ALPA is dead!

[Redmeat]

You missed the sarcasm

I'm not sure if I should take that as an insult or a compliment. I'll opt for the latter for now.




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My comments were neither meant to be compliments nor insults.

My point was that the 50 somethings who are battling for their pensions now in the Legacy World would have been looked upon as being insane to have chosen Federal express over UAL, Delta, NW, etc. in the late 70's-early 80's. It would have been grounds for a psych eval.

Remember Pan Am was once the airline to shoot for, they had the best work rules, best pay, best routes, you name it, they had it. Does anyone remember Pan Am?

Hopefully 25 years from now you won't face the prospect of your expected 6 figure + pension being reduced to 28,000.

Good Luck.

 

[TonyC]

My comments were neither meant to be compliments nor insults.

I was referring to your comment about my youthfulness.

My point was that the 50 somethings who are battling for their pensions now in the Legacy World would have been looked upon as being insane to have chosen Federal express over UAL, Delta, NW, etc. in the late 70's-early 80's. It would have been grounds for a psych eval.

And my point is that neither of our choices of airline has any bearing on the discussion at hand. It is folly to dismiss any supporters of ALPA because they were just dumb lucky to be at a profitable carrier, and it would be folly for me to dismiss criticism of ALPA simply because it comes from someone who made a stupid choice. (I'm not saying anybody made a stupid choice - - I'm saying it would be folly if I were to make such an accusation.)




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[Redmeat]

I was referring to your comment about my youthfulness.

And my point is that neither of our choices of airline has any bearing on the discussion at hand. It is folly to dismiss any supporters of ALPA because they were just dumb lucky to be at a profitable carrier, and it would be folly for me to dismiss criticism of ALPA simply because it comes from someone who made a stupid choice. (I'm not saying anybody made a stupid choice - - I'm saying it would be folly if I were to make such an accusation.)




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Just to be perfectly clear,

I was not bashing ALPA.

My posts were directed toward your post that I (and many) interpreted to be an insinuation that somehow if some pilots would have made a better choice in airline they could have avoided their current problems.

You seem to be changing your tune a little.

If the best you guys can do is pretend that guys working for profitable carriers are only there because of dumb luck and that we need to be groveling each day to show our appreciation to the gods of chance, then we don't have much to discuss. It didn't take a 9/11 for some of us to see that express cargo provides a much more stable business than passengers. Rather than credit us with a wise choice, you feel better by crediting us with dumb luck. You had the chance, but you chose the early morning wake-ups and dragging your bags through terminals. We didn't. Get over it.

 

[TonyC]

My posts were directed toward your post that I (and many) interpreted to be an insinuation that somehow if some pilots would have made a better choice in airline they could have avoided their current problems.

You seem to be changing your tune a little.

My tune hasn't changed, but perhaps I failed to make my point clear initially. It was never my intention to demean anyone's opinion by virtue of their choice of employment. I only tried to say how silly it was for others to demean or dismiss my opinion because of my choice of employment. I apologize if I offended anyone by failing to make that clear.

I do not rejoice in the troubles of others. I am deeply troubled by the forces astir in our industry today. I am concerned not only about the future of my children's, but about that of other extended family members whose future will be affected by, for example, the failure or success of Delta. But I do not think the solution to the problems in Atlanta is to throw out ALPA and start over. ALPA did not manage Delta to where it is now, and it will not manage Delta to where it will be next year or the year after. ALPA will continue to advocate for the pilots, and for that I am grateful. I can't think of a better way to do it, but I'm always open to suggestions.

So, if there's any way that this thread can be turned into a constructive discussion where Real Men of Genius share ideas that will profit the profession and the industry, I'm all for that! Let's leave our company IDs in our pockets and try to offer something intelligent, shall we?





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