Alpa Endorses Kerry?

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

OK. I would like to see how many ALPA members on this board agree. If you belong to ALPA, please reply "KERRY" or "BUSH" to show who you would prefer ALPA endorse.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Bush........

 

[BigShow]

Bush !!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[snine3departure]

Bush..........

 

[MJG]

Kerry

The man wouldn't be my first choice but given the alternative.......

I am utterly perplexed as to how any member of any organized labor group in this country could support a president and his administration who are so obviously anti-labor. Why don't you just run around with scissors or go swimming after a big steak dinner while you're at it.

 

[flap operator]

Bush... because I'm a moderate conservative and not a bleeding heart liberal. ALPA seems to forget sometimes that our world includes more than my airline pilot flying job and that my vote for president isn't solely based on my career. I'm not going to vote for anyone who doesn't meet my moral, political and personal beliefs. And I'm certainly not going to vote for someone just because ALPA says I ought to. ALPA is only supporting Kerry by default, because he's liberal. He's the democrat who is going to take the nomination and it most likely has nothing to do with his qualifications or stands on things. Just like they're not supporting Bush because he's a republican and a supposid "labor hater." Whatever.

They ought to change their slogan "Airline Pilots support Kerry" to "Some, but not all airline pilots support Kerry" or "ALPA supports Kerry"




FO

 

[saabingitagain]

Kerry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Bush... because I'm a moderate conservative and not a bleeding heart liberal. ALPA seems to forget sometimes that our world includes more than my airline pilot flying job and that my vote for president isn't solely based on my career. I'm not going to vote for anyone who doesn't meet my moral, political and personal beliefs. And I'm certainly not going to vote for someone just because ALPA says I ought to. ALPA is only supporting Kerry by default, because he's liberal. He's the democrat who is going to take the nomination and it most likely has nothing to do with his qualifications or stands on things. Just like they're not supporting Bush because he's a republican and a supposid "labor hater." Whatever.

They ought to change their slogan "Airline Pilots support Kerry" to "Some, but not all airline pilots support Kerry" or "ALPA supports Kerry" FO

This thinking is the major flaw in politics and politicians love it. As individuals we have got to get off political branding and black and white allegiences. It is not about falling off of snowboards and Segways! It is always about the ISSUE!

Sooner or later a politician, who you don't support, is going to support an issue that is important to you. Here it comes fellas...

Support the politician that supports your issues!!

Your loyalties lie with yourself not a politician. That means, as you go thru life, you switch politicians as you support YOUR issues! Most of america is moderate...in the middle. Don't get sucked into the left or right.

Many times when an up and coming politician enters the system, they debate which party to align themselves. While a polician may grow up republican, he may join the Dems to be more effective in his neck of the woods!!

If ALPA didn't support Kerry then whom? and Why? (BTW Kerry is a pilot, Comm SEL, SES and glider)Kerry's ratings

Some say "We'll I don't want my taxes to go up....why should I vote for Kerry?
Well do you think The Bush Admin is going to support your negotiating committee and ultimately your right to strike? Meaning (read in Soup Nazi voice) no pay raise for you! (my opinion which is debatable)

Some say, National Security is too important.
The war on terrorism is global and can't be ignored. With the Republicans now controlling the White House, Senate and House, a little balance will do exactly that...balance. (my opinion which is debatable)

Finally, airline pilots are hourly workers and we pay our house note through the labor system. The Bush admin is politically aligned with and gets its money from corporate america. With all due respect to aircraft cleaners, the Bush Admin will be happy to ratchet down the piloting profession to be grouped in with cleaners. They (Corp America) want you to work as a pilot for five years then quit so they can bring in new hires at first year pay. Keep labor cost down. ALPA endorsing Bush is like Corporate America supporting Kerry.

Therefore, if you are not for championing the pilot profession, making it better, gettting the respect, pride, work rules and pay up were it belongs, then you are against it. The only thing more important than your ability to provide for your family and be fairly compensated maybe national security. If you think voting in Kerry will compromise National Security, then please expalin why in intelligent detail and not generalized comments. (lets discuss it)

Everything about the pilot profession is done through politics. FFDO, work rules, wages, off line jumpseat, security, duty times, it is all done on Cap Hill. If you are an airline pilot and you don't know about airline issues in WashDC and making choices then you aren't doing your part.

Bottom line is this... Politics, like life, is so very grey. It is not black and white. When guys jump up and down like monkeys in a cage just before feeding time, because ALPA endorsed Kerry, it makes one wonder how many are just sheep in thier own flock. I'm not saying that you should personally accept ALPAs endorsement, but as logical professionals you should at least understand why. (and do your blood pressure a favor) ALPA is only concerned about the ISSUE of promoting the airline profession! ALPA doesn't care about welfare reform, gay marriage or anything else! ALPA only cares about its issue!

Finally, if you are an ALPA pilot, go to the website and educate yourself as to why APLA endorsed Kerry. If you are an airline pilot and have made an objective analysis of this grey matter and still can't bring yourself to vote for Kerry (at the least you should understand why you should.....but this doesn't mean you should) then you should find other ways to promote our profession.

It's all about education. Don't rely on message board, crewroom and cockpit banter. Vote your conscience because you're the only one you have to answer too...

 

[Mungusaurus]

Bush

Im sorry but anyone who gets a botox injection to stop him from frowning, throws his/someone elses medals away, votes for the troops then votes against them and all in all comes across as a complete a$$ does not deserve to be president. On the flip side Bush is not the sharpest razor in the packet but he sticks to his guns, kicks a little a$$ when its needed and was a way better person to have in the White House during this troubled time than Al "like my beard"? Gore.
Hey, I dont get to vote yet but its just my nickel!
Mung.

 

[enigma]

Between the two choices you give, Bush. I disagree with numerous Bush policies, but
still find more agreement than I find with Kerry. With that said, vote Libertarian.

enigma

 

[Noam]

Nader, or some third party libertarian candidate.

I wouldn't be caught dead voting for the two main parties, who I find
are a bunch of corrupt jokers who are only interested in helping
a select group of already overprivlaged Americans.

Noam

 

[flap operator]

Hey Rez o lushun - I am not jumping up and down regarding ALPA supporting Kerry. That's fine, it's their opinion. I just don't apprecitate being lumped into the blanket statement that "Airline Pilots support Kerry." I agree with most everything you say... and that's why I swing towards conservatism. The problem with your logic is that one cannot vote for every issue. We as Americans have to vote for the best candidate that meets our personal needs as an American. I don't agree with everything Bush has done or not done... but I know that he is the better candidate for me, given the choices. I cannot vote soley for the fact that I am an airline pilot and that there is this generalization between the Republicans and Democrats being either pro or anti labor. If Gore, or any other Democrat were in office, I'd like to know how my life as a "regional" airline pilot would be better? I cannot believe that having Kerry in office will some how make my life as an airline pilot better. I guess I'm caught with some weird limbo feelings... I mosty support my union (a very changed view and opinion post Mesaba contract debacle) but my union does not control my life and my union doesn't have the power over me to make big picture and life like decisions.

Have a good day,

FO

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Here is most of my reply to this same issue in the "Majors" section:

Hi!


VOTING:
“When they finally tallied ALL the votes available BUSH WON”

Well, actually when they tallied ALL the votes, nationwide, Gore had more than Bush. When they tallied the votes in FL that they decided to count, before the Supreme Court ruled in Bush’s favor, Bush was ahead. If the Supreme Court had stayed out of it, after they had counted all of the votes that would have been acceptable, I believe that Gore would’ve won in Florida, too.

If any reader doesn’t understand why Gore could have more votes than Bush, nationwide, and lose, it is because we use an Electoral College system. When you or I vote, it doesn’t count. Our votes are used as a guide for the Electoral voters.

If the most votes in a specific state favored Bush, then the Electoral voters in that state are all supposed to also vote for Bush. However, they are not, in many states, required to vote for the same candidate that we, the people, voted for. Also, in virtually all states that require the Electoral voters to vote the same way the people do, there are no negative consequences for those Electoral voters that do not vote the same way the public voted.

Therefore, regardless of if the public in the 50 states voted for Bush OR Gore, the Electoral College could have all voted for Nader (or Buchanen), and then they would have been the legal President of the United States right now, even though hardly anyone voted for them. This is why I want to get rid of the Electoral College, so that your vote and my vote actually count for something.

PS-I also think with the way Bush & co. have severely mishandled their duties, I think there chance of winning reelection has dropped well below 5%.


FLIP-FLOPPING:
U R right! Bush flip-flops all the time. So does Kerry, and so did Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, FDR, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln had NO plans to free the slaves when he entered office, but the situation changed and he “flip-flopped” and freed the slaves in Confederate Territory towards the end of the war.


As a politician, to survive, U have to be all things to all people, which involves “flip-flopping”. If U tried to run on your convictions, without flip-flopping, U would win very few elections.

U R also, right, that U don’t feel rich. Anyone making 6 figures, even in the US is very wealthy. However, when U look around, talk to people, and look at advertising, there are always people making a ton more, so U don’t feel rich. Last year I read an article about research on income and wealth. It found that family units in the US didn’t feel fiscally secure until they mad over $150K/year. If U think about it, there are a lot of whole families making $20K and even $10K/yr. here in the US. In relation to them, U R rich. Relative to an NFL player making $750K, $100K is not a lot.

HEALTHCARE FOR ALL:
I could easily see how the Healthcare for ALL idea could be considered Socialistic. I just read interview of William Clay Ford, Jr. (the CEO of Ford Motor Co.) where he advocated just that. He said that health care costs are out of control, and it is hurting the economy because corporations can no longer afford to provide health care for its workers. He said that our current system is holding back hiring at corporations, and he thought that some type of single-payer system would make more economic sense for our country.

Also, a recent Business Week cover article focused on the problem of full-time workers who don’t have any benefits, and are paid so little, that they can’t afford to buy health care (and some of them are working 2 and 3 jobs and still can’t afford health care). Business Week’s point was that something has to be done to help them, which included providing health care in some form.

The last I checked, neither Ford Motor Co. nor Business Week were left-wing, socialist organizations.

CALLS TO INCREASE THE TAX ON GASOLINE:
There are a TON of people now calling for an increased tax on gasoline, and most of them are either moderate or conservative.

The List that I’ve compiled in recent months:

Dick Cheney himself proposed taxing imported oil at a higher rate in the 1980s.

Gregory Mankiw, Chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors proposed a $.50/gal tax in 1999.

William Clay Ford, Jr. (CEO of Ford Motor Co.) said that Ford Motor Co, in the past, and currently, supports an additional tax of $.50/gal on gasoline.

G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. (Chairman and CEO of GM) and Robert A. Lutz (GM’s Vice Chairman) both support raising the federal tax on gasoline.

Gary Becker, a Nobel Prize winning economist at the U. of Chicago (traditionally VERY conservative)

Neoconservatives Irwin Stelzer of the Weekly Standard (he is also Director of Economic Policy Studies at the Hudson Institute) and Charles Krauthammer

Conservative Blogger Andrew Sullivan

Thomas Friedman, Paul Krugman, Denny Hakim and Gregg Easterbrook in the New York Times

David Ignatius, Washington Post

Economist Philip Verleger


ALPA/LINE PILOT VOTING DISAGREEMENT:
I think there is a major economic/class disconnect among pilots, which actually makes sense logically.

Flying an aircraft is a Service Job, the same as scrubbing out a toilet at an office. We provide a service, and hence hold a blue-collar, working class position.

However, flying a plane is arguably a “Professional” career, and the top end pay is definitely light years above what a typical service worker makes (except for top end prostitutes). Many of us have a ton of education and training beyond high school, and consider ourselves middle or upper class because of our perceived job status and/or income.

ALPA is a union, just like any other blue-collar union, and it makes sense for them to typically endorse the Democratic candidate, since they are traditionally more likely to support the working man than the Republican Party. However, since many of us pilots consider ourselves white-collar or upper class, we, as individuals often favor the Republican Party. It is an interesting dichotomy.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Tim47SIP]

Bush!!

No brainer!

 

[amaineiac]

Bush......

 

[Obi-Wan]

ALPA is a political machine. They do not need the permission of its members to endorse a particular presidential candidate. They do not take a vote from members every time they have to make a move, just like our government does. I do believe that a majority of pilots are more conservative as a result of their background and where they were born. This does not change the fact that the union has to support a more liberal candidate because of their stance on labor issues. This has paid off many times in the past, ie JFK, and Truman(?). Even the many Republican guys working at the union know this. When the time comes to take action we will not have support from a republican administration, just look at the 80's. Some of us argue that certain conservative values are more important than our jobs. I tend to disagree since I believe if you cant put food on the table and feed your family the rest is not as important.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Need you ask?

BUSH in 2004!

 

[Wanderer]

ALPA has endorsed Kerry...but the true question should be..."Has ALPA DONATED to Kerry?"

Anyone know?

 

[greyhound]

Kerry.

I notice how most people who support Bush don't give reasons for their vote.

Blind support maybe?

At least the Kerry voters elaborate a little more as to why they are voting for him.

Could it be Kerry supporters are "INFORMED" voters?

HMMMMMM...

 

[SkylerS]

Hey Greyhound.

I notice how most people who support Bush don't give reasons for their vote.

Blind support maybe?

At least the Kerry voters elaborate a little more as to why they are voting for him.

Could it be Kerry supporters are "INFORMED" voters?

HMMMMMM...

Read what was requested in the original post.

OK. I would like to see how many ALPA members on this board agree. If you belong to ALPA, please reply "KERRY" or "BUSH" to show who you would prefer ALPA endorse.

It was a simple one-or-the-other. Perhaps Bush voters are the only ones who can read. Jackass. <G>

--Sky

 

[Black Water Dog]

Bush! Better for business, won't need to consult with France on our security.

 

[TWA Dude]

Kerry.

Lousy candidate, resembles that mask from Scary Movie, no charisma, but he doesn't scare the poop out of me like Bush.

 

[CWASaab]

Kerry

And for anyone expressing shock and dismay that ALPA would endorse Kerry, give me a break, this is was as predictable as a landing following a takeoff.

 

[Axel]

Bush. Because Kerry is a communist sheep.

 

[Singlecoil]

Kerry...........

 

[elantra2002]

Bush:


Those of us who are for Bush don't need to explain why.

The facts speak for themselves, When you choose to look at the facts and not what the biased media has put in front of everyone.

 

[letthebigdogeat]

Well, let's choose the better of the two worst. BUSH

 

[RichO]

To repeal the current tax cuts would set back the market more than Kerry's advisors think. It's like a drop in the ocean that starts out small, but becomes very big......but unfortunately, the current economic boom will last for a couple of years, so of course the next president is going to get credit, whether or not he was the creator of it.....and to tax the top 2% more still ends up screwing the middle class........why can't these people figure it out........and the economy is booming, manufacturing is up, employment is up, etc etc etc....why would you want to change it......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA is a political machine. This has paid off many times in the past, ie JFK, and Truman(?). Even the many Republican guys working at the union know this. Some of us argue that certain conservative values are more important than our jobs. I tend to disagree since I believe if you cant put food on the table and feed your family the rest is not as important.

ALPA was born a political machine. Politics make or break the piloting profession. JFK and Truman...yeah sure but lets go further back into history. Behncke (ALPA's founder) played politics with FDR and F. LaGuardia, Congressman & later mayor of NYC, (yes that's who the airport is named after...) and it payed off handsomely. ALPA backed FDR and benefited with air mail contracts and LaGuardia helped out with the Century Strike and the pilot image/reputation.... Also, the Air Tansport Association [ATA] (managements political voice in DC) was formed in part to combat ALPA's political effectiveness in WashDC.

Agreed on your last sentence. Who cares about abortion if you can't feed your family. Not only do we want to feed our families and pay our mortgage, we want to prosper. Support the politician who supports your very livelihood. My cause, my issue? The pilot profession! which feeds, shelters and clothes my family. What is really more important??

For example, say I couldn't bring myself to vote for Kerry because of abortion, but my families welfare really matters too. What do I do? I could vote for Kerry and when he tries to jam a Pro Choice bill into congress, then I'll contact my elected officials and tell them how to vote. Or send money to Pro-Life PACs and other organizations that support my issue. I'm playing an active roll in shaping the country's policy. I know, I know, I am actually advocating activism, but isn't it better than watching that mindless funk on VH1 (the 100 Hottest Hotties for example) while eating Doritos out of a cool container?

 

[belchfire]

Why is it that liberals, preaching all their tolerance are
tolerant of everything except someone with backbone
enough to do the right thing. PETA, NOW, ACLU...they
are even more intolerant of conservatives than they
accuse the political right of being toward them.

The same group of people that coined the phrase "Military
Intelegence is an oxymoron." are the ones insisting on
"Politically Correct". Talk about a frigging oxymoron!

I'm not a ALPA person, but I read the instructions and didn't
post a preferance...