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An oil crash???

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miles otoole

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http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/16/news/international/outlook_morganstanley.reut/index.htm

Morgan Stanley: Oil prices may crash
Economist sees slackening global demand, increased use of alternative energy and market correction.
June 16, 2005: 6:53 AM EDT


SINGAPORE (Reuters) - The oil market may be quickly headed for a massive crash as global economic growth slackens, alternative energy gains ground and financial traders sense a price peak, an economist with Morgan Stanley said Thursday.

His projection for a multi-year bear cycle stands in sharp contrast to the super-spike scenario envisioned three months ago by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley's arch-rival in the world of oil derivatives trading, where they are the two biggest players.

"As evidence of weakening demand and ample supply accumulates, the market may panic," Andy Xie, Greater China economist in Hong Kong, said in a report. "I believe it could correct in the most speculative fashion -- it could collapse."

Oil prices have extended their two-year boom into the first half of 2005, gaining 28 percent since January to top $55 a barrel amid fears that already maxed-out refiners will struggle to supply enough fuel in the second half of the year.

In March, Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research issued a report that said oil markets had entered a "super-spike" period that could see 1970's-style price surges as high as $105.

The report said resilient demand in the United States and China, despite high prices, had forced the firm to revise its forecasts upward, predicting it could take several years of high prices to curb demand and rebuild spare capacity in the taut system.

But Morgan's Xie said increased efficiency and conservation measures and the viability of alternatives like oil sands and liquefied gas and coal was already undercutting demand for oil.

"As energy producers step up production from alternative energy sources...oil prices could stay depressed for many years when the current economic cycle turns down," he said.

A deceleration in the world economy could gather pace in the fourth quarter, causing the oil bubble to burst, he said.

China is keyIn particular demand from China, which accounted for more than a third of the increase in global demand last year, may have been inflated by an overheating economy.

China's total oil imports eased 1.2 percent in the first five months of 2005, Xie said, and they could fall further next year as new power plants help prevent the electricity outages that inflated demand for diesel and fuel oil in 2004.

Last year's fall in the U.S. dollar was often cited as a factor behind higher oil prices, since it makes fuel less expensive in non-dollar economies and as it wooed investment from speculative hedge funds. But with the greenback near an eight-month high versus the euro, that too has faded.

As all these factors gather pace, the market may ultimately be doomed to crash by the growing dependence of financial institutions on oil trading profits, Xie writes.

"As oil has worked for so long, the financial community is hanging on to this position," he says. Speculative funds have been increasingly active in commodity markets over the past two years and are often blamed by OPEC for keeping prices high.

"They will likely keep prices up until an oil market collapse. That day is not too far away, I believe... What is occurring now is probably the final frenzy, in my view."

Most fundamental oil analysts are less bearish than Xie, who gave no specific forecasts for oil prices.

A rolling Reuters poll of 29 analysts forecast an average U.S. crude price of $48.71 a barrel this year and $44.18 a barrel next year. Prices have averaged $51.05 so far this year.
 
miles otoole said:
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/16/news/international/outlook_morganstanley.reut/index.htm

Morgan Stanley: Oil prices may crash
Economist sees slackening global demand, increased use of alternative energy and market correction.
June 16, 2005: 6:53 AM EDT


SINGAPORE (Reuters) - The oil market may be quickly headed for a massive crash as global economic growth slackens, alternative energy gains ground and financial traders sense a price peak, an economist with Morgan Stanley said Thursday.

His projection for a multi-year bear cycle stands in sharp contrast to the super-spike scenario envisioned three months ago by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley's arch-rival in the world of oil derivatives trading, where they are the two biggest players.

"As evidence of weakening demand and ample supply accumulates, the market may panic," Andy Xie, Greater China economist in Hong Kong, said in a report. "I believe it could correct in the most speculative fashion -- it could collapse."

Oil prices have extended their two-year boom into the first half of 2005, gaining 28 percent since January to top $55 a barrel amid fears that already maxed-out refiners will struggle to supply enough fuel in the second half of the year.

In March, Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research issued a report that said oil markets had entered a "super-spike" period that could see 1970's-style price surges as high as $105.

The report said resilient demand in the United States and China, despite high prices, had forced the firm to revise its forecasts upward, predicting it could take several years of high prices to curb demand and rebuild spare capacity in the taut system.

But Morgan's Xie said increased efficiency and conservation measures and the viability of alternatives like oil sands and liquefied gas and coal was already undercutting demand for oil.

"As energy producers step up production from alternative energy sources...oil prices could stay depressed for many years when the current economic cycle turns down," he said.

A deceleration in the world economy could gather pace in the fourth quarter, causing the oil bubble to burst, he said.

China is keyIn particular demand from China, which accounted for more than a third of the increase in global demand last year, may have been inflated by an overheating economy.

China's total oil imports eased 1.2 percent in the first five months of 2005, Xie said, and they could fall further next year as new power plants help prevent the electricity outages that inflated demand for diesel and fuel oil in 2004.

Last year's fall in the U.S. dollar was often cited as a factor behind higher oil prices, since it makes fuel less expensive in non-dollar economies and as it wooed investment from speculative hedge funds. But with the greenback near an eight-month high versus the euro, that too has faded.

As all these factors gather pace, the market may ultimately be doomed to crash by the growing dependence of financial institutions on oil trading profits, Xie writes.

"As oil has worked for so long, the financial community is hanging on to this position," he says. Speculative funds have been increasingly active in commodity markets over the past two years and are often blamed by OPEC for keeping prices high.

"They will likely keep prices up until an oil market collapse. That day is not too far away, I believe... What is occurring now is probably the final frenzy, in my view."

Most fundamental oil analysts are less bearish than Xie, who gave no specific forecasts for oil prices.

A rolling Reuters poll of 29 analysts forecast an average U.S. crude price of $48.71 a barrel this year and $44.18 a barrel next year. Prices have averaged $51.05 so far this year.

What is that analyst smoking? I guess his 15 minutes of fame begins now. The Hedge Funds will ensure that oil prices stay high...
 
This is such a roller coaster. Didn't we think gas prices were going to continue to go down las t week when prices were at $46 a barrel? What would OPEC do if a crash happened? They would cut production and make sure prices stay high. Didn't we just take over Iraq? Where is that oil? Can we call Iraq "East Texas?" Also, the major problem here is lack of refinery space. We haven't had a new refinery built (except a new one supposedly in SW Arizona) in 25 years. Bush and his oil friends are loving it.....



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
What does T Boone Pickens say? He's corrcetly called every oil price increase and decrease so far...
 
aa73 said:
What does T Boone Pickens say? He's corrcetly called every oil price increase and decrease so far...

He has a lot to gain from an increase, and he won't say anything to hurt his own interests. Why doesn't he build some more refineries? Valero is a company that owns some refineries and their stock is up 40% since the huge increase. You would think with those profits they would build some more refineries, right? Wrong. Even the Saudis say it is lack of refineries. T.Boone would like to continue making profits I would think.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
He has a lot to gain from an increase, and he won't say anything to hurt his own interests. Why doesn't he build some more refineries? Valero is a company that owns some refineries and their stock is up 40% since the huge increase. You would think with those profits they would build some more refineries, right? Wrong. Even the Saudis say it is lack of refineries. T.Boone would like to continue making profits I would think.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I see, said the blind man...
 
aa73 said:
I see, said the blind man...

Sounds like you want to bone T. Boone.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
General Lee said:
Sounds like you want to bone T. Boone.

Bye Bye--General Lee

naw, he's not my type... i was just acknowleging your info, since it was all news to me. Iw as just wondering why he always semed to be one step ahead of the roller coaster prices.
 
FedExFlyer said:
And I'm sure pilots will now reap the benefits from lower fuel costs..........NOT!!!

Sure....airline executives will allow pilot contracts to snap back to pre concession levels and continue with 100% funding of defered compensation pensions..........maybe even offer a cost of living raise.......UGH!!!!!!!!!
 

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