ALPA President and Delta Connection ASA Pilots to Picket SkyWest Headquarters

[John Pennekamp]

One of the Salt Lake TV stations showed the picketing. Unfortunately they just said pilots and not ASA pilots. To the uninformed, they are going to think it was SkyWest's pilots. Maybe I underestimated ALPA's exercise today.

Bingo. Did you really think ALPA was gonna tell them about ASA? The message was "We're picketing Skywest".

 

[John Pennekamp]

Just saw a news brodcast...I owe an apology to ALPA and Capt. Woerth. He was there...The news showed him and Jerry face to face. He (capt. woerth) came off very arrogant and JA looked a little taken back. Not sure who to give round one too. If i had to score it, I would say 10-9 JA....

A little arrogant? Not that you're biased or anything?

I just spoke to someone who was there and apparently Jerry greeted the picket line then went on to argue with Duane about how ASA needs to be at industry average pay. Is Jerry that stupid that he thought he'd convince Duane of anything? Apparently, he really looked like an ass. Clearly, he's more naieve in union dealings than anyone thought.

 

[Blucher]

Homerjdispatch,

For some reason whenever I read any of your posts I get a picture in my head of you looking just like Jeff Anderson (sp?), though I'm not sure why. My appologies if I offend either one of you with that, it's just what I see in my mind.

-Blucher

 

[VeeOne]

Hell- I've been at ASA for 2 years, and I'm still trying to figure out what in the hell we are asking for........one moment it's industry average, then it's industry leading to raise the bar, then it's above average but everyone else will surpass us to make us subaverage only to make our target of industry average for the DCA that has specified our averageness........Clear to everyone- good. Carry On-

Oh, and for those that REALLY think raising the bar helps to push the industry forward, ask guys that have flown for the following how it's working for them:

-Comair
-Expressjet
-CCAir
-ACA

Being at the top of the pile hasn't done anyone any good. NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR SACRIFICE. Rather- your looked at as a member of the "Don't let this happen to you" club. If your really dead set on setting a top notch contract to raise the bar, and somehow think that translates into a master miracle of metamorphasis that cures ASA's problems to suddenly be the place to work- have yourself comitted.

Oh, and even if by some MAJOR miracle the entire regional industry pushes pay up a notch, some TARD will come in and start another "Lower than Low Cost Regional". AKA :Freedom/GoJet

 

[jea]

Hell- I've been at ASA for 2 years, and I'm still trying to figure out what in the hell we are asking for........one moment it's industry average, then it's industry leading to raise the bar, then it's above average but everyone else will surpass us to make us subaverage only to make our target of industry average for the DCA that has specified our averageness........Clear to everyone- good. Carry On-

Oh, and for those that REALLY think raising the bar helps to push the industry forward, ask guys that have flown for the following how it's working for them:

-Comair
-Expressjet
-CCAir
-ACA

Being at the top of the pile hasn't done anyone any good. NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR SACRIFICE. Rather- your looked at as a member of the "Don't let this happen to you" club. If your really dead set on setting a top notch contract to raise the bar, and somehow think that translates into a master miracle of metamorphasis that cures ASA's problems to suddenly be the place to work- have yourself comitted.

Oh, and even if by some MAJOR miracle the entire regional industry pushes pay up a notch, some TARD will come in and start another "Lower than Low Cost Regional". AKA :Freedom/GoJet

well said

 

[sweptback]

Hell- I've been at ASA for 2 years, and I'm still trying to figure out what in the hell we are asking for........one moment it's industry average, then it's industry leading to raise the bar, then it's above average but everyone else will surpass us to make us subaverage only to make our target of industry average for the DCA that has specified our averageness........Clear to everyone- good. Carry On-

If you really are an ASA pilot, sign on to the ASA MEC webpage. It quite plainly shows what we're asking for. They evey have pretty graphs that compare it to the DCI carriers (two of which will soon be in Section 6 negotiations).

 

[VeeOne]

If you really are an ASA pilot, sign on to the ASA MEC webpage. It quite plainly shows what we're asking for. They evey have pretty graphs that compare it to the DCI carriers (two of which will soon be in Section 6 negotiations).

Do they have the charts in color though- that's the important question????

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Hell- I've been at ASA for 2 years, and I'm still trying to figure out what in the hell we are asking for........one moment it's industry average, then it's industry leading to raise the bar, then it's above average but everyone else will surpass us to make us subaverage only to make our target of industry average for the DCA that has specified our averageness........Clear to everyone- good. Carry On-

Oh, and for those that REALLY think raising the bar helps to push the industry forward, ask guys that have flown for the following how it's working for them:

-Comair
-Expressjet
-CCAir
-ACA

Being at the top of the pile hasn't done anyone any good. NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR SACRIFICE. Rather- your looked at as a member of the "Don't let this happen to you" club. If your really dead set on setting a top notch contract to raise the bar, and somehow think that translates into a master miracle of metamorphasis that cures ASA's problems to suddenly be the place to work- have yourself comitted.

Oh, and even if by some MAJOR miracle the entire regional industry pushes pay up a notch, some TARD will come in and start another "Lower than Low Cost Regional". AKA :Freedom/GoJet

Well, Horizon pilots seem to be doing just fine...company is profitable, and the pilots make $20 an hour more than me at my seniority, and they match 10% on their 401K compared to our measly 6%. Don't buy into the misleading and untruthful argument by management that a few dollars more per flight hour for crews are the end all in the airlines ability to compete! Its only a very small percentage of the overall cost of operating the aircraft!!!

 

[VeeOne]

Well, Horizon pilots seem to be doing just fine...company is profitable, and the pilots make $20 an hour more than me at my seniority, and they match 10% on their 401K compared to our measly 6%. Don't buy into the misleading and untruthful argument by management that a few dollars more per flight hour for crews are the end all in the airlines ability to compete! Its only a very small percentage of the overall cost of operating the aircraft!!!

I can definately understand your point- however, there gets to be a point where you try and make chicken salad out of chicken s#@t. What I mean is, with a tallentless management like we have at ASA, we have to give them all we can to make up for their mental handicap....follow me??? (simple numbers = simple math)

Horizon is partly owned by Alaskan......Unfortunately we lost our wholely owned subsidiary advantage. In addition to that, they don't have the burden of a 100+aircraft fleet of inefficient, fuel guzzling, airspace backlogging 50 seaters.......don't take offense- I drive one.

 

[SSDD]

Horizon is a different type of regional. You can not compare any other regional to Horizon. They have a niche.

 

[Blucher]

I can definately understand your point- however, there gets to be a point where you try and make chicken salad out of chicken s#@t. What I mean is, with a tallentless management like we have at ASA, we have to give them all we can to make up for their mental handicap....follow me??? (simple numbers = simple math)

Horizon is partly owned by Alaskan......Unfortunately we lost our wholely owned subsidiary advantage. In addition to that, they don't have the burden of a 100+aircraft fleet of inefficient, fuel guzzling, airspace backlogging 50 seaters.......don't take offense- I drive one.

This is contradictory and makes little sense.

-Blucher

 

[oceandude]

What happend you all the ALPA unity??? HMMM..............

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Horizon is a different type of regional. You can not compare any other regional to Horizon. They have a niche.

How so??? You mean SKYW doesn't compare because we are much more profitable than they are? Give me some good reasons for them to be so much higher compensated than us? Even with their "high" employee costs Frontier wanted to expand their feed from Horizon, it was Horizon that chose to bring their equipment back for their own use.

 

["GO AROUND"]

The attitude of all these SKYW pilots simply freakin amazes me!!! ASA pilots are, and have been for OVER 4 YEARS, trying to negotiate a contract within the rules and confines of the railway labor act. And what are we negotiating for? Better wages and work rules to raise the bar a bit for this profession!!! Isnt that what we all want??? I just don't get you guys for constantly bashing us like were trying to kick some puppies!!! I realize life is great over there in Utah, but look across the fence at what we are going through and what we are trying to accomplish! You will benefit from our gains, as will the rest of this pathetic industry. Would we gain more respect from you guys if we were rolling over or undercutting you guys to try to take some of your flying and bring it to ASA???? It seems like it. Maybe since thats the mentality of so many of your pilots, you would respect that more because you understand it. Why picket SGU? Because that is the HQ of our parent company. Picketing is one of very few tools an airline union has to pressure the company in some way, any way. It is a tactic used in this industry by many of your peers. From FedEx to United to American to Delta. That is how it works. So, you guys hate unions. Great. That works for you. But we at ASA have one, and they are working to get us a fair contract, that at least brings us up to what you SKYW pilots currently enjoy, and maybe improve it a bit. Improvements that maybe you could ask to match in the future. We are at least not out trying to undercut everybody for their flying, further lowering the bar. Just cut us a break, walk a mile in our shoes. We are losing our aircraft to you at SKYW. We have deliveries slated for us diverted to you. You have had more upgrades this month than we have had all year! But yet you guys bash us for fighting to at least improve our work rules, job protection and pay, legally, with the means afforded us. It just makes no sense to me. So.....we picketed SJU. Just show some support, because as it is, you look like a bunch of greedy guys, joyous in your gains while we suffer our losses. Its no wonder many of the rest of the industry look down on you.

Couldn't have said it any better. Nice post.

 

[SkyNation]

For the record, I don't have any problem with ASA guys or what you're trying to accomplish. Where I do have a problem is when you attack US for not joining the ALPA club. All we have to do is look at how it has worked for ya'll to realize that our way (though it has it's own flaws) works better for us. I'm all for saying either 'you guys do it your way, we'll do it ours' OR 'you guys join the club, ask for a carbon copy of what we have and let's move on.' thing is, Unionazis like Tomct are quick to flame that we really don't have it so good and we'd do well to adopt an anti-managment position and draw up battle plans because 'we're next.' No thanks. I don't want to work in an environment like that. As to your points:

The attitude of all these SKYW pilots simply freakin amazes me!!! ASA pilots are, and have been for OVER 4 YEARS, trying to negotiate a contract within the rules and confines of the railway labor act. And what are we negotiating for? Better wages and work rules to raise the bar a bit for this profession!!! Isnt that what we all want??? I just don't get you guys for constantly bashing us like were trying to kick some puppies!!!

Again, your way doesn't seem to be working so well, and that goes back well before you were bought by Inc. Not a very good sales pitch to recruit us.

I realize life is great over there in Utah

Agreed, so why would we want to change to the way life is over there in ATL?

Would we gain more respect from you guys if we were rolling over or undercutting you guys to try to take some of your flying and bring it to ASA????

No, you would gain more respect if you directed your anger at where it belongs, instead of at us. We didn't cause your problems.

So, you guys hate unions. Great. That works for you. But we at ASA have one, and they are working to get us a fair contract, that at least brings us up to what you SKYW pilots currently enjoy, and maybe improve it a bit.

Yet again, sounds like it isn't working so well. Why should we ditch our way of doing things over here? I'd really like to hear a well thought out response from anyone with clear, non-inflammatory ideas------not so fast Tomct!!

Improvements that maybe you could ask to match in the future.

We already enjoy better overall pay, QOL, and future prospects. We're not playing catch-up here, quite the contrary.

Just cut us a break, walk a mile in our shoes. We are losing our aircraft to you at SKYW. We have deliveries slated for us diverted to you. You have had more upgrades this month than we have had all year! But yet you guys bash us for fighting to at least improve our work rules, job protection and pay, legally, with the means afforded us. It just makes no sense to me. So.....we picketed SJU. Just show some support, because as it is, you look like a bunch of greedy guys, joyous in your gains while we suffer our losses. Its no wonder many of the rest of the industry look down on you.

like I said above, I hope ya'll get everything your after. However, if history is any indicator, it is not on your side.

I told everyone that would listen that I wanted nothing to do with ASA becoming part of our 'family.' Of course that didn't matter, but I take no comfort or glee in seeing ya'll go through what you are. At the same time, I'm amazed by zealots who are trying to convert us to the ALPA way while all this goes on.

I wish you the best of luck. I'll hope that cooler heads will prevail. I think everyone at SkyWest feels the same.

 

[thebest]

How is ASA's contract not good enough compaired to the rest? THEBEST

 

[79%N1]

The "way things are going" IS NOT THE FAULT OF ALPA OR UNIONS!!!!!!!!

It is the fault of whipsawing, and bottom feeder airlines like Mesa and Skywest (50 seat pay to 99 seaters)! Stop saying this is a union thing. Without our union, we would be in a hugh mess!!! They/it is not to blame! The blame is pressure to reduce our costs to keep up with others willing to underbid us for our flying! NOT THE UNION! Things are a mess for us at ASA because Skywest Inc is taking our airplanes and flying, and giving it to Skywest pilots. We want you to unionize to maybe put a stop to this, and insulate you SKYW pilots from facing it in the future, when they come for you next! How can you look at ASA and say you pin our problems on our having a union. Look in the mirror. There is our problem.

 

[PCL_128]

I just spoke to someone who was there and apparently Jerry greeted the picket line then went on to argue with Duane about how ASA needs to be at industry average pay.

Not only that, but he actually handed Captain Woerth a bunch of propoganda that he had compiled. Of course, Duane quickly threw it aside (on camera) and proceded to tell Jerry how things are going to be. Jerry didn't even know how to respond and just walked away embarrassed. A truly beautiful thing, and all recorded by the cameras. :smash:

 

[Morning Wood]

Not only that, but he actually handed Captain Woerth a bunch of propoganda that he had compiled. Of course, Duane quickly threw it aside (on camera) and proceded to tell Jerry how things are going to be. Jerry didn't even know how to respond and just walked away embarrassed. A truly beautiful thing, and all recorded by the cameras. :smash:

And HOW is it going to be?

 

[Morning Wood]

Bingo. Did you really think ALPA was gonna tell them about ASA? The message was "We're picketing Skywest".

No. But as often as KSL shows SkyWest on the TV, you'd think they'd do their homework and report who was picketing whom and not report something that is pretty cryptic or even misleading.