ALPA taking 2% from Bonus

[DoinTime]

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA Officer Compensation.htm

2003 was the highest paid year for the ALPA president. When the big mainline concessions rolled in the president salary plummeted with everyone else.

 

[JoeMerchant]

2003 was the highest paid year for the ALPA president. When the big mainline concessions rolled in the president salary plummeted with everyone else.

Actually, the formula was changed at the 2002 BOD so as to minimize the reduction due to the concessions.

The formula was changed from using the 6 highest ALPA carriers to using the 3 highest ALPA carriers...... This guaranteed that the pay would stay high.... FedEx didn't take concessions, and the Delta/NWA concessions hadn't taken effect yet...... ALPA took care of it's own......

These rates were in effect until the 2006 BOD....Your information is incorrect DoinTime.....

 

[eaglefly]

Actually, the formula was changed at the 2002 BOD so as to minimize the reduction due to the concessions.

The formula was changed from using the 6 highest ALPA carriers to using the 3 highest ALPA carriers...... This guaranteed that the pay would stay high.... FedEx didn't take concessions, and the Delta/NWA concessions hadn't taken effect yet...... ALPA took care of it's own......

These rates were in effect until the 2006 BOD....Your information is incorrect DoinTime.....

National took care of its own, all right................selling many of us down the river to do it.

The fatcats stay fat.

 

[DoinTime]

These rates were in effect until the 2006 BOD....Your information is incorrect DoinTime.....

2003 president income - 372,728

2005 - 351,186
2006 - 348,345

Regardless of how you compile the average it is still the average. All said and done the ALPA president is woefully underpaid.

 

[DoinTime]

National took care of its own, all right................selling many of us down the river to do it.

The fatcats stay fat.

You imply that you directly were "sold down the river." How so?

 

[Soverytired]

You really are clueless. You need to do some research. I can assure you that DW never brought home anything even approaching a half million dollars.

Technically, you are correct on two points:

DW's salary was:

• $348,345 salary in 2006
• "benefits and other compensation" was an additional $137,066.

So the total take was "only" $485,411. Less than 1/2 million, so you're correct. And it was slightly less than his 2005 take of $487,930.

(all of this is a matter of public record and can be found on the DOL website)

That said, I've never had a problem with paying top dollar for top talent. IMHO, DW oversaw the dismantling of numerous carrier's pensions and contracts and was powerless to stop any of it. The membership apparently agreed, because they gave him the boot.

The other 120+ employee's who make between $393,000-$100,000 are also a matter of public record. Again, that's fine if they bring home the bacon. In 10 years at Mesa, I only saw them sign sub-par contracts and sell out CCAir.

 

[Soverytired]

What's so special about earning $45K in the D.C. area? You think secretaries don't need to be paid?

Lot's of single mothers are secretaries. And DC is expensive.

There's plenty of due's money in the till . . . I think ALPA should pay it's secretaries $100,000/yr. No wait, I think it should be $200,000/yr, plus a $50,000/yr bonus if they actually answer a phone.

Because going market rate really shouldn't mean anything.

 

[PCL_128]

Technically, you are correct on two points:

DW's salary was:

• $348,345 salary in 2006
• "benefits and other compensation" was an additional $137,066.

So the total take was "only" $485,411. Less than 1/2 million, so you're correct. And it was slightly less than his 2005 take of $487,930.

(all of this is a matter of public record and can be found on the DOL website)

Do you count the cost of your benefits when you figure how much you make? When filling out an application for a loan, do add the additional 40% in benefits costs to the top of your salary? Didn't think so. DW's benefits are counted by the DOL, but they shouldn't be. Using their requirements for calculating compensation, I was making six figures as a CRJ Captain at Pinnacle, and I can assure you that that was not the case.

 

[PCL_128]

Lot's of single mothers are secretaries. And DC is expensive.

There's plenty of due's money in the till . . . I think ALPA should pay it's secretaries $100,000/yr. No wait, I think it should be $200,000/yr, plus a $50,000/yr bonus if they actually answer a phone.

Because going market rate really shouldn't mean anything.

ALPA staffers are represented by a union. They negotiate for their pay and benefits just like we do. You champion the idea of "market rates," but do you really want that for yourself? If we took the unions out of the equation and pilots were paid "market rates," then you'd likely be getting paid half of what you currently are. I'm betting that you wouldn't be open to that idea, so why demand it of your union's staffers? The staff in Herndon earns every dime and then some.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Do you count the cost of your benefits when you figure how much you make? When filling out an application for a loan, do add the additional 40% in benefits costs to the top of your salary? Didn't think so. DW's benefits are counted by the DOL, but they shouldn't be. Using their requirements for calculating compensation, I was making six figures as a CRJ Captain at Pinnacle, and I can assure you that that was not the case.

PCL, I do believe you and I were both at the 2004 BOD in FLL. At that time, DW was being paid $450,000 per year salary and also had a $150,000 annual expense account. This is before taxes, of course. This did not include his additional perks like the car and such.

Please stop BS-ing everyone. DW was compensated in excess of half a million a year. So what? He went up against CEOs who made ten times that. Everyone who criticized him is just jealous that they couldn't make half a mil to essentially do nothing but smoke stogies with their buddies and go on TV from time to time.

 

[PCL_128]

John, I'd have to go back and look at the old resolution, but I don't think that DW's salary was ever $450k, even before the concessions started. I think it topped out in the highest year in the high $300s.

 

[DoinTime]

DW oversaw the dismantling of numerous carrier's pensions and contracts and was powerless to stop any of it.

You are right. DW was powerless to stop any of it. Nobody could have stopped the bankruptcy train. Not Worth, not Prater, not even Behncke. There seems to be a belief that Unions can stop anything from happening if they just say NO. Anyone who has this belief has a lot to learn.

In 10 years at Mesa, I only saw them sign sub-par contracts and sell out CCAir.

It wasn't ALPA that sold out CCAir and negotiated that crappy contract. It was the Mesa Pilot group. Everything you call your own is a direct reflection of yourself. Your contract did not meet any of the criteria for rejection by ALPA so DW had to sign it.

 

[pilotyip]

Remember all contracts are local in nature and reflect the interests of that locla group.

 

[Soverytired]

It wasn't ALPA that sold out CCAir and negotiated that crappy contract. It was the Mesa Pilot group. Everything you call your own is a direct reflection of yourself. Your contract did not meet any of the criteria for rejection by ALPA so DW had to sign it.

CCAir negotiated a contract in good faith. Their membership voted it in. DW refused to sign it though, and that was the end of CCair.

So I ask you, why did DW refuse to sign off on CCAir's contract, knowing it would put them all on the street?

The why did he sign off on the Mesa contract, which was demonstrably worse in all respects to the CCAir contract?

I'm genuinely curious about your reply. My own thoughts are that the needs of the Mesa group to absorb CCAir and get the CRJ9's (1000+ pilots) outweighed the needs of the CCAir group (200 or so pilots), so the CCAir pilots were sold down the river.

As to why he signed Mesa's crip contract and not CCAir's, I'm quite curious as to the official explanation.

 

[Soverytired]

Do you count the cost of your benefits when you figure how much you make? When filling out an application for a loan, do add the additional 40% in benefits costs to the top of your salary? Didn't think so. DW's benefits are counted by the DOL, but they shouldn't be. Using their requirements for calculating compensation, I was making six figures as a CRJ Captain at Pinnacle, and I can assure you that that was not the case.

No, I don't. But I don't get $100k+ in extra benefits either. It's nowhere near the same, and you know it.

Frankly, I find this whole line of argument pretty weak anyway.

A better argument would be to explain WHY he deserves every penny of that money (300k or 450k, you decide) based on personal performance in the job.

Please respond. And not in general "ALPA does this and that" terms, but specific achievements of said ALPA President.

 

[Soverytired]

Please stop BS-ing everyone. DW was compensated in excess of half a million a year. So what? He went up against CEOs who made ten times that. Everyone who criticized him is just jealous that they couldn't make half a mil to essentially do nothing but smoke stogies with their buddies and go on TV from time to time.

Hah hah! Honesty I can appreciate!

His salary and perks were frankly indefensible based on his performance. It's not at pro-ALPA / anti-ALPA argument, it's just a common sense observation.

When you get past all the reasons/excuses, ultimately the question for the President of ALPA is :
"Did he leave the office with ALPA stronger as a union or weaker?"

Reasonable people can disagree on this point. But I say the National union as a whole weakened considerable under his tenure.

 

[DoinTime]

CCAir negotiated a contract in good faith. Their membership voted it in. DW refused to sign it though, and that was the end of CCair.

So I ask you, why did DW refuse to sign off on CCAir's contract, knowing it would put them all on the street?

The why did he sign off on the Mesa contract, which was demonstrably worse in all respects to the CCAir contract?

I'm genuinely curious about your reply. My own thoughts are that the needs of the Mesa group to absorb CCAir and get the CRJ9's (1000+ pilots) outweighed the needs of the CCAir group (200 or so pilots), so the CCAir pilots were sold down the river.

As to why he signed Mesa's crip contract and not CCAir's, I'm quite curious as to the official explanation.

CCAir's contract violated ALPA's concessionary negotiating protocol. It was a deeply concessionary deal for a company that could not demonstrate a financial need for the concessions. DW could not sign the CCAir deal without an entire rewrite of the rules pertaining to concessionary bargaining.

The Mesa deal, while horribly deficient by todays standards, was an improvement in more regards than not than their previous deal. It was not a concessionary deal and did not trigger concessionary bargaining rules. DW had to sign the deal.

What the Mesa Air Group was trying to do with CCAir was use them to whipsaw the MAG pilots and keep pilot salary rock bottom low. Their isn't much ALPA can do when a robber baron like Ornstein is h*ll bent on destroying an airline that he owns. Many great airlines including Eastern have been destroyed by their owners for similar reasons.

 

[DoinTime]

Reasonable people can disagree on this point. But I say the National union as a whole weakened considerable under his tenure.

How so? Please elaborate.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

CCAir negotiated a contract in good faith. Their membership voted it in. DW refused to sign it though, and that was the end of CCair.

So I ask you, why did DW refuse to sign off on CCAir's contract, knowing it would put them all on the street?

The why did he sign off on the Mesa contract, which was demonstrably worse in all respects to the CCAir contract?

I'm genuinely curious about your reply. My own thoughts are that the needs of the Mesa group to absorb CCAir and get the CRJ9's (1000+ pilots) outweighed the needs of the CCAir group (200 or so pilots), so the CCAir pilots were sold down the river.

As to why he signed Mesa's crip contract and not CCAir's, I'm quite curious as to the official explanation.

More blah blah from the "I don't take responsibility for my career choices" crowd....

Some has to be blamed for the poor career conditions that we are currently in... I mean it can't just happen.....

What about DW refusing to sign the Midway (RDU) contract that put that company finally under....


But wait! Someone has to stop the slide. someone has to put an end to these lowering of the bar pay rates and work rules... so DW shut down CC and JI. But that makes him bad....

Everyone wants everyone else to fall on thier swords...

The fact is you ALPA-haters will always hate...because you need someone or soemthing to blame and some to pin the repsonsibility of your career choices...

What is really funny is most of your are Republicans.. yet you act like irresponsbile welfare recipients.....

Finally...thru democacry all of those concessionary TA's were voted on.... and thru democracy the Presidents salary was voted on.... voted on my the reps that you proabably didn't particapte in the elections...

Same ol stuff... nothing to see here... same ol misinformation, ignorant, haters...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How so? Please elaborate.

You are asking for critical thought... which will be difficult...based on the fact that the required information to do so..must be true....


But... please do....elaborate.....