ALPA taking 2% from Bonus

[PCL_128]

Care to predict if the expenses of the new President will go UP or DOWN this year?

They'll be roughly the same. The job of the President hasn't changed, so neither will the cost of doing business.

Thanks for the honest reply. Herein lies out root disagreement, I think.

• You argue that because he works hard, he deserves lots of money.
• I argue that he should be paid based on results (excuses don't count for executive level positions), not on how many hours he clocks in.

After all, the hardest workers in the world get paid almost nothing. Be they sweatshop workers in China, or minimum wage Joe's in the US, they work very hard and make almost nothing. Why?

Because not much is really expected of them. I'd have to say that the President of an organization with a quarter of a billion dollars in cash has A LOT expected of him.

I don't think DW met the bar. One a-holes opinion, of course.

How do you quantify "results" in order to set compensation? I would argue that Duane brought the best results of any President in quite some time. You and many other rank-and-file members would argue differently. How do you quantify this to set compensation? Simply, you can't. That's why it's the job of the BOD to determine compensation and to vote on national Officers. If you have a problem with either, then you talk with your status reps, who are the BOD members, and tell them how you want them to vote. Democracy in action.

 

[PCL_128]

I can't speak intelligently about the CCAir contract, other than to say that they voted it in, so they were obviously happy with it.

Their happiness with it is irrelevant. The fact that it was clearly in violation of the ALPA Constitution and Bylaws isn't.

The Mesa contract, however, was concessionary in every way except pay. It was a dramatic step backwards for the Mesa pilot group, which didn't have much of a contract to begin with.

No, it really wasn't. Yes, some items were traded to make gains in other areas, but when looked at as a whole, the overall contract was a step forward. ALPA policy looks at the entire agreement, not just a few parts here and there. The single issue of Scope was a large enough gain to offset lots of other issues, and was the driving factor in these negotiations. The MAG agreement was compliant with ALPA policy, and the CCAir agreement was not. That's pretty simple, and that's why Duane had to reject the CCAir contract.

 

[TurboAWD]

Ahh, the battered wife syndrome defense.

It's YOUR fault your husband beats you. You need to work harder and things will all be better. Because it's all YOUR fault, don't you see? You can't possibly expect HIM to deliver anything.

Who is the wife and who is the husband? ALPA is made up of the pilots, so they are the same.

As far as "work harder", I would be happy to see "work at all".

Turbo

 

[eaglefly]

Can you objectively explain what DW did...while in office... in terms of the profession. Not in terms of "whats in it for me..."

Also, please explain the 2006 BOD election dynamic that lost DW the election..... please include the UAL and CAL factor..... including UAL's MB.


As long as you keep the fight in here... management will keep laughing at us skilled hourly wage pilots...

I wish I could tell you what DW "did" while in office.

I'm still trying to figure that out myself..............

 

[eaglefly]

ignorant



They voted via democracy...



AMR, APA....


I know FA's that can whine better than you...




Keep your eye on YOUR career....




That is all they can do. See, in order to be effective one has to accept responsibility for themselves. Like children who depend on others and when it doesn't go their way... what do they do.....whine... becuase they can't do anything else...they have given control over to others...



Oh they want ALPA to do all the work... what they want is thier fellow pilots to volunteer thier time off while they enjoy thier time off...




Are you kididng.. that would take a self starter and critical thought... no..volunteer committee work is for smart pilots... not the freeloaders who show up, fly thier trip and go home..




Please... there are high scores on Xbox to obtain... why would I want to go to a meeting..and particapte in domocacy... voice my opinon and try and understand the issues..



Ha! Turbo you silly silly man.... that would mean I am an American and I have American values. That I believe in our consitution and I recognize the sacrifice of the US Armed forces that give thier lives so that we can practice deomocracy in its many forms. No no.. I'd rather just let the company unilaterally control my career.... Like the Matrix... eating the steak.... ignorance is bliss... just put me back in the Matrix...and I don't want to remember anything..



You crazy boy! Picketing events require a little bit of courage... besides...I wanna get the high score on Xbox




Now you've done it!!

Entire post last seen floating in a toilet, colored brown with icky toilet paper clinging to it.

 

[eaglefly]

They'll be roughly the same. The job of the President hasn't changed, so neither will the cost of doing business.



How do you quantify "results" in order to set compensation? I would argue that Duane brought the best results of any President in quite some time. You and many other rank-and-file members would argue differently. How do you quantify this to set compensation? Simply, you can't. That's why it's the job of the BOD to determine compensation and to vote on national Officers. If you have a problem with either, then you talk with your status reps, who are the BOD members, and tell them how you want them to vote. Democracy in action.

Both ALPA and I believe you are overpaid. Their secretary's who live in the DC area should be paid more..............and probably are.

 

[TurboAWD]

So now you think AirTran FO's are overpaid?

You really are brilliant.

Turbo

 

[TurboAWD]

Entire post last seen floating in a toilet, colored brown with icky toilet paper clinging to it.

Along with all our careers, thanks to pilots like you.

Turbo

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I wish I could tell you what DW "did" while in office.

I'm still trying to figure that out myself..............

And that is the problem... you don't have a clue. No idea. and your education and understanding is who's repsonsbility? Who is obligated to put information in your head? Another fault of ALPA? DW or JP?

The problem with guys like you and soverytired are you act like kids. My five year old has a better appreciation and understanding of what it takes to makes sure that life goes on.

Basically your guys are spoiled ungrateful kids. You don't appreciate the work that others do for you just so you can show up, fly your trip and go home without concern.

HAve you ever taken any responsbility for yours or another pilots career?

 

[eaglefly]

And that is the problem... you don't have a clue. No idea. and your education and understanding is who's repsonsbility? Who is obligated to put information in your head? Another fault of ALPA? DW or JP?

The problem with guys like you and soverytired are you act like kids. My five year old has a better appreciation and understanding of what it takes to makes sure that life goes on.

Basically your guys are spoiled ungrateful kids. You don't appreciate the work that others do for you just so you can show up, fly your trip and go home without concern.

HAve you ever taken any responsbility for yours or another pilots career?

Hardly a kid. Been flying 26 years. ALPA never taught me what it means to be a pilot and sadly never will. They taught me politics and apathetic disregard though.

By the way, I see your current psition is "fixing ALPA". Why would you need to fix something that isn't broken ?

 

[Soverytired]

How do you quantify "results" in order to set compensation? I would argue that Duane brought the best results of any President in quite some time. You and many other rank-and-file members would argue differently. How do you quantify this to set compensation?

You're arguing that "results" can't be quantified for an executive level position within ALPA? Nice job, if you can swing it. Apparently you don't have to produce anything except excuses. Sweet.

(clearly the rank and file disagrees, because DW ain't the man anymore)

 

[PCL_128]

You're arguing that "results" can't be quantified for an executive level position within ALPA? Nice job, if you can swing it. Apparently you don't have to produce anything except excuses. Sweet.

Yes, results can be determined by educated and informed members, but not by your typical ignorant rank-and-file pilot that judges results merely by how much bitching and whining is going on in the crew lounge about ALPA.

(clearly the rank and file disagrees, because DW ain't the man anymore)

Careful, you're displaying your ignorance again. DW wasn't voted out by the rank-and-file. Care to guess who voted in Prater? And for the record, it had nothing to do with dissatisfaction with Duane. It was all a political vote-trading fiasco.

 

[Soverytired]

No, it really wasn't. [in response to "Mesa's contract was concessionary"]Yes, some items were traded to make gains in other areas, but when looked at as a whole, the overall contract was a step forward. ALPA policy looks at the entire agreement, not just a few parts here and there. The single issue of Scope was a large enough gain to offset lots of other issues, and was the driving factor in these negotiations. The MAG agreement was compliant with ALPA policy, and the CCAir agreement was not. That's pretty simple, and that's why Duane had to reject the CCAir contract.

Oy! I'd say about 1200 Mesa pilots would disagree with you about the contract not being concessionary.

And yeah, I'm familiar with the "vote it in for the scope or your 1200 jobs will be give to 75 Freedom pilots".

Just read that . . . . 1200 jobs covered by 75 F8 pilots. No wonder JO thinks his pilot group is composed of morons.

It could more honestly have been sold as "Hey, just bend over and take it up the pooper . . you might just like it, don't knock what you haven't tried!"

Trust me, the previous contract was better. But hey, they're negotiating right now, so maybe in 2-3 years, and for the first time in 15 years, they might have a phenomenal contract. Definitely worth being a part of ALPA for 15 years just for that.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Ahh, the battered wife syndrome defense.

It's YOUR fault your husband beats you. You need to work harder and things will all be better. Because it's all YOUR fault, don't you see? You can't possibly expect HIM to deliver anything.

Very Weak.

 

[PCL_128]

Oy! I'd say about 1200 Mesa pilots would disagree with you about the contract not being concessionary.

And I'd say about 1200 Mesa pilots (or more) couldn't even tell me what RLA stands for, so their assessment of a complicated labor agreement isn't very germane.

 

[John Pennekamp]

What does that have to do with anything? Duane's house in Florida isn't any of my concern. The fact that he has to keep a second resident in DC is. The Association requires him to keep a residence in DC, so the Association needs to provide him with that residence since it isn't where he would normally live. "Stealing money?" He was paid whatever the BOD approved for him. I don't remember hearing any "nays" coming from the ASA table when the President's compensation resolution was being voted on at the BOD, so I assume that you didn't have a problem with it. Either that, or you're too spineless to voice your true opinion. Which was it? One of the other officers in my council at PCL sat on the compensation committee at the last BOD. Did he witness an outcry from the other members of the committee about lowering the compensation? Nope. You can't blame the President for getting paid what the BOD decides to pay him. Remember, Prater, the guy you voted for, campaigned saying that he wouldn't accept this "big" compensation package. What did he do? Exactly what Duane did. He took the money without so much as a small objection. The fact is that the BOD determines the President's compensation. The Officers aren't even allowed to be in the room when the BOD votes on the resolutions. If you want to complain about compensation, then point your blame at the BOD. Oh wait, that was you!

PCL, you're so far off in left field, you have no clue what you're even talking about. You obviously were not there. There were lots of "nays", especially in the back of the room, coming from the UAL and NWA MECs... and one ASA delegate, me. Were you asleep, or just stupid hungover?

As for me, I actually voted for Duane, even though I find him Woerthless. I decided that Prater was too scrappy to be taken seriously in the Beltway. Since that's all the president does is was schmooze politicians (and all Duane was good at), I figured we may as well vote for him. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it while you STFU.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Careful, you're displaying your ignorance again.

Watching you two debate is like having front row seats at the Special Olympics.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, you're so far off in left field, you have no clue what you're even talking about. You obviously were not there. There were lots of "nays", especially in the back of the room, coming from the UAL and NWA MECs... and one ASA delegate, me. Were you asleep, or just stupid hungover?

Must have missed your vote. We were on the other side of the room, so I didn't notice anything coming from the ASA table. Sorry for the incorrect assumption. But yes, I was definitely hung-over.

As for me, I actually voted for Duane, even though I find him Woerthless. I decided that Prater was too scrappy to be taken seriously in the Beltway. Since that's all the president does is was schmooze politicians (and all Duane was good at), I figured we may as well vote for him. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it while you STFU.

Glad to hear it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Must have missed your vote. We were on the other side of the room, so I didn't notice anything coming from the ASA table. Sorry for the incorrect assumption. But yes, I was definitely hung-over.

Glad to hear it.

Regarding Duane vs. Prater, you and I discussed it one night in the hospitality suite Don't you remember? Wonder why?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hardly a kid. Been flying 26 years. ALPA never taught me what it means to be a pilot and sadly never will. They taught me politics and apathetic disregard though.

By the way, I see your current psition is "fixing ALPA". Why would you need to fix something that isn't broken ?

Just because you have 10K hours and have been paying dues doesn't make you politically effective. I am sure you are a better pilot than I.....