ALPA Scab-list

[Typhoon1244]

...I didn't call [Publishers] a scab because we "happen to disagree." It was because [he] clearly stated that [he] would cross a line if [he] didn't "agree with the fight or if you didn't like the chances of success." There's a difference.

My father--whom, as Publishers has pointed out, I've mentioned before--was strongly opposed to a strike by Eastern's pilots, and he voted against it. He felt it was the wrong way to fight Lorenzo, and he didn't think it could succeed.

But he didn't cross the line. Never.

Call it what you want--honor, integrity, brotherhood. It's what scabs lack.

 

[Publishers]

Hugh

I did not say that I would cross the line, I said I have no interest in employment where being in the union is required. Secondly, that I am not condeming those that do because I have seen numerous occassions where people are asked to fight someone elses fight. Thirdly, I have been at this long enough to know that the good contract is the one that gets 50.1% of the votes regardless of what that does to the other 49.9% of the people involved. That last is the reason that pay remains low on the bottom and heavy on top. Senior guys control. The two groups that always end up with the shaft are the "newly employed" and the "yet to be employed."

 

[TonyC]

Thirdly, I have been at this long enough to know that the good contract is the one that gets 50.1% of the votes regardless of what that does to the other 49.9% of the people involved.

If that's not the sentiment of scab-loving management, I don't know what is.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Maybe I am totally wrong but here is the bottom line if I had worked there. You want me to risk my families income and my career to not cross a line that I disagree with totally and think has no chance of winning, which then does not work and the company and my career cease to exist, and, then you condem me for not following you on this suicidal path. Not where I come from.

Sounds like the words of someone who would cross to me. Care to reconsider your last statement?

 

[TurboS7]

I wouldn't say too much there ex-military hot shot, until you have been there done that and proved yourself. At EAL most of the young ex-military guys did cross and went for that quick upgrade from FE to Captain.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

At EAL most of the young ex-military guys did cross and went for that quick upgrade from FE to Captain.

They didn't cross because they were ex-military, they crossed because they were scabs.

 

[bobbysamd]

Freedom quasi-scabs

[A]ny Freedom Air pilot is welcome on my jumpseat.

In no way would they be welcome on mine, if I had one.

I had met two of the original Freedom pilots several years ago. One was the former Mesa Chief Pilot who probably threw in the trash my letters requesting reconsideration of my application. I met this individual a few years later when I joined MAPD. He was a check airman and DE who gave Mesa pay-for-interview ATP practicals. Suffice it to say he passed some - and he failed some. I did not discuss with him my letters, but it was interesting to meet this individual in person.

The other was an ERAU-Prescott training manager. Being an ERAU training manager was a highly political position and he was a real politician. I was a stage check pilot, and we got crosswise because I failed a student on his oral. The student complained and he hauled me into his office. Suffice it to say the student did not meet PTS standards.

I was not surprised when I saw both names on the Freedom pilot list. If either of these folks had wanted to jumpseat on my airplane, I would tell them to go jump in the lake.

 

[Ted Striker]

I wouldn't say too much there ex-military hot shot, until you have been there done that and proved yourself. At EAL most of the young ex-military guys did cross and went for that quick upgrade from FE to Captain.

I wouldn't say too much there, scab-hot shot. You've already proved yourself to be a leechy, theiving scab.

 

[TurboS7]

I ran a 135 that was my own for 10 years. I came to hate pilots, I am sure that you would be right at the top of the list Striker. Typhoon at least has a reason to talk, his Dad may a decision and stuck with it to the end. Obviously being part of that decision he felt the impact of it more than any of you can know. Many guys didn't and they came across the line in droves after a few weeks. I am sure that in a long strike that one would see the same at any major airline.Comair was the exception as they had nothing to loose.

 

[Freight Dog]

I am sure that in a long strike that one would see the same at any major airline.Comair was the exception as they had nothing to loose.

Comair pilots had nothing to lose?? You walk, you lay it ALL on the line... and Comair pilots had one of the fastest-growing if not THE fastest growing airline in the nation, and they laid it all out for the injustice that regional pilots face even today. God bless them for it! You owe them an apology.

rEAL pilots laid it all out to support IAM strike. Bigger issues were at stake.. namely getting rid of Lorenzo. UAL pilots laid it all out on the line too. The thing is... more people crossing the line means a longer strike, means less benefits to potentially be reaped from a strike, means management doesn't take their unionized workers seriously if they buckle when push comes to shove... and who ultimately loses? EVERY worker, scab or not.

Shortsightedness at its best... back-stabbing at its worst...

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I ran a 135 that was my own for 10 years. I came to hate pilots

That explains a lot.

 

[Ted Striker]

I ran a 135 that was my own for 10 years. I came to hate pilots, I am sure that you would be right at the top of the list Striker.

You sound like you would be a tremendous boss. I can't imagine why the relationship was so bad, couldn't have been the "leadership", could it have. As long as you keep opening your mouth on issues such as scabs and strikes, this is the kind of response you will get from me. If I was at the top of your scumbag employee list, I would think I was doing something right just because you despised it so much. When you talk about Typhoon and his Dad, do you think about what people like you did to their families and kids like his? Just like there are no ex-Marines, there are no former SCABS.

 

[TurboS7]

Only told half the truth....I hate pilots but I love people and since they tend to be the same the latter wins. I feel sorry for the many controllers that were fired by President Reagan also...life goes on and it is no fun sometimes.I just can't figure out why pilot's are always so insecure......if baffles me.From an aviation business point of view they are the most secure group of the complete employee group, seems strange and I have never figured it out.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Only told half the truth....I hate pilots but I love people and since they tend to be the same the latter wins.

My, but you backpedal fast. Can't say I'm surprised.

...they came across the line in droves after a few weeks.

You're referring to the "Bavis scabs:" guys who paniced when the MEC chairman declared the strike a failure. In the continuum of hatred toward scabs, they earn slightly more respect than the others. It's the off-the-street guys who neither get nor deserve any respect whatsoever.

 

[Timebuilder]

If that's not the sentiment of scab-loving management, I don't know what is.

I don't have a dog in this fight, and for that I am eternally grateful. However, the quote TonyC made reference to is a basic tenent of the labor relations business. You negotiate what you can, and settle on what you can get.

My personal experience with labor, in three unions, is that a union contract becomes the "business plan" in large part, and that business plan serves a fraction of the union members and leaves many under-represented. Often it fails to serve the company at all, and the company is the reason that the members have jobs. The company does not exist because the members have a union.

I think this nuance of business dynamics is often lost on many people. Another lost nuance is the purpose of a union is to try and work against market forces. Aviation is a prime example of that principle.