ALPA is dead!

tailhookah

Just be the ball, Danny..
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Yes, you heard it here first. I think that the effectiveness of ALPA is done. All the hard work, sacrifices and DUES have all been flushed down the toilet. The whole idea behind a large nationwide union representing a large portion of airline pilots was nothing other than the ability to organize a solidarity movement to effectively combat against inept and broken management. I'm sorry to report that this has not happend, or will happen. If ALPA was such a solvent organization then all of the alpa mec's would've backed each other up..... but since alpa got in too deep by representing everyone it was a situation that was inescapable. You can't represent one mec that has scope protection from another mec getting larger... it was done and now we all can see that aside from individual greivences protecting single pilots here and there the whole organization has failed all of us. When things started going sour then all of the mec's should have backed each other up and collectively statged walkouts etc. That's how organizing is supposed to work. It didn't happen and from what I can see will never happen. There's too much us vs. them mentalitly in the SAME organization. If I was a paying alpa member (and not furloughed) I would stand up and cancel my membership... what good has it done for you lately?

ps- Duane Woerth has not taken a single paycut yet.... is this the leadership you want representing you?
 
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sandman2122

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"IF YOU WERE A ALPA PAYING MEMBER", yeah, enough said. IF YOU WERE A MEMBER!

Why the heck do you care? It's not your fight - you don't even want to be a part of the team. Just imagine how screwed the industry would be if everyone followed your advice.

Take your military retirement and spend it at the PX ............ well, you earned it.
 
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castle bravo

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" If I was a paying alpa member (and not furloughed) I would stand up and cancel my membership... what good has it done for you lately?"


Thats the real beauty of ALPA- you can cancel your membership, but you still have to pay dues!!!!
 

FoxHunter

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sandman2122 said:
"IF YOU WERE A ALPA PAYING MEMBER", yeah, enough said. IF YOU WERE A MEMBER!

Why the heck do you care? You're not part of the team. It's not your fight so why do you care?

Take your military retirement and spend it at the PX ............

Adios

P.S. I would rather have Worth representing me then some quitter like yourself.

Settle down before you have a stroke.:) Three edits in less than a few minutes. As tony says "if the truth hurts, it should". Tailhookah said he was furloughed, so I guess that he will not get a chance to quit.
 

FoxHunter

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castle bravo said:
" If I was a paying alpa member (and not furloughed) I would stand up and cancel my membership... what good has it done for you lately?"


Thats the real beauty of ALPA- you can cancel your membership, but you still have to pay dues!!!!

Unless you work where there is no Agency Shop.
 

TWA Dude

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Quitting ALPA means giving up your voice and your vote. People who really want change are more effective from within.
 

sandman2122

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Foxhunter, are you a non-member?

Tailhook,

What does it matter? You said if you were a "paying member" you would quit......nice.



now when's that spellchecker getting added?
 
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klhoard

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sandman2122 said:
Fohunter, are you a non-member?
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Yes, he is a freeloader. . . . just put him on your "Ignore(ant)" list. . .
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TonyC

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tailhookah said:
When things started going sour then all of the mec's should have backed each other up and collectively statged walkouts etc. That's how organizing is supposed to work.
I'm sorry that you were furloughed. I'm sure that has soured your disposition considerably, but I can understand.

Perhaps you could spend your new found free time studying the Railway Labor Act. What you'll find is that the actions you've proposed are illegal. Were ALPA to undertake such an endeavor, we'd be the target of numerous lawsuits and litigation and we'd certainly fail under a mountain of debt.

But if you think of something that WOULD be legal under the RLA, please let us know. We all need to work together here.


castle bravo said:
Thats the real beauty of ALPA- you can cancel your membership, but you still have to pay dues!!!!
Perhaps that's the way your MEC operates, but that's not the case with all ALPA MECs. If you don't like it, you're free to present a resolution at your LEC meeting and send it to the MEC for a vote.



sandman2122 said:
Foxhunter, are you a non-member?
He's not just a NON-member, not just an uninformed or misinformed newbie that can be taught. He's an EX-member who didn't like the way things were going so he picked up his marbles and ran home. Now he's like a little kid yelling at people in the street from his second-story bedroom window and crying when things don't go his way.

He QUIT - - he has NO VOICE.


And that's the nice version.




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AA717driver

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Ok, can we hear how great ALPA is from someone BESIDES FedEx people?


....(crickets chirping)....


Right. That actually makes Tailhookah's point. The ONLY people left for whom ALPA has done some good is FedEx. And, it is exactly the mentality expressed by some of the above posts--"hey, if you aren't one of US, you don't have the right to criticize" that has brought ALPA to it's current, inconsequential, position.

'As long as someone else is getting hosed, it's not my problem. They should have chosen better when picking a job.'

Nothing against the FedEx guys but the union is crumbling around you and I believe it's too late to stop the slide--particularly when those sliding don't realize it.TC

P.S.--TWA Dude--right attitude, 15 years too late. :(
 

Saabslime

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Like I've said many times before. If the airlines that have agency shop were able to get rid of it, I think ALPA would be no more. I would be curious to see how many airlines have agency shop vs. those that don't.
 

CFIT

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tailhookah said:
ps- Duane Woerth has not taken a single paycut yet.... is this the leadership you want representing you?

Doesn't he make over $500,000.00 a year plus a car? He's just a pilot, you think he would make sacrifices like the people he represents.
 

tailhookah

Just be the ball, Danny..
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That's just one of my points... we complain about how inept and greedy managements at the legacies are ruining the spirit... ie. taking their bonuses and increse in wages while asking for cuts and jobs from the unions. One would think the very leadership at alpa would do the same.... not! Yes he makes well over 400K including a Lincoln which is new every two years... no pay cut yet since 9/11. I even think he's taken a raise since then. From the top down alpa has not shown me anything except stupidity, greed and mismanagement.... just like the legacy managements. If I am so wrong then please show me where I am off and I'll eat my words...

ps-except for you fedex guys...you don't count, yet. And hopefully never will....
 

semperfido

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it does seem that they have done a very poor job of increasing solidarity over the years. grade of F. their strong point is usually representing the more senior people. :)
 

B6Driver

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I just hope they last long enough to pay out for all the law suits against them. Mine first that is. What a crooked operation these thief's are running.
 

islandhopper

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AA717driver said:
Ok, can we hear how great ALPA is from someone BESIDES FedEx people?


....(crickets chirping)....

ALPA is working over here. ALPA is what your local membership makes of it. Hearing our attorneys argue in front of a BK judge in Honolulu made me think every cent of union dues I ever paid ALPA were well worth it. The AFA has a kick ass attorney too. More airlines need to stand up to these corporate raiders and call their bluffs. Our 1113c should get thrown out tomorrow morning.
 

TonyC

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tailhookah said:
That's just one of my points... we complain about how inept and greedy managements at the legacies are ruining the spirit... ie. taking their bonuses and increse in wages while asking for cuts and jobs from the unions. One would think the very leadership at alpa would do the same.... not! Yes he makes well over 400K including a Lincoln which is new every two years... no pay cut yet since 9/11. I even think he's taken a raise since then. From the top down alpa has not shown me anything except stupidity, greed and mismanagement.... just like the legacy managements. If I am so wrong then please show me where I am off and I'll eat my words...

ps-except for you fedex guys...you don't count, yet. And hopefully never will....
Well, you still don't seem to "get it." Your attitude is just like the other children who pick up their lousy marbles and cry all the way home. "If I was a member, I'd quit," you say. Why not, "If I was a member, I'd use my vote to change the President's compensation"? ANY member can propose a resolution at an LEC meeting, and that resolution can go all the way to change Capt. Woerth's compensation. IF everyone is so upset about it, why has nobody tried to change it?

Because spineless morons like Foxhunter prefer to throw stones from the outside rather than participate in changes from the inside. Again, that's the nice version.

Does ALPA have its warts? Its faults? Its shortcomings? You betcha. As long as it's being run by human beings, there will continue to be mistakes. But for all its warts, for all its blemishes, for all the mistakes that have been made in the past, there is not another organization that better equips pilots to work together to ensure a safe, secure future in professional aviation. If you know of a better way to skin the cat, I'm all ears.




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Special Ed

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I can't speak for all the other airlines, only the 2 ALPA carriers I flew for,(WestAir, and Coex) but without exception, my days off, pay, and QOL all went down when ALPA came in. Why anyone would want them at all is a mystery to me.
 

Jim

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AA717driver said:
OK, can we hear how great ALPA is from someone BESIDES FedEx people?


....(crickets chirping)....


Right. That actually makes Tailhookah's point. The ONLY people left for whom ALPA has done some good is FedEx. .....:(
Actually, I think ALPA did a great job for the Hawaiian pilots during our recent bankruptcy. ALPA National provided resources, manpower, financial assistance and advice throughout the entire process. Further, when HAL ALPA disagreed with the advice, ALPA National said "OK, we'll do it your way" and provided additional resources, manpower and financial assistance. The HAL pilots stood their ground and National supported them. From what I've heard, the Aloha ALPA is standing strong too and receiving great support from ALPA National.

The problem is not ALPA National. The problem is weak MECs and membership at the various airlines. FedEx has a strong MEC with strong membership support.

And yes, I'm furloughed and HAL ALPA's strong stance probably slowed down my recall. But their strong stance ensured that I will have a good salary, good work rules and good retirement to come back to when I am recalled.

That being said, I do think it is time for a new leader at ALPA National. We need a stronger leader than Duane Worth.
 
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