ALPA MEC tells Gary Kelly no thanks..again

[SWA/FO]

He claims to be a religious man

Thats the RAH dude. Gary is a business man.

 

[USMC319]

Are you 100% idiot, or just crawl out from under a rock? I have see you post, so I know you are not new to the SWA forums

Not sure what you are referring to but thanks for the childish slam. You must be a big boy.

 

[Flycatcher99]

The aai mec did not deny any request for a 6 month extension. I asked the whole mec this specific question yesterday. Swapa asked for the request and mediator Dana eischon denied their request. Swa and aai want this wrapped up. Swapa is trying to delay.

Not what our guys are saying. Alpa is the culprit here. They turned down SWA's request, and we found this out during the meeting with Bredhoff & Kaiser attorneys in DC this week.

More alpo bs.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You agreed to a process.....so let the "process" play out!

And remember, you both agreed to BINDING arbitration, so when the results come out both sides need to implement the results. Don't be pickleballers.

And whats wrong with straight date of hire? Nobody's furloughed!!! Easy!!!

Personally, DoH should be the ONLY consideration in SLIs. "Career expectations" is pure B.S.

Do you realize just how much you make all LUV guys look like 21st century sky nazis?

Agreed. The arrogance is unbelievable.

Yeah, Herb is truly a God. I bet those ATA employees that kept their jobs longer before they were sh!tcanned just worship his name every day. I know pilots that feel blessed by their preferential interview. How many were hired again?

With SWA, it is and always has been about the Swingline.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Personally, DoH should be the ONLY consideration in SLIs. "Career expectations" is pure B.S.QUOTE]

So then when Delta bought Comair and ASA, they should have given those guys DOH?

 

[Fubijaakr]

So then when Delta bought Comair and ASA, they should have given those guys DOH?

Don't be an idiot. Did they merge the seniority lists?

Sheesh...

 

[waveflyer]

Leadership and respect starts from the top.

True. And GK is as stand up a CEO as you'll find in any corporation.
AGAIN- him not caving to what YOU think is fair does not mean his character is flawed. In fact, I believe it's just the opposite. He's very rational, and knows how well your life will be in his company.

Your responsibility is to take this opportunity, be humble, get on the list and start working for SWA instead of working the process for a possible half inch more of seniority. Seniority that you demand bc of short term bidding issues that will come at the expense of long term bidding issues of Swapa pilots.

Every Swapa pilot has sacrificed FOR swa, to be at swa- if you get better- which will be a first in swa history- what will AT pilots have sacrificed? What skin will you have in our airline? Allowing you to come in with no real, tangible skin in the game will also be a first.

You're counting on a lot of firsts by turning this down....and putting a whole lot of faith in ALPA that they're actually looking out for you. Projecting your frustrations onto GK as a lack of leadership and respect will not win you ANY points with the people of SWA.

Try to remember, this is the man- an accountant- who did not NOT furlough, when your guy did.

 

[GoodTimes]

"both sides need to implement the results."

Um.....ok

 

[becket]

I can see a 1 month extension for negotiation but 6 is too long. It's amazing to me how shocked SWA guys are that they simply aren't getting their way without hesitation. The intent of McCaskill-Bond is pretty clear. SWA isn't above the law and the real threat to the "culture" is dragging this out into a multi-year legal fight a la US Airways. SWA cannot say with any certainty how that legal fight would play out. It's best not to even go down that road but if Airtran guys feel they're getting screwed, that's where this is going. SWA needs to go back to the table with a better SENIORITY deal. Money comes and goes, seniority doesn't.

 

[slaquer5]

. Money comes and goes, seniority doesn't.

Amen

Pan Am
Eastern
Midway
the list goes on.


Please tell me what I can do with my 1886 hire date w/ EAL ?

 

[TrumanSparks]

1886 hire date! Dang slacker, you must be the most SR pilot in the world with that DOH.

Don't you just love having fun with typos.

 

[shootr]

Don't be an idiot. WILL they merge the seniority lists?

Sheesh...

Edited to apply to the current situation.

 

[GoodTimes]

"SWA needs to go back the the table with a better seniority deal"



Um.........ok

 

[Sacha]

And my 84 seniority date with EAL?
And my 89 seniority date with USAIR? (thank god for that date. A little earlier or a little later and I might still be in that mess)

Stable,fair management and employee unions that don't give management the finger and try to burn the house down if they don't get their way has given me close to 22 years of peace and stability. That's what is worrying me and most of the other SWA employees that I have talked to in regards to this deal.

 

[mt2]

Yeah, Herb is truly a God. I bet those ATA employees that kept their jobs longer before they were sh!tcanned just worship his name every day. I know pilots that feel blessed by their preferential interview. How many were hired again?

This isn't about Herb it's about AT and the difference in how they are looking at seniority/jobs depending on whether they are the hunter or the prey.

 

[mt2]

NOT true.

After the FL offer, and before the WN offer, HP (AWA) came in with an offer. It was accepted. However, mysteriously, after all parties agreed to terms, including the financing, the financing people backed out. I can't remember, but I think it was TPG that backed out. We were told that it was because Parker didn't really want the B737-800s, but that was not confirmed. What is true is that within a couple of days Herb called George up with an offer. Rumors abounded that Herb had something to do with it. George tells the employees he was going to go back to the FL offer had the WN deal not come about. This was during our concessionary talks.

FL would have "pillaged" ATA.

WN actually did.

Nothing personal. It's just the airline business.

Only partially true, partially conjecture. The AWA deal was scuttled before the AT deal. It was deal that never made it beyond the preliminary stage. Eventually AWA backed out because Boeing wouldn't redo the 757-300 and newer -200ER lease deals and AWA said they were a necessary part of the package. What I said about the AT "deal" was in fact true. The AT offer was hardly a deal and showed total disregard for ATA's experienced front and back end crews. Blame SWA all you want but the codeshare allowed many to work well beyond what the AT deal would have. It gave ATA a chance to turn things around but unfortunately Subodh and his team managed what was left right into the ground. And let's not forget the brilliant buyout of World Airways/North American and it's detrimental effect on ATA's finances. Then there's FEDEX & Omni's roles. Blah, blah, blah, but blame SWA if you wish. All water under the bridge of course, and part of this business as you said.

Back to the original point. AT made no bones about not wanting ATA crews and their union purportedly supported that view -- and now that the shoe is on the other foot they want it all.

 

[redflyer65]

Back to the original point. AT made no bones about not wanting ATA crews and their union purportedly supported that view -- and now that the shoe is on the other foot they want it all.

Exactly. How quickly did the 'SW bought us' high, switch to 'why should I lose any seniority'. So where is the fair and equitable?

 

[Andy]

Personally, DoH should be the ONLY consideration in SLIs. "Career expectations" is pure B.S.QUOTE]

So then when Delta bought Comair and ASA, they should have given those guys DOH?

Don't be an idiot. Did they merge the seniority lists?

Sheesh...

So if the lists aren't merged, this whole SLI issue goes away? Hmmm. That's what I've been saying for several days.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that the lists HAVE to be merged. Plan B may be more expensive in the short term but from all external appearances, that's the direction where this ship appears to be sailing.

... I hear rumors that Delta's been Jonesing for the 717s. Maybe they'll give DOH if Southwest opts for Section 45 Fragmentation of AirTran??? LOL!
For those armchair lawyers, here's section 45: http://www.wearealpa.org/about/adminmanual/Section_045_Merger_and_Fragmentation_Policy.pdf

 

[runner46]

roughneck and cruncher,swapa asked for a 6 month extension gk said no more than 3 and at alpa said neither and the mediator agreed with at alpa Thems the facts. As in most things in life the truth was somewhere in the middle with chase spinning it to put swapa in the best light. Y'all be cool!

 

[redflyer65]

Runner,

Of course ALPA is going to deny it. They have had so much egg on their face recently, are you surprised? Big question..

Have they sent out an email, or otherwise printed the fact that it wasn't them and it was SWAPA?

We have had more than a few internal sources....that have put it in PRINT that it was ALPA turning down SW. I know who I believe.

RF