ALPA sues SKYW

[Nightrain_080]

HelloNewman,

Congratulations. You get to represent the Atkin Kennel Club at the big show in St. George. Just remember, when you are posing and prancing in front of the judges, to keep that shaved ass of yours held up nice and high like the proud little puppy that you are. Then when it comes time to hand out those blue ribbons, it'll be such an exciting time for you, but for the love of God, Newman, you gotta try not to squeeze out a dookie on the astroturf. Because, God forbid you were ever an embarrassment to Master Jerry, right?

LMAO

Newwoman you should always use a mirror while bic-ing your azze!!!

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Double post

 

[s.o.sJTB]

WOW, sounds familiar. The last thing I want is a weak ALPA union at SkyWest full of managment hacks like SAPA. Reactive rather than proactive. I guess I'll just have to vote Teamsters.

Thats the reason for the delay in the vote. I am sure the vote would pass with the a slight majority but that is not what we want. ALPA should start off with a strong message that we as a pilot group are finally unified with a strong legal voice. ALPA is being pro-active in the sense that there is still alot of educating to be done in person, face to face, with our pilot group, especially with the "its better than my old job at Mesa" group of new hires.

With the OC asserting is LEGAL rights to organize and present the benefits of Unity as outlined in the RLA they have already shown management they cant just ignore the issues and they have to COMPROMISE if not, than a court order will. That is the effectivness of a Union and legal representation, management cant say things like "pay negotiations ore off the table at this time" like they did with SAPA with no repurcussions to their at whim decisions.

 

[Weasil]

Laynards are against our uniform policy period. It is not an ALPA thing it is a matter of policy. .

This is not correct. Here's what the policy manual actually says.

Crewmember Identification Badge​

A. FAA regulations require that your identification badge be visible on the
outermost garment above the waist when in a Security Identification Display
Area (SIDA) area. This includes onboard the aircraft when the main cabin door
is open.
1) In the interest of personal security, the Company does not recommend that
your identification badge be visible during flight. The FAA does not
recommend wearing neck chains. These are recommendations only.
2) If you choose to wear your identification badge during flight:
a) Your Company identification badge and your corresponding airport
badge may be visible.​

If neck chains are used with the identification badge, the chain must be
gold, silver, plain dark navy or plain black with a width not to exceed
one-eighth (1/8) of an inch. Designer neck chains are acceptable as long
as they do not distract from the overall professional image of the
uniform.​

Designer chains may be gold, silver, two tone gold, silver or
black, and may not exceed 1 inch in height or ½ inch in width. Charms
must meet the above color guidelines, and may not exceed ¾ inch in
length and 1/3 inch in width. Charms must be airline oriented. Clip and
pull I.D. holders are acceptable. Logo neck chains are not acceptable
unless they say SkyWest Airlines.​

 

[Ski Bum]

this is evidence of the 'us vs. them' mindset that is usually inherent with ALPA: 'do what we say or we'll strike, sue, or shut this mother down!' that is not the type of environment I want to work in



I want to work in an environment that does not hinder my right to free speech or organize a labor union. The SKYW OC has been doing more than its share of trying to compromise with SKYW for almost a year and it was SKYW ILLEGAL actions that brought about this litigation. Instead of everyone jumping up and blaming ALPA, I wonder why nobody seems to think that Good Old Skywest is to blame?

After all this is the company that promised an 18 month pay package that went on for what felt like forever, changed how they calculate cancellation pay, admittedly violates seniority with regard to ASE flying, decreased block times by an average of 8% (reference to SAPA email “Questions to Brad Holt”), and completely ignored 25% of the pilot group in the last pay package. And now, it appears they are violating the RLA laws and attempting to snuff out the pilot’s voice.

I don’t want to work in an “us vs. them” environment either, but even more than that, I don’t want to work somewhere that can continue to break the law and do whatever they wish with regard to my career, pay, and quality of life without any recourse. If this lawsuit shows anything, it shows the POSITIVE aspect of having a unified voice that is willing to stand up for the desires of the pilot group against a management used to doing whatever it wants.

 

[Ralgha]

Notice the last sentance.

I think they're going to lose that particular argument.

24. Crewmember Identification Badge
A. FAA regulations require that your identification badge be visible on the
outermost garment above the waist when in a Security Identification Display
Area (SIDA) area. This includes onboard the aircraft when the main cabin door
is open.
1) In the interest of personal security, the Company does not recommend that
your identification badge be visible during flight. The FAA does not
recommend wearing neck chains. These are recommendations only.
2) If you choose to wear your identification badge during flight:
a) Your Company identification badge and your corresponding airport
badge may be visible.
b) If neck chains are used with the identification badge, the chain must be
gold, silver, plain dark navy or plain black with a width not to exceed
one-eighth (1/8) of an inch. Designer neck chains are acceptable as long
as they do not distract from the overall professional image of the
uniform. Designer chains may be gold, silver, two tone gold, silver or
black, and may not exceed 1 inch in height or ½ inch in width. Charms
must meet the above color guidelines, and may not exceed ¾ inch in
length and 1/3 inch in width. Charms must be airline oriented. Clip and
pull I.D. holders are acceptable. Logo neck chains are not acceptable
unless they say SkyWest Airlines.

 

[Weasil]

Notice the last sentance.

I think they're going to lose that particular argument.

Actually they already won it, the judge agreed apparently enough to issue the Temporary Restraining order, or so I heard today.

 

[Ralgha]

Actually they already won it, the judge agreed apparently enough to issue the Temporary Restraining order, or so I heard today.

There's a reason it's called "temporary". The company will argue it's side, and I think they will win more points than they lose.

 

[SSDD]

Without taking a position on the ALPA vs Skywest issue, the issue is that the rule is being "selectively" enforced. Only the ones with the ALPA logo on them are considered contrary to the uniform policy.

 

[skypine69]

SSDD,
you are correct. the ALPA lanyards are the only ones that any CP seems to care about. now, back to newman, if read my post you see that this CP did this in the crew lounge with many other pilots and FAs around. Do you consider that professional? do you consider that to be a hostile work enviornment? is that the kind of management that is there for the pilots? If a CP is so unprofessional in this regard, how is he going to act when there is a real issue?

 

[Erlanger]

Without taking a position on the ALPA vs Skywest issue, the issue is that the rule is being "selectively" enforced. Only the ones with the ALPA logo on them are considered contrary to the uniform policy.

you are correct. the ALPA lanyards are the only ones that any CP seems to care about. now, back to newman, if read my post you see that this CP did this in the crew lounge with many other pilots and FAs around. Do you consider that professional? do you consider that to be a hostile work enviornment? is that the kind of management that is there for the pilots? If a CP is so unprofessional in this regard, how is he going to act when there is a real issue?

Actually, they have been going after pilots and flight attendants that have been wearing lanyards that say anything on them other then "Skywest". The rumor is that the company have been documenting these incidents. Most of the violations are for wearing beer lanyards most commonly saying "Budweiser" on them. Sounds like they knew this was going to happen. It was suggested that maybe the Skywest OC gave out the Budweiser lanyards to see if management would let them slide. It's all been documented and they plan on presenting time and place of all lanyard violations. This should be funny!

 

[Morning Wood]

It is important for SKYW pilots to realize that the Organizing Committee filed the lawsuit as a LAST resort. It was only after management didn’t respond to letters and phone calls that the OC determined that our right to organize and the success of something we believe in was being illegally hindered.
I can assure you that SKYW management was tearing down fliers from bulletin boards, kicking OC members out of the training center when we attempted to distribute materials to new hires, and not allowing us access to the crewrooms. These are all items that are our fundamental rights granted under the Railway Labor Act. SKYW chose to ignore the law and the OC did the right thing in calling them on it.
I also want to say that the Organizing drive is alive and well. Cards continue to come in on a daily basis. Although some pilots who have made up their mind are growing tired of hearing about ALPA, many pilots are still gathering information so that they can make an informed decision about their future. Also, many new hires have not had the opportunity to learn about the drive due to managements tactics. Instead of throwing around inflammatory remarks, why don’t we allow people to gather information unfettered, make a decision, and vote.

Oh I see...so if someone with previous ALPA experience says "No Thanks", they're not making an informed decision. It would behoove the people who are so hell bent on getting ALPA on property to examine the motivies of some of the people who keep showing up on the OC. Some of them have been spewing their anti-management and hate for Jerry Atkin for over 20 years. I would encourage you to get just as informed about those that want to take you to battle with JA as you need to be about ALPA itself.

 

[Weasil]

It would behoove the people who are so hell bent on getting ALPA on property to examine the motivies of some of the people who keep showing up on the OC. Some of them have been spewing their anti-management and hate for Jerry Atkin for over 20 years. I would encourage you to get just as informed about those that want to take you to battle with JA as you need to be about ALPA itself.

If these people are as eager to go "to battle with JA" as you say they are, then you simply have to vote no if they run for office if we do vote to join ALPA. What you are forgetting is that being in a union is not something that happens to you, it is something you can participate in and direct if you choose to do so.
At one of my previous airlines ( both of which were ALPA) we had an MEC in power who did things their own way regardless of the wishes of the majority. As a pilot group, we voted them all out of office and elected new MEC reps and new LEC reps. This was also preceeded by a complete change in the members of several committees, including the negotiating committee, and the changes were almost immediate.
Here's what I'm trying to say, being in ALPA doesn't mean you lose your voice, it gives you a stronger voice to participate in directing your own future. The systems works only as well as those who volunteer their time and participate in it. There is no reason why any of the OC members would be MEC reps under ALPA unless the pilot group votes them into office, you get to choose.

If you are happy with the guys who are running SAPA right now, then vote them into office if we become ALPA, and the only thing that will change is that the agreements they enter into with mgmt on our behalf become legally binding.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Oh I see...so if someone with previous ALPA experience says "No Thanks", they're not making an informed decision. It would behoove the people who are so hell bent on getting ALPA on property to examine the motivies of some of the people who keep showing up on the OC. Some of them have been spewing their anti-management and hate for Jerry Atkin for over 20 years. I would encourage you to get just as informed about those that want to take you to battle with JA as you need to be about ALPA itself.

I don't know a single person on th OC who is, or has been "spewing their anti-management and hate for JA for over 20 years"!

 

[igneousy2]

I think the most damaging part of the complaint wasn't the lanyard complaint...it was the fact that Skywest funds SAPA which acts like a union. This is very clearly interference under the RLA.

This is straight from the RLA...

"it shall be unlawful for any carrier to interfere in any way with the organization of its employees, or to use the funds of the carrier in maintaining or assisting or contributing to any labor organizabion, labor representative, or other agency of collective bargaining, or in performing any work therefor"

I think ALPA will win on this point alone...keep your lanyard argument.

good luck

 

[Andy Neill]

Rick, SAPA is as useless as your posts. Oh, and Al Gore actually won the last election you war monger.

In fact, Al Gore wasn't even running in the last election. Perhaps you're thinking of the 2000 election. Didn't Kerry play a role in the 2004 election?

nothing more stupid than a pilot pretending he knows something about politics, and also thinking he is so smart that he can voice himself on a aviation slam board. morons......

Huh. Pilots can't be informed about politics. That's news to me. I read the paper everyday, but I guess since I'm a pilot, I don't comprehend what I'm reading. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

...at least THIS pilot knows that Gore wasn't the one who lost the last election. Kerry was.

 

[Andy Neill]

This is not correct. Here's what the policy manual actually says.

Weasil, I don't have a policy manual in front of me, but I BET the section you quoted was in the Flight Attendant Uniform section. The verbage for the pilot's lanyard is different. I had a captain call me on my black lanyard one day because it wasn't gold or silver [black lanyards weren't allowed for flight attendants at that time]. I told him if I were a flight attendant, he would be correct. Since I was a pilot, my black lanyard was in keeping with uniform policy. Course at one time, the Policy Manual USED to say that all crewmembers [other than male flight attendants] had to wear a bra. You can bet I checked that my captains were in full compliance with THAT one.

 

[Weasil]

Here's what that section says again, I will repost it with emphasis added. It says that black lanyards are fine. I will admit though I haven't been wearing a bra... d'oh.

If neck chains are used with the identification badge, the chain must be
gold, silver, plain dark navy or plain black

 

[dbcooper71]

The growth is over, for all regionals. The only growth left is replacing 50 seaters with 90 seaters, and that's not growth at all.

I don't see how this is not growth. That is an 80% in capacity which means you need more F/As, more CS agents, and other support personnel. Maybe the number of aircraft isn't growing but capacity growth is still growth.

 

[BigLebowski]

Those ALPA lanyards are pathetic looking anyway. Even if I was in ALPA I wouldn't wear them...they look cheap. Oh wait I was in ALPA once and didn't wear it then.

You would think with all the money pilots pay to have that "wonderful" organization on property they would at least get a cool lanyard with that awesome magazine with Dr. Phil's cousin on it.