ALPA taking 2% from Bonus

[John Pennekamp]

As DoinTime said, the President of the Association has many expenses that the average person doesn't, including the requirement to live in DC away from his home, expensive dinners with politicians, a car in DC, etc... But besides that, the average employee in America receives anywhere from 20%-40% of his salary in benefits. I haven't heard anyone ever include this amount when telling someone what they make, but the DOL requires ALPA and all other unions to report it as "compensation." The ALPA President is actually woefully underpaid. The job basically amounts to giving up your entire life for your term of office. For eight years in office, not mentioning his previous positions that had similar workloads, Duane was working about 330 days a year. His average day had him busy from sun-up to sun-down. Prater's schedule is the same, Babbit's was the same, and so on. The job of the President of the Association is non-stop. Would you give up your entire life for the next eight years just for $350k? I wouldn't. Very few people will. If you drop it to $200k, even fewer people will. You need to compensate people for the work that they do, and for the expertise that they provide. Very few pilots would be able to do the job that DW did. He almost single-handedly put us on the map on Capital Hill for the past decade. Other Presidents had certainly done the work, as do ALPA's lobbyists, but no one else had built the relationships and respect on the Hill that Duane was able to. Now, many of the congressmen and senators that Duane befriended are important committee chairmen that could make differences in our careers. Whereas ALPA wouldn't have been a second thought to them before, DW's work with them has changed that. That in and of itself is enough to earn his salary as far as I'm concerned.

Ya, ok, I'm sure DC is SOOOO much more expensive than Duane's beach residence in Clearwater, FL

Y'all can stop defending him. He is guilty of the same thing as the CEOs he lambasted. Stealing money from the workers, doing nothing with it, and retiring a very rich man, with no progress to show for it.

 

[Soverytired]

You ALPA haters are a bunch of whiners.

You want ALPA to put the compensation bar high?

Good.

So, what committee do you volunteer for?
How many LEC meetings have you been to?
Did you participate in your last LEC election?
How many picketing events have you gone to?
How much do you contribute to ALPA-PAC?

Turbo

Ahh, the battered wife syndrome defense.

It's YOUR fault your husband beats you. You need to work harder and things will all be better. Because it's all YOUR fault, don't you see? You can't possibly expect HIM to deliver anything.

 

[Soverytired]

As DoinTime said, the President of the Association has many expenses that the average person doesn't, including the requirement to live in DC away from his home, expensive dinners with politicians, a car in DC, etc...

Fair enough. But I would expect this cost to go down DRAMATICALLY for the past two years. As I understand it (and I'm no expert), the amount of $$$ that politicians can legally accept via fancy dinners has been severely curtailed in recent years via ethics reform legislation.

Care to predict if the expenses of the new President will go UP or DOWN this year?

The ALPA President is actually woefully underpaid. The job basically amounts to giving up your entire life for your term of office. For eight years in office, not mentioning his previous positions that had similar workloads, Duane was working about 330 days a year. His average day had him busy from sun-up to sun-down. Prater's schedule is the same, Babbit's was the same, and so on. The job of the President of the Association is non-stop.

Thanks for the honest reply. Herein lies out root disagreement, I think.

• You argue that because he works hard, he deserves lots of money.
• I argue that he should be paid based on results (excuses don't count for executive level positions), not on how many hours he clocks in.

After all, the hardest workers in the world get paid almost nothing. Be they sweatshop workers in China, or minimum wage Joe's in the US, they work very hard and make almost nothing. Why?

Because not much is really expected of them. I'd have to say that the President of an organization with a quarter of a billion dollars in cash has A LOT expected of him.

I don't think DW met the bar. One a-holes opinion, of course.

 

[Soverytired]

Y
It wasn't ALPA that sold out CCAir and negotiated that crappy contract. It was the Mesa Pilot group. Everything you call your own is a direct reflection of yourself. Your contract did not meet any of the criteria for rejection by ALPA so DW had to sign it.

I can't speak intelligently about the CCAir contract, other than to say that they voted it in, so they were obviously happy with it. They weren't allowed to "get involved" and negotiate their own contract though, were they?

The Mesa contract, however, was concessionary in every way except pay. It was a dramatic step backwards for the Mesa pilot group, which didn't have much of a contract to begin with. What they lost in their new contract off the top of my head:

• Loss of move days (that's right . . your domicile closes, you'll be moving whenever you happen to have a day off)
• Scheduling rules opening the door for "camping trips"
• No pay for PC checks (except per diem)
• Scheduling rules allowing 10 hour ready reserve (re: airport reserve) shifts

And so forth. DW sure didn't have a problem signing off on this POS.

Now, I hasten to add, the Mesa pilots voted it in (overwhelmingly), so ultimately, they're responsible for it. I think the CCAir pilots should have been given the same courtesy.

 

[PCL_128]

Ya, ok, I'm sure DC is SOOOO much more expensive than Duane's beach residence in Clearwater, FL

What does that have to do with anything? Duane's house in Florida isn't any of my concern. The fact that he has to keep a second resident in DC is. The Association requires him to keep a residence in DC, so the Association needs to provide him with that residence since it isn't where he would normally live.

Y'all can stop defending him. He is guilty of the same thing as the CEOs he lambasted. Stealing money from the workers, doing nothing with it, and retiring a very rich man, with no progress to show for it.

"Stealing money?" He was paid whatever the BOD approved for him. I don't remember hearing any "nays" coming from the ASA table when the President's compensation resolution was being voted on at the BOD, so I assume that you didn't have a problem with it. Either that, or you're too spineless to voice your true opinion. Which was it? One of the other officers in my council at PCL sat on the compensation committee at the last BOD. Did he witness an outcry from the other members of the committee about lowering the compensation? Nope. You can't blame the President for getting paid what the BOD decides to pay him. Remember, Prater, the guy you voted for, campaigned saying that he wouldn't accept this "big" compensation package. What did he do? Exactly what Duane did. He took the money without so much as a small objection. The fact is that the BOD determines the President's compensation. The Officers aren't even allowed to be in the room when the BOD votes on the resolutions. If you want to complain about compensation, then point your blame at the BOD. Oh wait, that was you!

 

[PCL_128]

Care to predict if the expenses of the new President will go UP or DOWN this year?

They'll be roughly the same. The job of the President hasn't changed, so neither will the cost of doing business.

Thanks for the honest reply. Herein lies out root disagreement, I think.

• You argue that because he works hard, he deserves lots of money.
• I argue that he should be paid based on results (excuses don't count for executive level positions), not on how many hours he clocks in.

After all, the hardest workers in the world get paid almost nothing. Be they sweatshop workers in China, or minimum wage Joe's in the US, they work very hard and make almost nothing. Why?

Because not much is really expected of them. I'd have to say that the President of an organization with a quarter of a billion dollars in cash has A LOT expected of him.

I don't think DW met the bar. One a-holes opinion, of course.

How do you quantify "results" in order to set compensation? I would argue that Duane brought the best results of any President in quite some time. You and many other rank-and-file members would argue differently. How do you quantify this to set compensation? Simply, you can't. That's why it's the job of the BOD to determine compensation and to vote on national Officers. If you have a problem with either, then you talk with your status reps, who are the BOD members, and tell them how you want them to vote. Democracy in action.

 

[PCL_128]

I can't speak intelligently about the CCAir contract, other than to say that they voted it in, so they were obviously happy with it.

Their happiness with it is irrelevant. The fact that it was clearly in violation of the ALPA Constitution and Bylaws isn't.

The Mesa contract, however, was concessionary in every way except pay. It was a dramatic step backwards for the Mesa pilot group, which didn't have much of a contract to begin with.

No, it really wasn't. Yes, some items were traded to make gains in other areas, but when looked at as a whole, the overall contract was a step forward. ALPA policy looks at the entire agreement, not just a few parts here and there. The single issue of Scope was a large enough gain to offset lots of other issues, and was the driving factor in these negotiations. The MAG agreement was compliant with ALPA policy, and the CCAir agreement was not. That's pretty simple, and that's why Duane had to reject the CCAir contract.

 

[TurboAWD]

Ahh, the battered wife syndrome defense.

It's YOUR fault your husband beats you. You need to work harder and things will all be better. Because it's all YOUR fault, don't you see? You can't possibly expect HIM to deliver anything.

Who is the wife and who is the husband? ALPA is made up of the pilots, so they are the same.

As far as "work harder", I would be happy to see "work at all".

Turbo

 

[eaglefly]

Can you objectively explain what DW did...while in office... in terms of the profession. Not in terms of "whats in it for me..."

Also, please explain the 2006 BOD election dynamic that lost DW the election..... please include the UAL and CAL factor..... including UAL's MB.


As long as you keep the fight in here... management will keep laughing at us skilled hourly wage pilots...

I wish I could tell you what DW "did" while in office.

I'm still trying to figure that out myself..............

 

[eaglefly]

ignorant



They voted via democracy...



AMR, APA....


I know FA's that can whine better than you...




Keep your eye on YOUR career....




That is all they can do. See, in order to be effective one has to accept responsibility for themselves. Like children who depend on others and when it doesn't go their way... what do they do.....whine... becuase they can't do anything else...they have given control over to others...



Oh they want ALPA to do all the work... what they want is thier fellow pilots to volunteer thier time off while they enjoy thier time off...




Are you kididng.. that would take a self starter and critical thought... no..volunteer committee work is for smart pilots... not the freeloaders who show up, fly thier trip and go home..




Please... there are high scores on Xbox to obtain... why would I want to go to a meeting..and particapte in domocacy... voice my opinon and try and understand the issues..



Ha! Turbo you silly silly man.... that would mean I am an American and I have American values. That I believe in our consitution and I recognize the sacrifice of the US Armed forces that give thier lives so that we can practice deomocracy in its many forms. No no.. I'd rather just let the company unilaterally control my career.... Like the Matrix... eating the steak.... ignorance is bliss... just put me back in the Matrix...and I don't want to remember anything..



You crazy boy! Picketing events require a little bit of courage... besides...I wanna get the high score on Xbox




Now you've done it!!

Entire post last seen floating in a toilet, colored brown with icky toilet paper clinging to it.

 

[eaglefly]

They'll be roughly the same. The job of the President hasn't changed, so neither will the cost of doing business.



How do you quantify "results" in order to set compensation? I would argue that Duane brought the best results of any President in quite some time. You and many other rank-and-file members would argue differently. How do you quantify this to set compensation? Simply, you can't. That's why it's the job of the BOD to determine compensation and to vote on national Officers. If you have a problem with either, then you talk with your status reps, who are the BOD members, and tell them how you want them to vote. Democracy in action.

Both ALPA and I believe you are overpaid. Their secretary's who live in the DC area should be paid more..............and probably are.

 

[TurboAWD]

So now you think AirTran FO's are overpaid?

You really are brilliant.

Turbo

 

[TurboAWD]

Entire post last seen floating in a toilet, colored brown with icky toilet paper clinging to it.

Along with all our careers, thanks to pilots like you.

Turbo

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I wish I could tell you what DW "did" while in office.

I'm still trying to figure that out myself..............

And that is the problem... you don't have a clue. No idea. and your education and understanding is who's repsonsbility? Who is obligated to put information in your head? Another fault of ALPA? DW or JP?

The problem with guys like you and soverytired are you act like kids. My five year old has a better appreciation and understanding of what it takes to makes sure that life goes on.

Basically your guys are spoiled ungrateful kids. You don't appreciate the work that others do for you just so you can show up, fly your trip and go home without concern.

HAve you ever taken any responsbility for yours or another pilots career?

 

[eaglefly]

And that is the problem... you don't have a clue. No idea. and your education and understanding is who's repsonsbility? Who is obligated to put information in your head? Another fault of ALPA? DW or JP?

The problem with guys like you and soverytired are you act like kids. My five year old has a better appreciation and understanding of what it takes to makes sure that life goes on.

Basically your guys are spoiled ungrateful kids. You don't appreciate the work that others do for you just so you can show up, fly your trip and go home without concern.

HAve you ever taken any responsbility for yours or another pilots career?

Hardly a kid. Been flying 26 years. ALPA never taught me what it means to be a pilot and sadly never will. They taught me politics and apathetic disregard though.

By the way, I see your current psition is "fixing ALPA". Why would you need to fix something that isn't broken ?