Bush is a moron and has totally screwed this country over. Iraq wasnt necessary and was totally about oil. He is in bed with the Saudi's as his family has been for years. He promotes fear to the american public so we will support whatever he does. He has no sense of foreign policy. Poor Powell should of resigned months ago as Bush has done nothing but embarass him. Its also pretty funny that Cheney was CEO of Haliburton and guess who got the majority of the contracts in Iraq. He still hold a lot of stock and options. Just another example of the republicans getting richer and the middle class getting poorer.
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ALPA Endorses Kerry
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Spur
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jll said:
I seriously doubt you were (or are) a military pilot. First - If you were you would know that you cannot be AWOL from inactive duty training... (UTAs). Second - How many flight physicals have you taken when you were not on flight status? Hmmm...
Nice try, now go back to playing your favorite flight sim and leave this board to the real pilots.
Back to the original thread topic:
If ALPA is so hot for Kerry why is my mailbox filling up with e-mails from ALPA explaining that the endorsement really doesn't mean much and it doesn't mean they are going to vote for Kerry, nor are they asking me to vote for Kerry?
Singlecoil
I don't reMember
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SWA GUY
BMF
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Posts
- 627
Singlecoil,
You are correct. President bush did not inherit a recession, he inherited a nose diving economy, and he's turned it around nicely. We're splittin hairs here I think.
You get credit however for your point. Got any more?
Jll,
Am I aligning myself with the current president, or am I callin em as I see em?
Please tell me the anwer so that I can be as informed as the rest of the Dumbocrats whom are told what to think by the DNC(Also known as the TLAA).
Damm...this is easy!
You are correct. President bush did not inherit a recession, he inherited a nose diving economy, and he's turned it around nicely. We're splittin hairs here I think.
You get credit however for your point. Got any more?
Jll,
Am I aligning myself with the current president, or am I callin em as I see em?
Please tell me the anwer so that I can be as informed as the rest of the Dumbocrats whom are told what to think by the DNC(Also known as the TLAA).
Damm...this is easy!
SWAguy,
I think you make it easy for me. Ref earlier post ...
You know, in a crowd, you can always tell a hard right wing republican pilot, but you can't tell him much!
You appear to align your own self with the pres cause you think alike, that is no questions asked and and no questions taken. But enough of this, I can't convert you nor do I wish to try.
Who does your union support?
I think you make it easy for me. Ref earlier post ...
You know, in a crowd, you can always tell a hard right wing republican pilot, but you can't tell him much!
You appear to align your own self with the pres cause you think alike, that is no questions asked and and no questions taken. But enough of this, I can't convert you nor do I wish to try.
Who does your union support?
I think most of you conservatives sit down with a former Eastern Pilot or a Continental pilot that flew at CAL before 1983, they''ll desribe what cr@p ALPA is for running out on them and that republicans and lorenzo are in bed together.
Some of you military guys hanging on to that save the world military spending BS should wake up. If you feel the need to stay with your military attitude, find a CAL pilot that flew in the miliary, like during Vietnam, I have friends that are of that genre and flew A-4's in Nam, what an eye opening story they have.
Anyone that sleeps with Lozenzo cannot stay in office. IMHO.
We should care what France and Germany think, all of them.
Some of you military guys hanging on to that save the world military spending BS should wake up. If you feel the need to stay with your military attitude, find a CAL pilot that flew in the miliary, like during Vietnam, I have friends that are of that genre and flew A-4's in Nam, what an eye opening story they have.
Anyone that sleeps with Lozenzo cannot stay in office. IMHO.
We should care what France and Germany think, all of them.
SDF2BUF2MCO
Bird Nerd
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Krusty said:
Krusty, you may be interested to know the deregulation was an issue that Dem Ted Kennedy decided to pimp off of. In addition, he had support from fellow Dems like Maxine Waters. To some, deregulation was the beginning of the end. If I remember correctly, Lorenzo needed Kennedy's support as well.
Both parties are anti-labor just have a different way of approaching it.
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B6Busdriver
pushbutton pusher
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jobear
Titanium Necked Bandit
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- Jan 20, 2002
- Posts
- 786
gimme a break
Kerry Said War On Terror Is “Basically A Manhunt.” “Kerry was asked about Bush’s weekend appearance on ‘Meet the Press’ when he called himself a ‘war president.’ The senator, who watched the session, remarked: ‘The war on terrorism is a very different war from the way the president is trying to sell it to us. It’s a serious challenge, and it is a war of sorts, but it is not the kind of war they’re trying to market to America.’ Kerry characterized the war on terror as predominantly an intelligence-gathering and law enforcement operation. ‘It’s basically a manhunt,’ he said. ‘You gotta know who they are, where they are, what they’re planning, and you gotta be able to go get ‘em before they get us.’” (Katherine M. Skiba, “Bush, Kerry Turn Focus To Each Other,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 2/13/04)
Two Weeks Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped, Saying War On Terror Is More Than “A Manhunt”. “This war isn’t just a manhunt – a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At University Of California At Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, 2/27/04)
Man I like dubbs web site makes arguing easier
Jobear
Kerry Said War On Terror Is “Basically A Manhunt.” “Kerry was asked about Bush’s weekend appearance on ‘Meet the Press’ when he called himself a ‘war president.’ The senator, who watched the session, remarked: ‘The war on terrorism is a very different war from the way the president is trying to sell it to us. It’s a serious challenge, and it is a war of sorts, but it is not the kind of war they’re trying to market to America.’ Kerry characterized the war on terror as predominantly an intelligence-gathering and law enforcement operation. ‘It’s basically a manhunt,’ he said. ‘You gotta know who they are, where they are, what they’re planning, and you gotta be able to go get ‘em before they get us.’” (Katherine M. Skiba, “Bush, Kerry Turn Focus To Each Other,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 2/13/04)
Two Weeks Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped, Saying War On Terror Is More Than “A Manhunt”. “This war isn’t just a manhunt – a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At University Of California At Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, 2/27/04)
Man I like dubbs web site makes arguing easier
Jobear
AA717driver
A simpler time...
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2003
- Posts
- 4,908
The economy is cyclical and is influenced by Fed policy and consumer behavior rather than the President.
The Democrats appalled by deficit spending? What about the second half of the 20th century when the Democrats controlled the purse strings and we ran consistent deficits?
Politicians are for sale. Show me a truly honest politician and I'll show you a one-termer.
Nothing is ever as it seems. If Iraq was contrived, it was probably for a reason none of us will ever know.
Why would anyone trust a politician who tells you he understands your problems when he's never been out of work--or held a real job, for that matter. Kerry was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and now lives comfortably with $500M in his wife's bank account. He took out a $6M home equity loan--on one of his 5 mansions. He rides around in a GV.
I will probably vote Libertarian this election even though I know it is a wasted vote.TC
The Democrats appalled by deficit spending? What about the second half of the 20th century when the Democrats controlled the purse strings and we ran consistent deficits?
Politicians are for sale. Show me a truly honest politician and I'll show you a one-termer.
Nothing is ever as it seems. If Iraq was contrived, it was probably for a reason none of us will ever know.
Why would anyone trust a politician who tells you he understands your problems when he's never been out of work--or held a real job, for that matter. Kerry was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and now lives comfortably with $500M in his wife's bank account. He took out a $6M home equity loan--on one of his 5 mansions. He rides around in a GV.
I will probably vote Libertarian this election even though I know it is a wasted vote.TC
BoilerUP
Citation style...
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Don't have a dog in this fight, but...
I think many people here need to read (or re-read) Flying the Line Vol. 2 and Hard Landing, and put it in a current perspective. It seems to me (young college kid) that ALPA still is a relevant organization, but the fact they are running both major and regional airlines under a 1970s mentality is destroying the one thing a union relies on most: unity. Witness RJDC and the current resentment between mainline and regional pilots to the divide Duane and the other leaders have ignored for far too long. It might be the beginning of the end for ALPA's power...
I bet many of you foaming at the mouth for Bush's defeat are the same people who were thankful that they got those tax rebates. I mean, if you were so opposed to getting money back from the government during a war you would have sent it back, right?
I think many people here need to read (or re-read) Flying the Line Vol. 2 and Hard Landing, and put it in a current perspective. It seems to me (young college kid) that ALPA still is a relevant organization, but the fact they are running both major and regional airlines under a 1970s mentality is destroying the one thing a union relies on most: unity. Witness RJDC and the current resentment between mainline and regional pilots to the divide Duane and the other leaders have ignored for far too long. It might be the beginning of the end for ALPA's power...
I bet many of you foaming at the mouth for Bush's defeat are the same people who were thankful that they got those tax rebates. I mean, if you were so opposed to getting money back from the government during a war you would have sent it back, right?
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radiofly er
Well-known member
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- May 28, 2002
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- 54
Its not that we like John Kerry its just that ANYBODY BUT BUSH. I mean who else is out there.....ANYBODY! WHO CARES IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND TIME AFTER TIME, WHO CARES IF I DONT KOW YOU...........IF YOURE RUNNING AGAINST BUSH ILL VOTE FOR YOU. Besides was'nt this war over with. Or mission acomplished, what was that all about.....talk about changing minds.I don't think this guy knows what hes doing, and people are dying because of what comes out of this religious fundamentalist's mouth. C'mon get a real president at least someone who looks intelligent, this guy is just......how should i put it......fuNNY and dumb.
The ALPA endorsement of Kerry doesn't mean squat. Everyone that I know will vote for who they want, not who their union says to vote for. I wonder if ALPA took a vote, who would the members choose to endorse? If individuals want to contribute to a candidate, fine, but don't use my dues for that purpose. I wouldn't be suprised if Duane Worth voted for Bush.
Gas prices are not related to tax cuts or rebates. Gas prices go up and down regardless.
For me the $400 that went into a Roth IRA will be worth between 13K - 26K at retirement.
Gas prices are not related to tax cuts or rebates. Gas prices go up and down regardless.
For me the $400 that went into a Roth IRA will be worth between 13K - 26K at retirement.
USNFDX
Purple Member
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- Dec 7, 2001
- Posts
- 328
Fuel Prices.
The single largest factor that affects our fuel prices right now is refining capacity.
We have not built a single new refinery in this country since the 1970s.
THIS IS LARGELY DUE TO YOUR LEFT WING ULTRA LIBERAL ENVIRONMENTAL WACKOS.
The Stronger than expected economy has resulted in unforecasted demand. Our refining capability cannot play catchup.
Besides, I thought you Liberals want gas at $3 bucks a gallon. Al gore has said it often.
You liberals can't even be honest with yourselves!
The single largest factor that affects our fuel prices right now is refining capacity.
We have not built a single new refinery in this country since the 1970s.
THIS IS LARGELY DUE TO YOUR LEFT WING ULTRA LIBERAL ENVIRONMENTAL WACKOS.
The Stronger than expected economy has resulted in unforecasted demand. Our refining capability cannot play catchup.
Besides, I thought you Liberals want gas at $3 bucks a gallon. Al gore has said it often.
You liberals can't even be honest with yourselves!
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1-tacan-rule
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Posts
- 90
random thoughts, by 1-t-r
a) when push comes to shove, most of the pro-boosh responders have something (i think) in common: we realize that at the end of the day, the most important thing is safety/security. we want a president who is not afraid to (in words of d.miller) kick a$$ and take hyphenated names. i say: "'f' good will". muslim extemists will hate us no matter what we do. they hated us so much before 9-11 that they turned the world upside down that day all in the name of Allah. my wife is lebanese...i've been to lebanon...i have many muslim friends...ALL are normal, nice, sane people who have no intention of showing everyone within a square block what the insides of their guts look like with the help of a bomb belt. however, there are nuts who relish the chance. make no mistake: there is no 'war on terror.' the war is with radical islam. as an editorial in wsj said, that would be like FDR saying that we were at war with kamikazees or blitzkriegs. those things (like terror) are tools of the enemy, not the enemy. if islamic extremists are going to slaughter us because of who we are and what we stand for, we should reciprocate. jorge buch does have the balls to use military force....JFK does not.
b) open your mind for a moment on this one: if a country controlled breathable air and would not allow the US to purchase it at fair market price, should we compel them to do so with military force? i'm talking about breathable AIR. how about water? most would say 'yes.' now make the jump to oil. if the entire middle east said: "no more oil for you, America." do you REALLY think we should stand by and watch US companies fall, jobs be lost, crime increase, the economy go to shambles? f*&% no! so please stop with the 'oil is not a reason to go to war.' don't miss my (long-winded) point. i'm not saying we went to war for oil. most level headed people would agree that we went to war to take out a nut who thumbed his nose at u.n. resolutions and generally didn't want to play nice in the sandbox ...and who, by the way, had wmd's according to solid intel reports. but i wish people would stop whining about going to war for oil as if oil is not a dang good reason to go to war.
c) that is all....for now.
a) when push comes to shove, most of the pro-boosh responders have something (i think) in common: we realize that at the end of the day, the most important thing is safety/security. we want a president who is not afraid to (in words of d.miller) kick a$$ and take hyphenated names. i say: "'f' good will". muslim extemists will hate us no matter what we do. they hated us so much before 9-11 that they turned the world upside down that day all in the name of Allah. my wife is lebanese...i've been to lebanon...i have many muslim friends...ALL are normal, nice, sane people who have no intention of showing everyone within a square block what the insides of their guts look like with the help of a bomb belt. however, there are nuts who relish the chance. make no mistake: there is no 'war on terror.' the war is with radical islam. as an editorial in wsj said, that would be like FDR saying that we were at war with kamikazees or blitzkriegs. those things (like terror) are tools of the enemy, not the enemy. if islamic extremists are going to slaughter us because of who we are and what we stand for, we should reciprocate. jorge buch does have the balls to use military force....JFK does not.
b) open your mind for a moment on this one: if a country controlled breathable air and would not allow the US to purchase it at fair market price, should we compel them to do so with military force? i'm talking about breathable AIR. how about water? most would say 'yes.' now make the jump to oil. if the entire middle east said: "no more oil for you, America." do you REALLY think we should stand by and watch US companies fall, jobs be lost, crime increase, the economy go to shambles? f*&% no! so please stop with the 'oil is not a reason to go to war.' don't miss my (long-winded) point. i'm not saying we went to war for oil. most level headed people would agree that we went to war to take out a nut who thumbed his nose at u.n. resolutions and generally didn't want to play nice in the sandbox ...and who, by the way, had wmd's according to solid intel reports. but i wish people would stop whining about going to war for oil as if oil is not a dang good reason to go to war.
c) that is all....for now.
radiofly er
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Posts
- 54
Turn off the FOX channel for a min. Reality check, this is an OIL DRIVEN family. Rich, glamourous and now more lethan than ever wasting lives and your tax dollars, for WHAT democracy to IRAQ? How nice, then lets go democracise about 10 more countries that have no means of showing or having resistance. Proud? Proud of what? Going into a country with military force and encountering almost to none resistance...........EVEN HONDURAS MILITARY COULD HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SUCH AN UNEQUAL BATTLE. POINT: ANYBODY COULD HAVE REMOVED HUSSAIN, JUST THAT NOBODY HAD A BIGGER BONE TO PICK WITH HIM OTHER THAN DADDY'S BOY BUSH Jr.
Courage? It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?. HEY this is not a game!!! But somebody is making money and it's not our little employee behind.
Not able to make reasonable responsilble decisions is typical of a recovering alcoholic.
Courage? It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?. HEY this is not a game!!! But somebody is making money and it's not our little employee behind.
Not able to make reasonable responsilble decisions is typical of a recovering alcoholic.
JEEZ, this frustrates me! Some people feel it's ok to ridicule the political orientation of others, while at the same time displaying a flagrant lack of basic grammar and spelling. This has been addressed on other threads - how credible do you expect to be if we can't read your sh!t! Hey Radio Fly er, what does "lethan" mean, or how about "democracise" or what about "almost to none?" BTW the ousted brutal dictator's name was "Hussein" vice what you submitted.
I'm the first one to admit everyone has an opinion, but if you are going to voice it on this board to many intelligent people, try not to step on your cr@nk. Use the spell-checker, get a translation book, or have somebody type for you. Otherwise don't waist the time submitting your useless diatribes.
BTW, back to the original post, I'm an ALPA member, and whomever my union endorses, rest assured I'll vote by myself, for myself. Union association doesn't take away basic civil rights.
I'm the first one to admit everyone has an opinion, but if you are going to voice it on this board to many intelligent people, try not to step on your cr@nk. Use the spell-checker, get a translation book, or have somebody type for you. Otherwise don't waist the time submitting your useless diatribes.
BTW, back to the original post, I'm an ALPA member, and whomever my union endorses, rest assured I'll vote by myself, for myself. Union association doesn't take away basic civil rights.
You need to read some more. The RJDC are few and so are the crowd that have a resentement towards ALPA. You should also read flying the line I, you will realize that all this BS you read on this site is the same as it was 50 years ago. The guys at ALPA have learned much from the past, but they cant always predict the future. ALPA is a political organization and they make mistaked sometimes just like the administration running the country does. As far as Bush goes its a simple thing, the guy is anti labor.
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
The presidents record with regard to unions is abismal. Does anyone remember a time before 9/11. You guys remember his liberal usage of the PEB. He screwed those guys at comair. An ALPA carrier (unlike those @ oh say Airtran). With that kind of history why would ALPA endorse this man. As a matter of fact why would any ALPA member?
OK, explain how he screwed those guys at Comair. Also explain what he did to unions that Clinton did not and what Skarry will do to save the profession. No president will EVER allow any major carrier to strike. It will be to disruptive to the traveling public. Clinton is responsible for many many more PEB's (railroad and airlines) than Bush.
Radio;
It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?
You are obviously not military and have no clue. Contrary to CNN and MSNBC, the military was not offended. They were proud and excited that this President took the time to to meet them. I have freinds that were on that ship and they thought is was awsome that the President did what he did. This President has more backing from our military than any President after Reagan. If you think the military liked Clinton at all, then you are very mistaken. He was dispised.
OK, explain how he screwed those guys at Comair. Also explain what he did to unions that Clinton did not and what Skarry will do to save the profession. No president will EVER allow any major carrier to strike. It will be to disruptive to the traveling public. Clinton is responsible for many many more PEB's (railroad and airlines) than Bush.
Radio;
It takes more courage to admit you made a fool and discouraged , insulted many american soldiers( that really deserve to stand there)standing in that carrier anouncing the end of the war......later to witness more American casualties and then say "we are still at war" wich is it?
You are obviously not military and have no clue. Contrary to CNN and MSNBC, the military was not offended. They were proud and excited that this President took the time to to meet them. I have freinds that were on that ship and they thought is was awsome that the President did what he did. This President has more backing from our military than any President after Reagan. If you think the military liked Clinton at all, then you are very mistaken. He was dispised.
Hey Leroy,LEROY said:
for somebody who rambles on about spelling, you ought to at least know the meaning of the words you use. I have no idea what someone's waist, hips, legs or any other anatomical feature have to do with your post. You may want to check the meaning of waste, though. Shows you, that a spell checker only gets you so far without your education. But I am glad that you can vote by yourself. Talk about waste...
Ivan Yankenoff
Large Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
- Posts
- 60
I don't know why you all make this out to be so complicated. ALPA is there to do what is in the best interests of the airline pilot career. When you put issues that directly affect this employment there is without a doubt which of these two puppets are better for the profession. ALPA does not look at who has the same opinion on abortion, gay rights, defense, etc. They are suppose to look within a vacuum of what directly affects airline pilots. When given a decision that affects airline pilots, Bush has at every instance took an opposition opinion that hinders the profession. So who do you think ALPA is going to choose? Kerry has at least the same opinion on many issues with ALPA.
I get a kick out of all you who label yourselves democrat or republican. Usually this means that you've given up on independent thought. Both of these parties are a disgrace to upright humans. To be overly stereotypical, democrats tend to be short sighted whereas republicans tend meander in blockheadiness to the point of always having to be rescued from the flood from their rooftop with a helicopter.
This election reminds me of the episode of the Simpson where the two aliens are running against each other for office. It gets to the point where Homer says he doesn't want to vote for either of them. Well the aliens go into a discusion on they are the only two choices and Homer can't throw his vote away.
I'd rather vote for one of the aliens than these two Neanderthals.
I get a kick out of all you who label yourselves democrat or republican. Usually this means that you've given up on independent thought. Both of these parties are a disgrace to upright humans. To be overly stereotypical, democrats tend to be short sighted whereas republicans tend meander in blockheadiness to the point of always having to be rescued from the flood from their rooftop with a helicopter.
This election reminds me of the episode of the Simpson where the two aliens are running against each other for office. It gets to the point where Homer says he doesn't want to vote for either of them. Well the aliens go into a discusion on they are the only two choices and Homer can't throw his vote away.
I'd rather vote for one of the aliens than these two Neanderthals.
atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
Hi!
JJetPilot:
“When they finally tallied ALL the votes available BUSH WON”
Well, actually when they tallied ALL the votes, nationwide, Gore had more than Bush. When they tallied the votes in FL that they decided to count, before the Supreme Court ruled in Bush’s favor, Bush was ahead. If the Supreme Court had stayed out of it, after they had counted all of the votes that would have been acceptable, I believe that Gore would’ve won in Florida, too.
If any reader doesn’t understand why Gore could have more votes than Bush, nationwide, and lose, it is because we use an Electoral College system. When you or I vote, it doesn’t count. Our votes are used as a guide for the Electoral voters.
If the most votes in a specific state favored Bush, then the Electoral voters in that state are all supposed to also vote for Bush. However, they are not, in many states, required to vote for the same candidate that we, the people, voted for. Also, in virtually all states that require the Electoral voters to vote the same way the people do, there are no negative consequences for those Electoral voters that do not vote the same way the public voted.
Therefore, regardless of if the public in the 50 states voted for Bush OR Gore, the Electoral College could have all voted for Nader (or Buchanen), and then they would have been the legal President of the United States right now, even though hardly anyone voted for them. This is why I want to get rid of the Electoral College, so that your vote and my vote actually count for something.
PS-I also think with the way Bush & co. have severely mishandled their duties, I think there chance of winning reelection has dropped well below 5%.
Falcon Jet 1:
If U make $45K/year, in the US you are middle class. However, in the eyes of the world U are filthy rich. There are millions and millions of families worldwide that will NEVER, EVER make anything even close to $45K, and not in a year, but in the lifetimes of ALL of the family members combined. These people will never be able to afford even one internal-combustion engine in any type of equipment or vehicle, and will never have the wealth to EVER fly in an aircraft.
FLB717:
U R right! Bush flip-flops all the time. So does Kerry, and so did Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, FDR, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln had NO plans to free the slaves when he entered office, but the situation changed and he “flip-flopped” and freed the slaves in Confederate Territory towards the end of the war.
As a politician, to survive, U have to be all things to all people, which involves “flip-flopping”. If U tried to run on your convictions, without flip-flopping, U would win very few elections.
U R also, right, that U don’t feel rich. Anyone making 6 figures, even in the US is very wealthy. However, when U look around, talk to people, and look at advertising, there are always people making a ton more, so U don’t feel rich. Last year I read an article about research on income and wealth. It found that family units in the US didn’t feel fiscally secure until they mad over $150K/year. If U think about it, there are a lot of whole families making $20K and even $10K/yr. here in the US. In relation to them, U R rich. Relative to an NFL player making $750K, $100K is not a lot.
SWA Guy:
I could easily see how the Healthcare for ALL idea could be considered Socialistic. I just read interview of William Clay Ford, Jr. (the CEO of Ford Motor Co.) where he advocated just that. He said that health care costs are out of control, and it is hurting the economy because corporations can no longer afford to provide health care for its workers. He said that our current system is holding back hiring at corporations, and he thought that some type of single-payer system would make more economic sense for our country.
Also, a recent Business Week cover article focused on the problem of full-time workers who don’t have any benefits, and are paid so little, that they can’t afford to buy health care (and some of them are working 2 and 3 jobs and still can’t afford health care). Business Week’s point was that something has to be done to help them, which included providing health care in some form.
The last I checked, neither Ford Motor Co. nor Business Week were left-wing, socialist organizations.
USNFDX:
There are a TON of people now calling for an increased tax on gasoline, and most of them are either moderate or conservative.
The List that I’ve compiled in recent months:
Dick Cheney himself proposed taxing imported oil at a higher rate in the 1980s.
Gregory Mankiw, Chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors proposed a $.50/gal tax in 1999.
William Clay Ford, Jr. (CEO of Ford Motor Co.) said that Ford Motor Co, in the past, and currently, supports an additional tax of $.50/gal on gasoline.
G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. (Chairman and CEO of GM) and Robert A. Lutz (GM’s Vice Chairman) both support raising the federal tax on gasoline.
Gary Becker, a Nobel Prize winning economist at the U. of Chicago (traditionally VERY conservative)
Neoconservatives Irwin Stelzer of the Weekly Standard (he is also Director of Economic Policy Studies at the Hudson Institute) and Charles Krauthammer
Conservative Blogger Andrew Sullivan
Thomas Friedman, Paul Krugman, Denny Hakim and Gregg Easterbrook in the New York Times
David Ignatius, Washington Post
Economist Philip Verleger
Everybody:
I think there is a major economic/class disconnect among pilots, which actually makes sense logically.
Flying an aircraft is a Service Job, the same as scrubbing out a toilet at an office. We provide a service, and hence hold a blue-collar, working class position.
However, flying a plane is arguably a “Professional” career, and the top end pay is definitely light years above what a typical service worker makes (except for top end prostitutes). Many of us have a ton of education and training beyond high school, and consider ourselves middle or upper class because of our perceived job status and/or income.
ALPA is a union, just like any other blue-collar union, and it makes sense for them to typically endorse the Democratic candidate, since they are traditionally more likely to support the working man than the Republican Party. However, since many of us pilots consider ourselves white-collar or upper class, we, as individuals often favor the Republican Party. It is an interesting dichotomy.
JJetPilot:
“When they finally tallied ALL the votes available BUSH WON”
Well, actually when they tallied ALL the votes, nationwide, Gore had more than Bush. When they tallied the votes in FL that they decided to count, before the Supreme Court ruled in Bush’s favor, Bush was ahead. If the Supreme Court had stayed out of it, after they had counted all of the votes that would have been acceptable, I believe that Gore would’ve won in Florida, too.
If any reader doesn’t understand why Gore could have more votes than Bush, nationwide, and lose, it is because we use an Electoral College system. When you or I vote, it doesn’t count. Our votes are used as a guide for the Electoral voters.
If the most votes in a specific state favored Bush, then the Electoral voters in that state are all supposed to also vote for Bush. However, they are not, in many states, required to vote for the same candidate that we, the people, voted for. Also, in virtually all states that require the Electoral voters to vote the same way the people do, there are no negative consequences for those Electoral voters that do not vote the same way the public voted.
Therefore, regardless of if the public in the 50 states voted for Bush OR Gore, the Electoral College could have all voted for Nader (or Buchanen), and then they would have been the legal President of the United States right now, even though hardly anyone voted for them. This is why I want to get rid of the Electoral College, so that your vote and my vote actually count for something.
PS-I also think with the way Bush & co. have severely mishandled their duties, I think there chance of winning reelection has dropped well below 5%.
Falcon Jet 1:
If U make $45K/year, in the US you are middle class. However, in the eyes of the world U are filthy rich. There are millions and millions of families worldwide that will NEVER, EVER make anything even close to $45K, and not in a year, but in the lifetimes of ALL of the family members combined. These people will never be able to afford even one internal-combustion engine in any type of equipment or vehicle, and will never have the wealth to EVER fly in an aircraft.
FLB717:
U R right! Bush flip-flops all the time. So does Kerry, and so did Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, FDR, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln had NO plans to free the slaves when he entered office, but the situation changed and he “flip-flopped” and freed the slaves in Confederate Territory towards the end of the war.
As a politician, to survive, U have to be all things to all people, which involves “flip-flopping”. If U tried to run on your convictions, without flip-flopping, U would win very few elections.
U R also, right, that U don’t feel rich. Anyone making 6 figures, even in the US is very wealthy. However, when U look around, talk to people, and look at advertising, there are always people making a ton more, so U don’t feel rich. Last year I read an article about research on income and wealth. It found that family units in the US didn’t feel fiscally secure until they mad over $150K/year. If U think about it, there are a lot of whole families making $20K and even $10K/yr. here in the US. In relation to them, U R rich. Relative to an NFL player making $750K, $100K is not a lot.
SWA Guy:
I could easily see how the Healthcare for ALL idea could be considered Socialistic. I just read interview of William Clay Ford, Jr. (the CEO of Ford Motor Co.) where he advocated just that. He said that health care costs are out of control, and it is hurting the economy because corporations can no longer afford to provide health care for its workers. He said that our current system is holding back hiring at corporations, and he thought that some type of single-payer system would make more economic sense for our country.
Also, a recent Business Week cover article focused on the problem of full-time workers who don’t have any benefits, and are paid so little, that they can’t afford to buy health care (and some of them are working 2 and 3 jobs and still can’t afford health care). Business Week’s point was that something has to be done to help them, which included providing health care in some form.
The last I checked, neither Ford Motor Co. nor Business Week were left-wing, socialist organizations.
USNFDX:
There are a TON of people now calling for an increased tax on gasoline, and most of them are either moderate or conservative.
The List that I’ve compiled in recent months:
Dick Cheney himself proposed taxing imported oil at a higher rate in the 1980s.
Gregory Mankiw, Chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors proposed a $.50/gal tax in 1999.
William Clay Ford, Jr. (CEO of Ford Motor Co.) said that Ford Motor Co, in the past, and currently, supports an additional tax of $.50/gal on gasoline.
G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. (Chairman and CEO of GM) and Robert A. Lutz (GM’s Vice Chairman) both support raising the federal tax on gasoline.
Gary Becker, a Nobel Prize winning economist at the U. of Chicago (traditionally VERY conservative)
Neoconservatives Irwin Stelzer of the Weekly Standard (he is also Director of Economic Policy Studies at the Hudson Institute) and Charles Krauthammer
Conservative Blogger Andrew Sullivan
Thomas Friedman, Paul Krugman, Denny Hakim and Gregg Easterbrook in the New York Times
David Ignatius, Washington Post
Economist Philip Verleger
Everybody:
I think there is a major economic/class disconnect among pilots, which actually makes sense logically.
Flying an aircraft is a Service Job, the same as scrubbing out a toilet at an office. We provide a service, and hence hold a blue-collar, working class position.
However, flying a plane is arguably a “Professional” career, and the top end pay is definitely light years above what a typical service worker makes (except for top end prostitutes). Many of us have a ton of education and training beyond high school, and consider ourselves middle or upper class because of our perceived job status and/or income.
ALPA is a union, just like any other blue-collar union, and it makes sense for them to typically endorse the Democratic candidate, since they are traditionally more likely to support the working man than the Republican Party. However, since many of us pilots consider ourselves white-collar or upper class, we, as individuals often favor the Republican Party. It is an interesting dichotomy.
Singlecoil
I don't reMember
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2002
- Posts
- 1,273
Tim47SP,
What Bush did that was do damaging to the ability of unions to negotiate was to state DURING NEGOTIATIONS, "I will not allow a strike at a major airline." No president had done that before. That immediately places all the power in the hands of management, for they know you can't hurt them financially by striking, as the president has made clear he won't allow it. That indirectly took money out of the pockets of ALPA members, because their bargaining position was weaker.
The American pilots when on strike when Clinton was in office for about 5 minutes before he ordered them back to work. The difference is that he kept his mouth shut about his plans while negotiations were ongoing so as not to poison the process. Big difference.
Bush let the Comair pilots strike because that would have really P.O.'ed organized labor in this country. The reason that the strike was not very effective from the pilots' standpoint has more to do with Delta willing to lose a lot of money, more than the contract would have cost, just to prevail and affect future agreements at other airlines.
Why would a strike at a major be so damaging to the U.S. economy. Aren't the economists all saying there is too much capacity in the marketplace which is holding down fares? The American strike would have severely impacted South American economies as they are just about the only horse in town in many of those markets. That was a big factor in Clinton's decision in my opinion. As I recall, the pilots were able to work out a pretty good deal in spite of the order to return to work.
What Bush did that was do damaging to the ability of unions to negotiate was to state DURING NEGOTIATIONS, "I will not allow a strike at a major airline." No president had done that before. That immediately places all the power in the hands of management, for they know you can't hurt them financially by striking, as the president has made clear he won't allow it. That indirectly took money out of the pockets of ALPA members, because their bargaining position was weaker.
The American pilots when on strike when Clinton was in office for about 5 minutes before he ordered them back to work. The difference is that he kept his mouth shut about his plans while negotiations were ongoing so as not to poison the process. Big difference.
Bush let the Comair pilots strike because that would have really P.O.'ed organized labor in this country. The reason that the strike was not very effective from the pilots' standpoint has more to do with Delta willing to lose a lot of money, more than the contract would have cost, just to prevail and affect future agreements at other airlines.
Why would a strike at a major be so damaging to the U.S. economy. Aren't the economists all saying there is too much capacity in the marketplace which is holding down fares? The American strike would have severely impacted South American economies as they are just about the only horse in town in many of those markets. That was a big factor in Clinton's decision in my opinion. As I recall, the pilots were able to work out a pretty good deal in spite of the order to return to work.
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