ALPA on Emirates and Etihad

[General Lee]

Its hopeless Mr. Green, I was first stating facts and correcting Delta guy's "Facts" and he turns it into a "which job is better" match when you prove him wrong time and time again. He lives in a hole.

All EK pilots agree Emirates plays an unfair game in regards to labor costs for unskilled workers.

It is quite clear the threat Emirates now poses to legacies in regards to widebody international.

I could personally care less if Emirates flies from Europe direct to America. I was just relaying the news and I get attacked for it.

Its just a job to me. Flying DXB-MXP-JFK-MXP-DXB for a 6 day trip just means I will be away from my family longer.

Love it or hate it, Emirates is a behemoth. Cities like Detroit are begging them for service.

Who really should feel threatened is FedEx and UPS, not Delta. All that junk from china and africa goes through Dubai, than to America, Aussie, Europe instead of on Fed Ex.

EK skycargo just started service to O'hare on their 777's from copenhagen.

EK Skycargo is soon to become the world's biggest "cargo airline" in terms of international kg per mile. The cargo in the belly is where the money is made...the premium seats on top is just GRAAAAVVVY.

The US legacies are primarily protected by distance. EK can try to get slots or gate space for more INTL flights, but they may be tougher to get than you think. Right now you have 1 flight not being nonstop from DXB to the US (MXP) and you are claiming it's over for us? What? Which other countries other than Italy (broke btw), has ALLOWED it? Most, other than Italy for you guys and Greece (gave EY authority for ATH to JFK) won't allow it. Try Germany and France, see what they say? How about Japan or Korea? They want their own airlines to thrive. I guess you can try Australia, but Qantas will likely say NO, since they gave you some Europe connections. So, please come up with some examples, maybe some other broke nations that need your help. Doubtful....

And DL, Hawaiian, and ALPA are trying to stop your misuse of those cheap loans. Sounds like you don't care, so no biggie.

EK Skycargo will be big, but again that will move oversized cargo in and out of DXB to SE Asia, Africa, etc. If you move into the parcel business, UPS and FedEx, much bigger than your airline, will get involved and pound you back into sand. If your country doesn't allow the competition, then SkyCargo will lose slots here and in Europe, and you will lose.

The good thing here is that focus is shifting towards the ME and examining the airlines, and if there are things that aren't fair, they are dealt with now. That's good. I see more restrictions occurring because of the subsidies and unfair labor practices etc. Protectionism from Europe and Canada may spread if these issues aren't dealt with.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Golden Falcon]

with the developement of longer range airplanes, Dubai will be irrelevant anyway...no long term worries for the US or European airlines.....

 

[flyboyike]

Delta has 25 million Skymiles members, always looking for that extra upgrade in status. (buying a European Ticket really adds to it) AA and UA have the same. All 3 also have huge connections, along with EK's tie to Jetblue. So, I have a feeling everyone will be alright. And thanks to the downturn in the Italian economy, not everyone will be able to afford a 1st class ticket on EK, with it's ultra diamond premium service. Also, when those guys get off the super duper rich first class seat from the EK 773, do they really want to get on a JB flight to LAS? With the "commoners?" Hardly. They want to sit in First Class with larger seats ALL THE WAY....

That's not what I asked.

 

[Green]

with the developement of longer range airplanes, Dubai will be irrelevant anyway...no long term worries for the US or European airlines.....

Longer range than the 777-300ER and 777-200LR of which EK has many? Haven't seen those on the drawing board yet. But i'm sure you are right. Emirates will soon be irrelevant once UAL starts operating routes like Cochin direct Houston or Accra direct Guangzhou.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Longer range than the 777-300ER and 777-200LR of which EK has many? Haven't seen those on the drawing board yet. But i'm sure you are right. Emirates will soon be irrelevant once UAL starts operating routes like Cochin direct Houston or Accra direct Guangzhou.

Heard Delta was going to fly heathrow direct Sydney (20+ hours flight time) and put "Emirates + Qantas" out of business

 

[Andy]

General lee and Andy are prime examples why pilots make the worst stock traders...even when they were wrong, instead of cutting their losses and moving on, they still think of excuses why they are right, until the blow up their account

Bummer about Boston. This country is full of 'bigots'.

 

[sniper]

This thread should be removed by the moderator. The category is MAJORS

put it under foreign airlines

 

[fareview]

Hey Sherlock...read the title.

As to the DAL guys moral high horse...ha! Your Skyteam partner airline is Saudia...you want to talk about subsidies & fuel prices ..and worker practices...

...and human rights? Not a problem for you guys when it's your partner ..is it?

Won't even mention your Chinese partners and freedom of speech.

Cry me a river

fv

 

[8sugarsugar]

its funny how this thread drifts, below is a summary

ALPA recognizes the threat Emirates poses
Emirates' unfair advantages
BTW, Emirates is going to start Milan-JFK 5th freedom, fyi
No, never ever, impossible says many that Emirates cannot and will be stopped

Not likely. Emirates is stepping into the middle of a p1ssing contest between US and Italian authorities. Besides, as I stated previously, JFK-MXP doesn't meet the criteria to grant 5th Freedom rights.

Emirates is no longer a threat
My job at Delta is better than your job at Emirates
Emirates officially announces its 5th freedom route to JFK and Milan
My job at Delta is way better than your job at Emirates.
Muslims are all terrorists
My layovers at Delta are better than yours

As long as unions, voters, and lobbyists can influence Congress members, it won't happen here. One Congressman from an airline hub city can throw a wrench in any foreign plan. Sorry Sugarsugar. Have fun in Dhaka.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Emirates is now a threat again
Emirates is a bad job because of a training bond
A random Airbus 320 schedule from a different airline is bad, so logically a 777 schedule for Emirates is bad
I can be captain at Emirates before you because I'm better
Delta is a better job, again
Emirates is now somehow bad again because there was a bomb in Boston

 

[sniper]

its funny how this thread drifts, below is a summary

ALPA recognizes the threat Emirates poses
Emirates' unfair advantages
BTW, Emirates is going to start Milan-JFK 5th freedom, fyi
No, never ever, impossible says many that Emirates cannot and will be stopped



Emirates is no longer a threat
My job at Delta is better than your job at Emirates
Emirates officially announces its 5th freedom route to JFK and Milan
My job at Delta is way better than your job at Emirates.
Muslims are all terrorists
My layovers at Delta are better than yours



Emirates is now a threat again
Emirates is a bad job because of a training bond
A random Airbus 320 schedule from a different airline is bad, so logically a 777 schedule for Emirates is bad
I can be captain at Emirates before you because I'm better
Delta is a better job, again
Emirates is now somehow bad again because there was a bomb in Boston

You are right, I am from Boston and say f--- all the Gulf Airlines,
I am not discriminating anyone. Once a war breaks with Iran don't call for help m--- f---

 

[fareview]

Classy...

fv

 

[Varmint]

Do you all know something that everyone else doesn't know. There has been no connection made between the Mid East and the BOS incident. For all any of us know, this could be another Timothy McVeigh. Bigotry is alive and well.....wait for the facts.

 

[fareview]

EK to order 275 777Xs. see Bloomberg link.

This is great for American jobs and industry.

ALPA wont beat the Boeing machinists or the lobbyists for Americas largest exporter.

The US Open skies policy is designed to increase jobs and encourage vibrant competition for consumers. I would say at $315m a piece before discount - it has worked.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-777-successor-specs-before-making-order.html

fv

 

[johnsonrod]

EK to order 275 777Xs. see Bloomberg link.

This is great for American jobs and industry.

ALPA wont beat the Boeing machinists or the lobbyists for Americas largest exporter.

The US Open skies policy is designed to increase jobs and encourage vibrant competition for consumers. I would say at $315m a piece before discount - it has worked.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-777-successor-specs-before-making-order.html

fv

Will EK likely get a big Exim-Bank discount for each 777-X?

 

[8sugarsugar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-MhvDptSkw

 

[sniper]

Classy...

fv

Thanks, however don't tell your boss if you agree with me because remember freedom of speech does not exist in the desert

 

[fareview]

Nor in China Sherlock...want US citizens/compnaies/DAL to stop doing business with the Chinese.?

Speaking of business NY Times reporting a massive arms deal signed with UAE - initial details saying 26 New Gen F16s with lots of extras.

Great for US jobs. Can't see the Chinese ordering F16s.

Got an iPad? Enjoy - shipped to US by EK from China - gonna throw it out?

Get a grip

fv

 

[Varmint]

Will EK likely get a big Exim-Bank discount for each 777-X?

That's up the the US government. If they are stupid enough to offer the discount, EK will take advantage of it.

 

[fareview]

You are right, I am from Boston and say f--- all the Gulf Airlines,
I am not discriminating anyone. Once a war breaks with Iran don't call for help m--- f---

Hey Sherlock - they're from Chechnya - what fook all the Russian & CIS airlines too?

fv

 

[sniper]

Hey Sherlock - they're from Chechnya - what fook all the Russian & CIS airlines too?

fv

Change your wardrobe now that you are a captain. You will blend perfect with them numnut

 

[sniper]

Nor in China Sherlock...want US citizens/compnaies/DAL to stop doing business with the Chinese.?

Speaking of business NY Times reporting a massive arms deal signed with UAE - initial details saying 26 New Gen F16s with lots of extras.

Great for US jobs. Can't see the Chinese ordering F16s.

Got an iPad? Enjoy - shipped to US by EK from China - gonna throw it out?

Get a grip

fv

Our Economy and Boeing as a company does not depend on the dessert.
Your orders are a drop in the bucket.

By the way now you can fly an F16 as well with an emiratii uniform.

 

[sniper]

Hey Sherlock - they're from Chechnya - what fook all the Russian & CIS airlines too?

fv

Mother Russia and the CIS are not Muslims
They are Christian Orthodox numnut.
Muslims and terrorist groups start from the desert so enjoy your desert but don't ask for help when time comes and dont run in the Embassy.
Go put your new uniform and defend your payroll department. You are a foreign legion member now.

You are been used by them you have been warned.

 

[Freight Dog]

Sniper, you're my hero... please keep up the comedy.... LOL

 

[fareview]

EY & AC sign code share agreement.

Can't believe an ALPA carrier would do that to their own...tut tut tut.

fv

 

[General Lee]

EY & AC sign code share agreement.

Can't believe an ALPA carrier would do that to their own...tut tut tut.

fv

Yes, for connections in LHR onward to AUH. No extra flights to Canada for EY. Canada knows the dangers of allowing unrestricted access to someone who doesn't really fly O&D traffic, but rather takes away connecting passengers from their own national airline. Austria just figured that out too with a different airline.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

Yes, for connections in LHR onward to AUH. No extra flights to Canada for EY. Canada knows the dangers of allowing unrestricted access to someone who doesn't really fly O&D traffic, but rather takes away connecting passengers from their own national airline. Austria just figured that out too with a different airline.

Remember when the Big Three automakers thought protectionism would save them, too?

 

[General Lee]

Remember when the Big Three automakers thought protectionism would save them, too?

That is one reason for consolidation, get bigger to be able to compete more on the World scale. (The big 3 here will definitely get stronger due to fewer domestic players--DL/AA/UA) There are 3 big airlines in the ME too, EK, EY, and QR. All of them have HUGE orders, all hoping to make their corner if the UAE a gigantic hub. Not all if them will make it, protectionism from Europe will squash them if their own National Airlines (Lufthansa, AF, KLM, etc) start really hurting. Canada, Germany, France, and now Austria are limiting flights or the number of cities they can go to in each seperate country. Why give unrestricted access and cause your own national carrier to lay off your own citizens? Politicians often don't get re-elected for reasons like that. Gotta treat the locals right, and there isn't a problem when each airline flies one flight from each city. Can SAS fill an A340 once a day to Dubai from Copenhagen? Maybe. That flight doesn't continue onward, it goes back to CPH. But EK and other airlines poach Danes not going to Dubai, but onwards to Bangkok, and at a lower price due to Govt help or cheap Ex IM loans, and SAS can't do the same. That's not fair, and governments are becoming aware of that. Tell me, who can afford 180 A380s and 275 777s? A normal airline? Can AF afford that? Ummm nooooo.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freight Dog]

Actually General, European and US carriers are usually substantially cheaper than Emirates. For example, Delta is usually cheaper than Emirates to the tune of several hundred dollars for economy and north of 2 grand in business class...

Yet, I regularly travel with Emirates back and forth to the US... ever stop and wonder why?

 

[General Lee]

Actually General, European and US carriers are usually substantially cheaper than Emirates. For example, Delta is usually cheaper than Emirates to the tune of several hundred dollars for economy and north of 2 grand in business class...

Yet, I regularly travel with Emirates back and forth to the US... ever stop and wonder why?

I don't really care why. Those US and European carriers are probably full, but they can't afford 275 more 777s plus 180 more A380s. It's called fairness, and those Gulf airlines are stealing pax away from local carriers for connections, while they somehow can afford hundreds of new widebodies. How can any airline afford that, without a little "help?" That's what is not fair. Also, you and the rest of the "help" are the main people who actually get off in DXB, the super rich fly their own jets and then limo to Palm Island. Oh wait, you must be super rich now, you can afford several hundred dollars more to oogle at the younger FAs. Good for you and your wife! (Is she gawking at the young male FAs? Are you? There's nothing wrong with that, btw)




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fareview]

The reaction to the Gulf carriers (I would include TK)is the same shouting that happened with the other two game changers in aviation - RJs & LCCs

The major pilots pizzed & moaned about how the LCCs were stealing jobs, PFT, letting the profession down etc...and now look at the dominant position of SWA and the impact if LCCs

Then they said the same about RJs...now the RJs do over 50% of domestic US flights.

The brute force of the market can be slowed but not turned.

BA(QR), AC(EY) & QF(EK) realized it and made their move by making a deal - some more ltd than QF.EK but nonetheless important and the first step to the realignment of global aviation.

The first US carrier to do a Qantas type deal with EK will win this fight...it WILL happen and I have no doubt that in the boardrooms of the US majors (incl SWA as easyJet just signed a deal with EK) the discussions are ongoing.

India, PAK, BANGLADESH & SLanka alone is 1.8bn that will be one stop to any major city in the US to the first mover in this new world order. With 5% annual growth that market will double in 13 years...massive.

Actually DAL would be a perfect fit...don't think it's not been discussed. The spoils will go to the first mover.

If BA & QF (one world), AC (Star) can turn their back on the old alliances then get ready for more interesting moves.

fv