:
LOL FN FAL

I don't know why I didn't think of all of those positive results of Peak Oil! What a better world we'll have:)

Jet
:D every silver lining has a dark cloud...
 
Oil is a heavily traded commodity, if you know exactly which way its going then make some heavily leveraged futures trades and retire early.

As for now . . .

washingtonpost.com
Oil sets new record at $58.60

By Bernie Woodall
Reuters
Friday, June 17, 2005; 4:13 PM



NEW YORK (Reuters) - Oil prices set a new record of $58.60 a barrel on Friday, after the United States and other Western nations shut consulates in oil-producing Nigeria following a terrorist threat.

Concerns about the ability of U.S. refiners to cope with strong U.S. demand, despite rising fuel costs, also helped propel prices above the record of $58.28 set in April.

U.S. crude hit the record near the end of Friday's trading session on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

In London, Brent crude also hit an all-time high of $57.95 a barrel on the International Petroleum Exchange, breaking the former record of $57.65 set in April.

U.S. crude settled at $58.47 a barrel, up $1.89. Brent settled at $57.76 a barrel, up $1.54.

The new records are for nearest-month futures, which are July delivery for U.S. crude and August delivery for Brent. U.S. December crude futures hit a record of $60.40 a barrel, the all-time high for any monthly contract.

Worries about security of supply were highlighted by the closure in Nigeria of the U.S., German and British consulates in Lagos, after a warning of a terrorist threat.

Nigeria is the world's eighth-largest crude exporter and the fifth-biggest exporter oil to the United States. Its exports to the United States have risen to 1.1 million barrels per day in the most recent government statistics -- about 10 percent of U.S. crude imports.

While there was concern about Nigeria as an oil source, the country continued to produce and export crude on Friday.

U.S. authorities shut their consulate after a threat involving foreign Islamic militants, U.S. military and diplomatic sources said.

Intelligence information from foreign Islamic militant channels indicated a specific threat to the U.S. presence in Nigeria and its Lagos consulate, a diplomatic source said.

Nigeria has been named by Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden as a candidate for "liberation" and the United States said last month it had uncovered links between his al Qaeda network and Nigerians.

In a survey of industry executives this week in Boston, more than half considered "political upheaval in a strategic country" as the most likely cause of a disruption in oil supply.

DEMAND STRENGTH

Demand strength also supported prices.

U.S. data this week showed brisk consumption of transport fuels, renewing concerns about refiners' ability to meet peak summer gasoline demand and to build heating OIL and diesel FUEL inventories for later in the year.

"There's still high demand, despite the fact that oil's been quite expensive," said Sam Tilley, head of research at brokerage Sucden UK Ltd. "If there is bigger demand than currently, especially later in the year, will the refineries be able to handle it?"

Demand for gasoline over the past four weeks is up 3 percent from a year ago, while consumption of distillates -- diesel, heating oil and jet fuel -- has risen by 6.5 percent, U.S. government data showed this week.

The strength of demand in the face of high prices has surprised some analysts, but a recent study showed that U.S. retail fuel prices have not risen as much in the past 20 years as many other consumer goods have.

While gasoline is up 67 percent since 1984, all consumer goods are up 92 percent, according to the study by consultancy John S. Herold.

"Even for unleaded regular selling for well over $2 a gallon, gasoline expenditures represent less than 15 percent of the average yearly cost of operating a full-size passenger car," the study said.

U.S. crude inventories are 9 percent up year-on-year. But dealers are worried that spare world production capacity is limited now to heavy-sulfur crude from Saudi Arabia, which needs the type of advanced refinery technology that is already fully employed.

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries this week agreed to raise its production limits by 500,000 barrels per day from July, and put another 500,000 bpd on the market soon if prices remained high.

But Saudi Arabia, the only OPEC member with significant production capacity to spare, said it is already meeting demand for as much as it can sell.

© 2005 Reuters
 
FN FAL said:
Look at the positive side of this thing, when SHTF...


55,000 Americans a year will not die in needless car accidents every year.

Interesting qaulifying description of car accidents. This would leave one to suppose there are "needed" car accidents.

I could start a list but I would likely "offend" a lot of princess lovers out there.....
 
I already posted a bunch of links and info regarding some different views on peak oil in this thread:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=55719

I'm not going to take the time to repost everything here.

However, on the subject of the Morgan Stanley guy, I think he has a very real chance of being right. The history of oil prices has been periods of high prices followed by a crash. This is because there is a long lead time to both developing extra capacity and slowing demand. If extra capacity comes on line about the same time that demand slows, the result is much lower prices.

This is why many of the large oil companies are so wary about adding capacity.
 
some_dude said:
If extra capacity comes on line about the same time that demand slows, the result is much lower prices.

This is why many of the large oil companies are so wary about adding capacity.
.
.
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So. . . . what' you're saying is that we need more LCC's to get into the oil / gas business??
.
.
.
 
Exxon predicts NON-OPEC oil will PEAK in 5 years. Exxon is probably even being conservative. Until May they were saying decades not 5 years. They don't want to cause a panic.

Here is my source: http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=mj05cavallo

"Without any press conferences, grand announcements, or hyperbolic advertising campaigns, the Exxon Mobil Corporation, one of the world's largest publicly owned petroleum companies, has quietly joined the ranks of those who are predicting an impending plateau in non-OPEC oil production.
Their report, The Outlook for Energy: A 2030 View, forecasts a peak in just five years."

Jet
 
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Read the transcript of one of the most CONSERVATIVE Congressman in the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
This Speech was given by Maryland
Congressman Roscoe Bartlett to the HOUSE on MAY 3, 2005 about PEAK OIL:

http://www.energybulletin.net/5948.html


He says that the WORLD will peak within 5 years. He also has a great description of how the World is going to feel the pain of Peak Oil before the peak because SUPPLY will start not being met by DEMAND. DEMAND will probably not be met by SUPPLY in the FOURTH QUARTER OF THIS YEAR. Many experts including the Iranian analyst whose comments I posted earlier in this thread predict the Demand shortfall in the 4th quarter. That is the main reason for the RUN UP OF OIL PRICES to record highs on Friday.

Read the transcript from Roscoe Bartlett. He is one sharp cookie:)

He should be applauded for trying to educate the sheeple that their lives are going to change forever if they don't start acting BEFORE the peak is reached. If we're on the downside of the peak when we act inflation is going to be really, really ugly and the economy is going to be in such a recession that overcoming the problems is going to be difficult without the world going into a severe DEPRESSION.

We need to start funding alternatives now.

Jet
 
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The GOVERNMENT NEEDS to start funding alternatives now like we did for the MANHATTAN PROJECT!!

I'm VERY GLAD WE INVADED IRAQ. It's great that we've secured the IRAQ oilfields for our future use, but the $200 Billion spent on IRAQ could have helped us avoid the PROBLEMS of PEAK OIL in other ways.

Read this about IRAQ AND PEAK OIL:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG408A.html

Don't get me wrong I'm glad we secured the Iraq oil fields for our future use. I just wish it would have gone smoother than it has and not cost so much. Also we haven't been able to secure the oil fields. Iraq has only been able to pump about 1.5 million barrels/day since we invaded. We need to get that number up to historic numbers of 3+ million barrels/day as soon as possible. Halliburton is doing everything they can to repair the damage done by sabotage and bombings. I just wish we could stop the insurgents and terrorists from blowing the facilities and pipelines up in the first place!

Jet
 
Singlecoil,

I haven't bought futures yet but I'm looking into it. I just found out about all this PEAK oil mumbo jumbo about a month ago. I didn't even know what futures really were until yesterday as a matter of fact. I visited a website that had a FUTURES 101 instruction section. It tought me a ton. Now I just have to save my money, because I had already put my short term savings in the last couple weeks to max out my and my wife's 2005 ROTH IRAs. I put my ROTH IRA in an ENERGY MUTUAL FUND and my WIFE'S IN GOLD. I think the economy is going to severely be hindered close to the breaking point in the next couple years. I also didn't want to put all my eggs in the ENERGY basket.

All the research I've done on Peak oil is scary though. It's for real.

PEAK OIL is not IF BUT WHEN.

Even Dick Cheney said a few years back that supply was going to outstrip demand SEVERELY by 2010. Read his quote at: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

The newest book on PEAK OIL just out this last week is called "Twilight in the Desert" The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy by Matthew Simmons.

Matthew Simmons advised Dick Cheney back in 2001 on the Energy Policy. He told Dick Cheney all about the many problems of Peak Oil, which Cheney probably already knew about.

He has done research on hundreds of Strategic Petroleum Engineer papers and has come to the conclusion that Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer is having serious problems with their oil fields and is getting close to a decline.

The Ghawar oil field, which produces 5 times more oil than any other OIL FIELD in the WORLD is having serious troubles. This one field produces 5 million barrels of oil a day. Every oil field eventually begins to decline, but if this field begins to decline we're in trouble. It produces 6% of the World's OIL and 60% of Saudi Arabia's oil.

The Saudi's inject 7 million barrels of WATER a day into their Ghawar oil field to maintain well pressures. The WATER CUT (amount of water coming out of the wells with the oil) has also been increasing tremendously. They're having to resort to serious 3D Seismic mapping to attempt to avoid water at this point but it's still not helping. They've been having more and more water encroachment even when using the newest technological horizontal well technology. The field just isn't what it used to be.

All of Saudi Arabia's 6 giant oil fields which have been pumping oil for over 50 years are having similar troubles which are common for all oil fields that are old. These fields produce over 85% of Saudi Arabia's oil, and Saudi Arabia has nothing to fall back on when the inevitable decline that all oil fields go through approaches.

He basically through research of over 200 Strategic Petroleum Engineer papers provides proof that Saudi Arabia is in trouble. Matthew Simmons was actually on CNBC in an interview last week and was countering claims by the Saudi Oil Minister Al Naimi.

I hope PEAK OIL happens later rather than sooner. If Saudi Arabia begins to decline the WORLD will begin to decline immediately. If PEAK OIL happens in the next five years we as a society FINANCIALLY are in a lot of trouble. The scary part is many analysts are thinking PEAK production will happen as soon as the end of this year.

From what I've read though there are enough MAJOR new projects in the works to delay peak until atleast 2008-2010.

I do however think SUPPLY WILL NOT MEET DEMAND as soon as the end of this year though. That is the major reason why the price just hit a record on Friday. Analysts are starting to get real nervous about the supply problems. Supply not meeting demand is scary enough!! The oil prices are going to get to hurtful levels soon and just keep going up year over year. Then when the inevitable decline begins after we pass peak, WE'RE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE!! I'm not joking when I say serious wars might be fought over this resource. Or have they already been fought?? Iraq 1 & 2 ??

SCARY STUFF and SCARY TIMES we're going to live in really soon! I used to be worried about my airline. Now I'm worried about the USA and the WORLD.

Jet
 
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jetflyer said:
The GOVERNMENT NEEDS to start funding alternatives now like we did for the MANHATTAN PROJECT!!

I'm VERY GLAD WE INVADED IRAQ. It's great that we've secured the IRAQ oilfields for our future use, but the $200 Billion spent on IRAQ could have helped us avoid the PROBLEMS of PEAK OIL in other ways.

Read this about IRAQ AND PEAK OIL:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG408A.html

Don't get me wrong I'm glad we secured the Iraq oil fields for our future use. I just wish it would have gone smoother than it has and not cost so much. Also we haven't been able to secure the oil fields. Iraq has only been able to pump about 1.5 million barrels/day since we invaded. We need to get that number up to historic numbers of 3+ million barrels/day as soon as possible. Halliburton is doing everything they can to repair the damage done by sabotage and bombings. I just wish we could stop the insurgents and terrorists from blowing the facilities and pipelines up in the first place!

Jet

I guess your fellow Americans (almost 2 thousand of them now) dead somehow don't factor in concerning all this. By the way who's we? You got a mouse in your pocket somewhere?

G
 
jetflyer said:
The GOVERNMENT NEEDS to start funding alternatives now like we did for the MANHATTAN PROJECT!!

I'm VERY GLAD WE INVADED IRAQ. It's great that we've secured the IRAQ oilfields for our future use, but the $200 Billion spent on IRAQ could have helped us avoid the PROBLEMS of PEAK OIL in other ways.

Read this about IRAQ AND PEAK OIL:
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG408A.html

Don't get me wrong I'm glad we secured the Iraq oil fields for our future use. I just wish it would have gone smoother than it has and not cost so much. Also we haven't been able to secure the oil fields. Iraq has only been able to pump about 1.5 million barrels/day since we invaded. We need to get that number up to historic numbers of 3+ million barrels/day as soon as possible. Halliburton is doing everything they can to repair the damage done by sabotage and bombings. I just wish we could stop the insurgents and terrorists from blowing the facilities and pipelines up in the first place!

Jet

I guess your fellow dead Americans (almost 2 thousand of them now and counting) somehow doesn't factor in concerning all this. By the way who's we? You got a mouse in your pocket somewhere?

G
 
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Sorry Cobra,

I didn't mean to sound like I didn't care about our troops and the sacrifices they've given for us. Many have given the ultimate sacrifice. I hate it that the war is not going well and that Americans are getting killed. It angers me badly.

I am sure Bush thought things were going to be a cake walk. The seizing of IRAQ actually was. I think he did what he did for the American people and our way of living. I'm sure he didn't think many Americans would die at all.

LACK OF PLANNING?? DEFINITELY. Did he lie to the American public? Definitely! Did he think he was doing what he did for our welfare? I'm sure of it.

WE CAN BLAME BUSH, but WE MUST PUT MORE OF THE BLAME ON THE INSURGENTS AND THE TERRORISTS. They are the ones killing our wonderful young men and women.

PEAK OIL is one of the major reasons we went to war with IRAQ.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG408A.html

There is another reason.
Read this article and see that this is the FINANCIAL REASON why we went to war with IRAQ:
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/2003/04/20030409.php

Once again, I'm sorry if I was insensitive Cobra. I wish we'd have never gone to war with IRAQ. We didn't know as many people would die and that it would cost so much money. In hindsight we SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO WAR with IRAQ. If we knew it was going to cost $200 BILLION dollars we definitely shouldn't have gone to war.

WE SHOULD HAVE spent the $200 Billion dollars to reduce our independence on foreign oil. We could have used it to advance bio-fuels, develop hydrogen cars, fund FUSION power, build NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, make ELECTRIC cars more advanced that ran off the nuclear plants, etc. We could have done a lot with that $200 Billion. It will probably be $500 billion before it's all done too. That will suck huh?

I think we've done what we have though, so let's fix IRAQ. I think we should train the Iraqi's to provide the security for themselves and then hide in American reinforced bases. WILL WE EVER LEAVE? NO, NEVER. Iraq has the second most OIL RESERVES second only to Saudi Arabia's. We're going to protect our national interest which is oil.

We're going to need every drop of that oil very soon. Let's hope we can get the Iraqi oil fields pumping and stop them from getting blown up!

Jet
 
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First of all, we did not go to war in Iraq to get their oil. If that was all we wanted, it would have been much cheaper and much easier to make a deal with Saddam.

If you really believe in the peak oil stuff you keep repeating, I strongly suggest a career change. I would consider either organic farmer (advantage: would make you a hero on the peakoil.com messageboard) or nuclear plant technician (might not go over as well on peakoil.com). Either one should do just fine under your scenarios.
 
Some dude,

Lol funny.
You too will believe in peak oil soon.
Unfortunately.

Read this BLOOMBERG article from last Thursday talking about the SUPPLY/DEMAND problems coming in the 4th quarter:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=&sid=aiwRNOjz1HRc
It also says that if oil prices break through the record which it did Friday, then oil wil go to $70 NEXT.

Jet

p.s. you're in denial:) Don't worry it's normal.
 
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jetflyer said:
Some dude,

Lol funny.
You too will believe in peak oil soon.
Unfortunately.

Read this BLOOMBERG article from last Thursday talking about the SUPPLY/DEMAND problems coming in the 4th quarter:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=&sid=aiwRNOjz1HRc
It also says that if oil prices break through the record which it did Friday, then oil wil go to $70 NEXT.

Jet

p.s. you're in denial:) Don't worry it's normal.

Jet,

I trade in commodities and equities every day. When I read an article in any medium that states the future price of any commodity, I have to smile.

A little background. I am a very small player, generally making about 15 trades a day (equity side) moving about $3M in and out of the market. On the futures side, I am still learning and as such generally trade only a few contracts a day, all without leverage.


I have no idea if crude will push $100 or $20/bl, but I know if you or anyone else knew, they wouldn't be driving someone else around for a living. Offer real proof of this move to a broker and you should have all the margin you need. Wait, I take that back. Offer real proof of a price move to a broker and they'll trade that info themselves. Since we really don't know for a certainty what the price of any commodity will do in the near term, it is still called specualtion. Oil may hit $200 next week for all I know, but I won't be risking my capital on any crude contracts; I am not smart enough to go head to head with that market right now.

I am not one in denial, and one would assume that oil will increase in price going forward, especially as how it has lagged inflation for such a long time. I'm not sure it's current price is even excessive when inflation adjusted. I would agree that known reserves are declining, since they are what's known and we are using them daily. The reason I can't get too excited and dig a hole in my back yard (well I've already done that but I filled it with cement and water) to hide in is because this chicken little scenario has been oft repeated since oil was found and new sources seem to always pop up. May not happen again and even if new reserves are found they may be quite a bit more expensive than what's under all that sand. So I'll sit back and watch you get rich (you do believe in this stuff right? You are going to risk your very own captial, right?) and salute your market saviness with a smile.

Oh and by the way, I understand that you don't like the current political situation in our country. A word of advice. Don't risk your own money because you hate a current politican. I detect more emotion than logic in your posts and while a fool and his money are soon parted, it is usually becasue a fool makes decisions based on emotions.

Good luck with your contracts this week. Let us know how it goes.
 
They predicted that crude would be gone by the 1980's.
Guess what?

Alarmist crap is always popular, though.

Here's the real catch: If we were this close to running out of oil, the price would already be much higher.

So just because you found some website that claims to know the future, you believe? Come, now. Prices will probably go up. Quite a bit, even. But if the Saudis were really almost out of oil, they would be selling for more.

Personally, I DO think that the Saudis may diminish as oil producers, but that they will be replaced by others.

Canada is looking good, also, and there is always ANWR. If/when gas is 8 bucks a gallon, the tree hugging soccer moms will be storming the government demanding that ANWR be drilled so that they can drive their SUVs. It is only a matter of price before public opinion will shift. Perhaps we will get more fuel-efficient cars. Perhaps less gas-guzzling SUVs. (Personally, my car gets better tha 40 mpg, so I'm okay with the SUV being phased out).

IF these guys at peakoil really believe this stuff, I'd like to see their portfolio.

Meanwhile, I'm planning on opening a part 135 glider operation, just in case. Anyone know where I can get some REALLY big rubber bands?
 

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