ALPA Endorses Kerry

[1-tacan-rule]

random thoughts, by 1-t-r

a) when push comes to shove, most of the pro-boosh responders have something (i think) in common: we realize that at the end of the day, the most important thing is safety/security. we want a president who is not afraid to (in words of d.miller) kick a$$ and take hyphenated names. i say: "'f' good will". muslim extemists will hate us no matter what we do. they hated us so much before 9-11 that they turned the world upside down that day all in the name of Allah. my wife is lebanese...i've been to lebanon...i have many muslim friends...ALL are normal, nice, sane people who have no intention of showing everyone within a square block what the insides of their guts look like with the help of a bomb belt. however, there are nuts who relish the chance. make no mistake: there is no 'war on terror.' the war is with radical islam. as an editorial in wsj said, that would be like FDR saying that we were at war with kamikazees or blitzkriegs. those things (like terror) are tools of the enemy, not the enemy. if islamic extremists are going to slaughter us because of who we are and what we stand for, we should reciprocate. jorge buch does have the balls to use military force....JFK does not.

b) open your mind for a moment on this one: if a country controlled breathable air and would not allow the US to purchase it at fair market price, should we compel them to do so with military force? i'm talking about breathable AIR. how about water? most would say 'yes.' now make the jump to oil. if the entire middle east said: "no more oil for you, America." do you REALLY think we should stand by and watch US companies fall, jobs be lost, crime increase, the economy go to shambles? f*&% no! so please stop with the 'oil is not a reason to go to war.' don't miss my (long-winded) point. i'm not saying we went to war for oil. most level headed people would agree that we went to war to take out a nut who thumbed his nose at u.n. resolutions and generally didn't want to play nice in the sandbox ...and who, by the way, had wmd's according to solid intel reports. but i wish people would stop whining about going to war for oil as if oil is not a dang good reason to go to war.

c) that is all....for now.

 

[radiofly er]

Turn off the FOX channel for a min. Reality check, this is an OIL DRIVEN family. Rich, glamourous and now more lethan than ever wasting lives and your tax dollars, for WHAT democracy to IRAQ? How nice, then lets go democracise about 10 more countries that have no means of showing or having resistance. Proud? Proud of what? Going into a country with military force and encountering almost to none resistance...........EVEN HONDURAS MILITARY COULD HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SUCH AN UNEQUAL BATTLE. POINT: ANYBODY COULD HAVE REMOVED HUSSAIN, JUST THAT NOBODY HAD A BIGGER BONE TO PICK WITH HIM OTHER THAN DADDY'S BOY BUSH Jr.
Courage? It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?. HEY this is not a game!!! But somebody is making money and it's not our little employee behind.
Not able to make reasonable responsilble decisions is typical of a recovering alcoholic.

 

[LEROY]

JEEZ, this frustrates me! Some people feel it's ok to ridicule the political orientation of others, while at the same time displaying a flagrant lack of basic grammar and spelling. This has been addressed on other threads - how credible do you expect to be if we can't read your sh!t! Hey Radio Fly er, what does "lethan" mean, or how about "democracise" or what about "almost to none?" BTW the ousted brutal dictator's name was "Hussein" vice what you submitted.
I'm the first one to admit everyone has an opinion, but if you are going to voice it on this board to many intelligent people, try not to step on your cr@nk. Use the spell-checker, get a translation book, or have somebody type for you. Otherwise don't waist the time submitting your useless diatribes.
BTW, back to the original post, I'm an ALPA member, and whomever my union endorses, rest assured I'll vote by myself, for myself. Union association doesn't take away basic civil rights.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Witness RJDC and the current resentment between mainline and regional pilots to the divide Duane and the other leaders have ignored for far too long. It might be the beginning of the end for ALPA's power...

You need to read some more. The RJDC are few and so are the crowd that have a resentement towards ALPA. You should also read flying the line I, you will realize that all this BS you read on this site is the same as it was 50 years ago. The guys at ALPA have learned much from the past, but they cant always predict the future. ALPA is a political organization and they make mistaked sometimes just like the administration running the country does. As far as Bush goes its a simple thing, the guy is anti labor.

 

[Tim47SIP]

The presidents record with regard to unions is abismal. Does anyone remember a time before 9/11. You guys remember his liberal usage of the PEB. He screwed those guys at comair. An ALPA carrier (unlike those @ oh say Airtran). With that kind of history why would ALPA endorse this man. As a matter of fact why would any ALPA member?

OK, explain how he screwed those guys at Comair. Also explain what he did to unions that Clinton did not and what Skarry will do to save the profession. No president will EVER allow any major carrier to strike. It will be to disruptive to the traveling public. Clinton is responsible for many many more PEB's (railroad and airlines) than Bush.

Radio;
It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?

You are obviously not military and have no clue. Contrary to CNN and MSNBC, the military was not offended. They were proud and excited that this President took the time to to meet them. I have freinds that were on that ship and they thought is was awsome that the President did what he did. This President has more backing from our military than any President after Reagan. If you think the military liked Clinton at all, then you are very mistaken. He was dispised.

 

[UAL'01]

JEEZ, this frustrates me! Some people feel it's ok to ridicule the political orientation of others, while at the same time displaying a flagrant lack of basic grammar and spelling. This has been addressed on other threads - how credible do you expect to be if we can't read your sh!t! Hey Radio Fly er, what does "lethan" mean, or how about "democracise" or what about "almost to none?" BTW the ousted brutal dictator's name was "Hussein" vice what you submitted.
I'm the first one to admit everyone has an opinion, but if you are going to voice it on this board to many intelligent people, try not to step on your cr@nk. Use the spell-checker, get a translation book, or have somebody type for you. Otherwise don't waist the time submitting your useless diatribes.
BTW, back to the original post, I'm an ALPA member, and whomever my union endorses, rest assured I'll vote by myself, for myself. Union association doesn't take away basic civil rights.

Hey Leroy,
for somebody who rambles on about spelling, you ought to at least know the meaning of the words you use. I have no idea what someone's waist, hips, legs or any other anatomical feature have to do with your post. You may want to check the meaning of waste, though. Shows you, that a spell checker only gets you so far without your education. But I am glad that you can vote by yourself. Talk about waste...

 

[USNFDX]

zinggggggggggggggggggggggg..................................................

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

I don't know why you all make this out to be so complicated. ALPA is there to do what is in the best interests of the airline pilot career. When you put issues that directly affect this employment there is without a doubt which of these two puppets are better for the profession. ALPA does not look at who has the same opinion on abortion, gay rights, defense, etc. They are suppose to look within a vacuum of what directly affects airline pilots. When given a decision that affects airline pilots, Bush has at every instance took an opposition opinion that hinders the profession. So who do you think ALPA is going to choose? Kerry has at least the same opinion on many issues with ALPA.


I get a kick out of all you who label yourselves democrat or republican. Usually this means that you've given up on independent thought. Both of these parties are a disgrace to upright humans. To be overly stereotypical, democrats tend to be short sighted whereas republicans tend meander in blockheadiness to the point of always having to be rescued from the flood from their rooftop with a helicopter.

This election reminds me of the episode of the Simpson where the two aliens are running against each other for office. It gets to the point where Homer says he doesn't want to vote for either of them. Well the aliens go into a discusion on they are the only two choices and Homer can't throw his vote away.

I'd rather vote for one of the aliens than these two Neanderthals.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

JJetPilot:

“When they finally tallied ALL the votes available BUSH WON”

Well, actually when they tallied ALL the votes, nationwide, Gore had more than Bush. When they tallied the votes in FL that they decided to count, before the Supreme Court ruled in Bush’s favor, Bush was ahead. If the Supreme Court had stayed out of it, after they had counted all of the votes that would have been acceptable, I believe that Gore would’ve won in Florida, too.

If any reader doesn’t understand why Gore could have more votes than Bush, nationwide, and lose, it is because we use an Electoral College system. When you or I vote, it doesn’t count. Our votes are used as a guide for the Electoral voters.

If the most votes in a specific state favored Bush, then the Electoral voters in that state are all supposed to also vote for Bush. However, they are not, in many states, required to vote for the same candidate that we, the people, voted for. Also, in virtually all states that require the Electoral voters to vote the same way the people do, there are no negative consequences for those Electoral voters that do not vote the same way the public voted.

Therefore, regardless of if the public in the 50 states voted for Bush OR Gore, the Electoral College could have all voted for Nader (or Buchanen), and then they would have been the legal President of the United States right now, even though hardly anyone voted for them. This is why I want to get rid of the Electoral College, so that your vote and my vote actually count for something.

PS-I also think with the way Bush & co. have severely mishandled their duties, I think there chance of winning reelection has dropped well below 5%.

Falcon Jet 1:

If U make $45K/year, in the US you are middle class. However, in the eyes of the world U are filthy rich. There are millions and millions of families worldwide that will NEVER, EVER make anything even close to $45K, and not in a year, but in the lifetimes of ALL of the family members combined. These people will never be able to afford even one internal-combustion engine in any type of equipment or vehicle, and will never have the wealth to EVER fly in an aircraft.

FLB717:

U R right! Bush flip-flops all the time. So does Kerry, and so did Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, FDR, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln had NO plans to free the slaves when he entered office, but the situation changed and he “flip-flopped” and freed the slaves in Confederate Territory towards the end of the war.

As a politician, to survive, U have to be all things to all people, which involves “flip-flopping”. If U tried to run on your convictions, without flip-flopping, U would win very few elections.

U R also, right, that U don’t feel rich. Anyone making 6 figures, even in the US is very wealthy. However, when U look around, talk to people, and look at advertising, there are always people making a ton more, so U don’t feel rich. Last year I read an article about research on income and wealth. It found that family units in the US didn’t feel fiscally secure until they mad over $150K/year. If U think about it, there are a lot of whole families making $20K and even $10K/yr. here in the US. In relation to them, U R rich. Relative to an NFL player making $750K, $100K is not a lot.

SWA Guy:

I could easily see how the Healthcare for ALL idea could be considered Socialistic. I just read interview of William Clay Ford, Jr. (the CEO of Ford Motor Co.) where he advocated just that. He said that health care costs are out of control, and it is hurting the economy because corporations can no longer afford to provide health care for its workers. He said that our current system is holding back hiring at corporations, and he thought that some type of single-payer system would make more economic sense for our country.

Also, a recent Business Week cover article focused on the problem of full-time workers who don’t have any benefits, and are paid so little, that they can’t afford to buy health care (and some of them are working 2 and 3 jobs and still can’t afford health care). Business Week’s point was that something has to be done to help them, which included providing health care in some form.

The last I checked, neither Ford Motor Co. nor Business Week were left-wing, socialist organizations.

USNFDX:

There are a TON of people now calling for an increased tax on gasoline, and most of them are either moderate or conservative.

The List that I’ve compiled in recent months:

Dick Cheney himself proposed taxing imported oil at a higher rate in the 1980s.

Gregory Mankiw, Chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors proposed a $.50/gal tax in 1999.

William Clay Ford, Jr. (CEO of Ford Motor Co.) said that Ford Motor Co, in the past, and currently, supports an additional tax of $.50/gal on gasoline.

G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. (Chairman and CEO of GM) and Robert A. Lutz (GM’s Vice Chairman) both support raising the federal tax on gasoline.

Gary Becker, a Nobel Prize winning economist at the U. of Chicago (traditionally VERY conservative)

Neoconservatives Irwin Stelzer of the Weekly Standard (he is also Director of Economic Policy Studies at the Hudson Institute) and Charles Krauthammer

Conservative Blogger Andrew Sullivan

Thomas Friedman, Paul Krugman, Denny Hakim and Gregg Easterbrook in the New York Times

David Ignatius, Washington Post

Economist Philip Verleger

Everybody:

I think there is a major economic/class disconnect among pilots, which actually makes sense logically.

Flying an aircraft is a Service Job, the same as scrubbing out a toilet at an office. We provide a service, and hence hold a blue-collar, working class position.

However, flying a plane is arguably a “Professional” career, and the top end pay is definitely light years above what a typical service worker makes (except for top end prostitutes). Many of us have a ton of education and training beyond high school, and consider ourselves middle or upper class because of our perceived job status and/or income.

ALPA is a union, just like any other blue-collar union, and it makes sense for them to typically endorse the Democratic candidate, since they are traditionally more likely to support the working man than the Republican Party. However, since many of us pilots consider ourselves white-collar or upper class, we, as individuals often favor the Republican Party. It is an interesting dichotomy.

 

[Singlecoil]

Tim47SP,
What Bush did that was do damaging to the ability of unions to negotiate was to state DURING NEGOTIATIONS, "I will not allow a strike at a major airline." No president had done that before. That immediately places all the power in the hands of management, for they know you can't hurt them financially by striking, as the president has made clear he won't allow it. That indirectly took money out of the pockets of ALPA members, because their bargaining position was weaker.
The American pilots when on strike when Clinton was in office for about 5 minutes before he ordered them back to work. The difference is that he kept his mouth shut about his plans while negotiations were ongoing so as not to poison the process. Big difference.
Bush let the Comair pilots strike because that would have really P.O.'ed organized labor in this country. The reason that the strike was not very effective from the pilots' standpoint has more to do with Delta willing to lose a lot of money, more than the contract would have cost, just to prevail and affect future agreements at other airlines.
Why would a strike at a major be so damaging to the U.S. economy. Aren't the economists all saying there is too much capacity in the marketplace which is holding down fares? The American strike would have severely impacted South American economies as they are just about the only horse in town in many of those markets. That was a big factor in Clinton's decision in my opinion. As I recall, the pilots were able to work out a pretty good deal in spite of the order to return to work.

 

[bman]

The presidents record with regard to unions is abismal. Does anyone remember a time before 9/11. You guys remember his liberal usage of the PEB. He screwed those guys at comair. An ALPA carrier (unlike those @ oh say Airtran). With that kind of history why would ALPA endorse this man. As a matter of fact why would any ALPA member?

OK, explain how he screwed those guys at Comair. Also explain what he did to unions that Clinton did not and what Skarry will do to save the profession. No president will EVER allow any major carrier to strike. It will be to disruptive to the traveling public. Clinton is responsible for many many more PEB's (railroad and airlines) than Bush.

Radio;
It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?

You are obviously not military and have no clue. Contrary to CNN and MSNBC, the military was not offended. They were proud and excited that this President took the time to to meet them. I have freinds that were on that ship and they thought is was awsome that the President did what he did. This President has more backing from our military than any President after Reagan. If you think the military liked Clinton at all, then you are very mistaken. He was dispised.

Tim

You are wrong. Clinton did not envoke a PEB during any airline labor disputes. Bush did during the AA labor nego. Sorry Meant to say that my mistake. and as to no president will ever allow a major airline to strike your president's daddy did. The point still stands. Your president is anti labor and that is a fact. So why would ALPA endorse him. IF you can't understand why ALPA endorsed Kerry, then the "Trust us Bush" media machine has claimed another sheeple for its flock.

You Bushiphiles are so blind, deaf, and dumb. Terrorist aren't born, they are created. Tax cuts aren't free. God didn't annoint George W Bush.

I did not vote for Bush before and I will definately not be voting for him in november. I am not a socialist or a communist. I believe in regulated capitalism, but somethings shouldn't be about competition. People might be willing to take less service on an airline, but I challenge anyone to find someone who is gonna bargin shop for a neurosurgeon Let the chips fall where they may. This doesn't make me a socialist. It makes me a pragmatist. I am a liberal, becuase I don't give a $hit if two chicks wanna marry each other. If someone wants to have an abortion that is between the parents and GOD, not the government. If someone wants to use Narcotics, like say alcohol, in the privacy of their own home, that's fine by me as long as they don't go out and drive a car. I own a gun,but I don't think it is nessicary to own an assault rifle for home defense. This is america one man one vote! You don't like my views that's fine, but I will defend them like anyone else will defend theirs!!!

 

[hoya saxa]

Tim47SP,
As I recall, the pilots were able to work out a pretty good deal in spite of the order to return to work.

As were the DAL pilots who Bush said he wouldn't allow to strike, no?

 

[J3CubCapt]

Another reason, among many, why I will not renew my ALPA membership.


J3

 

[radiofly er]

JEEZ, this frustrates me! Some people feel it's ok to ridicule the political orientation of others, while at the same time displaying a flagrant lack of basic grammar and spelling. This has been addressed on other threads - how credible do you expect to be if we can't read your sh!t! Hey Radio Fly er, what does "lethan" mean, or how about "democracise" or what about "almost to none?" BTW the ousted brutal dictator's name was "Hussein" vice what you submitted.
I'm the first one to admit everyone has an opinion, but if you are going to voice it on this board to many intelligent people, try not to step on your cr@nk. Use the spell-checker, get a translation book, or have somebody type for you. Otherwise don't waist the time submitting your useless diatribes.
BTW, back to the original post, I'm an ALPA member, and whomever my union endorses, rest assured I'll vote by myself, for myself. Union association doesn't take away basic civil rights.

OK, maybe emotions and speaking your mind out make you want to send the thread as fast as possible and forget the spell check you're right! That and that my computer is going slow on me and makes me write over and over makes me a little unpatient, so bare with me a little. Anyway, this is a very serious issue, and it is no game. As far as the endoresment it's all political don't loose sleep over it, let's just get those troops back!!

 

[SWA GUY]

For all the boneheads out there that don't understand what "Mission Accomplished" was all about:

The carrier was on an extended deployment, they had an assignment, they completed the assignment, "Mission Accomplished".

You can twist, spin or taint it any way you want, but that's what the sign was for.

Thanks for supporting your military.

 

[radiofly er]

Hey Leroy,
for somebody who rambles on about spelling, you ought to at least know the meaning of the words you use. I have no idea what someone's waist, hips, legs or any other anatomical feature have to do with your post. You may want to check the meaning of waste, though. Shows you, that a spell checker only gets you so far without your education. But I am glad that you can vote by yourself. Talk about waste...

Yeah, Leroy don't waste my time, in all seriousness buddy this guy is a THREAT and it worries the heck out of me and millions of us that aren't military. His beliefs, history, childhood, fundamentalist thoughts etc.... freighten alot of people. He has not proven himself in domestic issues for example health care, social security or reforms clear enough to balance the budget. This world is less safer, there are 18,000 Alqaeda operatives around the world, they have multiplied like gremlins. Not to mention quite a few copycat operatives also waiting and waiting for an opportunity. How are we safer? I do support the military that's why they need to be back home in time for the football season.

 

[SWA GUY]

Radio,

I guess you forgot about the recent "Medicare Reform Bill", the "Education Reform Bill" and the Economic Stimulus Plan that has taken us from a nose-diving economy to an economy that is strong and growing.

Tell me again why we are not safer with the Taliban and Saddam Hussien gone?

You really need to educate yourself, read the facts, and quit quoting the DNC's mantra.

 

[SpeedBird]

For disclosure purposes I am a political conservative (read: not a stooge Republican).

I find it very short-sighted and ignorant that so many of you who find GWB a threat to your livelihood because he has supposedly demonstrated a propensity to squash organized labor; or create an environment where the airline industry at-large is being negatively impacted on a long-term basis, are missing the forest from the trees. Since 9/11 Al-Qaeda supported terrorism has declared war on our nation. The first priority that our government has to its citizens is to protect the nation's sovereignty and borders from hostile threats; which are both "external" and "internal."

How many 9/11 scenarios do you think it would take to put the vast majority of us out of work because our airline and greater economic systems would be irrepairably damaged or lost? It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to quickly realize how futile one's argument about "unfair" labor discrimination becomes when compared to the much greater threat our livelihoods face under the former scenario(s).

While I am no great fan of GWB and many of his policies I do give him great respect and credit for his unmitigated resolve to take this war to the enemy on our terms and far enough from our geographic borders to give us a chance to reinvigorate this once-broken economy and give the majority of our citizens the opportunity to get back up on their own financial feet and be self-reliant; and not dependent on the government tit for sustenance. I don't think JFK has the resolve to keep up the fight and make the tough choices that still lie ahead for our nation. When I go to vote this will be how I measure who's best to lead our nation....everything else will just be icing on the cake.

This war is far from over and will most likely be a permanent part of our lives and the lives of our children. It requires all of us to reassess our lives financially (and in many other ways also). The hot-button issues that we are all debating on these boards about what the future of our profession holds and the "race-to-the-bottom" are not unique to airline pilots, the airline industry, or our nation as whole. The richest of the "Have's" nations around the world are facing a troublesome future as the China's, India's, and many other nations which are growing in their relative prosperity want what we've taken for granted for so long.

I don't know what all the answers are either and the next presidential election will not fix what ails us. However, the next President, and the next, and the next better not forget the first priority of government to protect its citizens. To do otherwise will be too costly and make our views represented in this thread laughable.

 

[hoya saxa]

I do support the military that's why they need to be back home in time for the football season.

Gosh, thanks for your support. Fortunately those brave souls serving overseas DO understand the importance of their mission and are not there fuming that "the Man" forced them to go. They are dedicated to the cause of eradicating terrorism and keeping future threats to our security at bay. Your attempt to sound compassionate for the troops is only a thinly-veiled attempt to undermine what they have chosen to do (oh yeah, we're all volunteers). Nobody in uniform buys your BS or cares a whit for your "support." The "I love the troops so we should bring them all home" line is nothing more than the modern day re-write of Jane Fonda laughing as she looks through the sites of an NVA AAA piece. Guess what? Most of our forces in Iraq don't bother to watch CNN/ABC/CBS etc anymore because they're sick of seeing nothing but the negatives reported. Apparently the positive work of reconstruction and stabilization that takes place everyday by 137,993 troops is not newsworthy. They're not as naive and sheep-like as you think my friend. They understand what they're doing and what they're contributing to the world and America, whether the French and Michael Moore get it or not. So you can go to sleep tonight sucking your thumb and be thankful that hundreds of thousands of good Americans are overseas keeping you safe. Their sacrifices are worthwhile and they know that. The fact that you can't comprehend that is sad, but perspective (not to mention spelling, grammar and proper syntax) doesn't seem to be among your handful of attributes.

 

[captdawg]

Here's one for you DonVerita

Subject: Democrat or Republican


Are you a Democrat, Republican or Southern Republican?

Question:
How do you tell the difference between democrats, republicans and southern republicans?

Answer:
Pose the following question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.
What do you do?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Democrat's Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away?
What does my wife think?
What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a happier, healther street that would discourage such behavior.
This is so confusing!
I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Republican's Answer:
BANG!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Southern Republican's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click....(sounds of reloading).
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click.
Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy! Were those the Winchester
Silver Tips?"

You tell me who's hands were safer in?