Alpa at Flex?

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I says a lot about someone's character when they choose to stand with Uncle at the expense of your fellow pilots Sounds like you are expecting special privileges. It's one thing to not send in your card. But you try to put it in everybody's face by saying you burned it. BTW we're you a draft dodger?

 

[el raton]

I says a lot about someone's character when they choose to stand with Uncle at the expense of your fellow pilots Sounds like you are expecting special privileges. It's one thing to not send in your card. But you try to put it in everybody's face by saying you burned it. BTW we're you a draft dodger?

He's selling us out for the Gulfstream 650.

 

[flex*wife]

I was a fence sitter, but after reading comments from some of the ITB guys here, I am happy to say that my card is not in the mail but burned!!

You guys don't want to listen to a lot of our issues period, there are so many jabs at guys sitting on the fence, example "cut him a brake he is on board " really??

I worked under a ALPA contract for years paid my dues and life was just fine, the IBT position is KR- Bad, ALPA- Bad, IBT - Good. We'll last I checked all of ALPA's leaders are accounted for, but old Jimmy is still missing?

My mom once told me that a tiger never changes his stripes only his tactics, we'll there it is my 2 cents.

You have a right to your opinion. If that opinion is hardly fought through research and due diligence than you also deserve respect whether or not it is in line with my own.

However, just be sure that you are truly making your decision based on the real threats to your career (both personally and to your pilot group - whatever you perceive them to be) and not simply because you dislike the way someone expresses their own opinion.

Unfortunately, the "I don't like the way you said that" argument ends up sounding like my teenage daughter when choosing boyfriends - she chooses whatever we're against for the simple fact she wants to assert her own independence. She burns bridges like you burn union cards I guess. She always ends up wishing she'd been more reasonable. Surely as grown man you are more reasonable than that...

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

He's selling us out for the Gulfstream 650.

Thanks el. Somehow that doesn't surprise me. To get into Uncle's club you have to be willing to sell out your fellow pilots in public. Then Uncle will make sure they get treated better than the rest of us.

 

[albatros101]

I am still a member of ALPA and find my self at flex due to my previous company filing bankruptcy. I am a proud card carrying union member (ALPA card with me all the time).

And no sir (Glorified Cabbie) did not burn the draft card, but proudly served my country, did you?

The attacks, name calling or intimidation you spit out will not help your case, I don't like what KR IS DOING to the pilot group, but the IBT is not the answer ( my opinion).

However if the IBT is voted in I will support it pay my dues, will volunteer to help improve it and to help my fellow pilots FO and Flex. All the name calling and insults from pro or anti union pilots are not helping our case at all. I am sure KR enjoy the semantics between the two groups and it just helps him not us.

So being a draft dodger, sell out, teenage girl and of bad character I hope we can still work together for the future of all our jobs.

 

[G4dude]

All this union brotherhood stuff is really fun to watch...

 

[Praetorian]

All this union brotherhood stuff is really fun to watch...

Don't you have a picket line you need to threaten to cross somewhere?

 

[ultrarunner]

"If we can?t reach a negotiated agreement on seniority integration, then McCaskill-Bond says a neutral arbitrator must issue a decision on integration that is ?fair and equitable.? There is no single methodology under the ?fair and equitable? standard and arbitrators consider a variety of factors.

With all due-respect V1, I believe the US/AW ruling, and US's subsequent actions, have shown that binding-arbitration, as you describe above, 'ain't worth the paper the arbitrator typed it on'.

Now, if the Nic list is sent to the APA, I'll stand corrected and send you a case of your fav.... ;-)

 

[flex*wife]

I am still a member of ALPA and find my self at flex due to my previous company filing bankruptcy. I am a proud card carrying union member (ALPA card with me all the time).

And no sir (Glorified Cabbie) did not burn the draft card, but proudly served my country, did you?

The attacks, name calling or intimidation you spit out will not help your case, I don't like what KR IS DOING to the pilot group, but the IBT is not the answer ( my opinion).

However if the IBT is voted in I will support it pay my dues, will volunteer to help improve it and to help my fellow pilots FO and Flex. All the name calling and insults from pro or anti union pilots are not helping our case at all. I am sure KR enjoy the semantics between the two groups and it just helps him not us.

So being a draft dodger, sell out, teenage girl and of bad character I hope we can still work together for the future of all our jobs.

No, I said I think you're better than that and to be careful about getting overly emotional in your decisions (like burning your union card) simply because you want to assert your independence or voice a little negativity back.

Okay so in your opinion IBT is not the answer. So then what is the answer? I'm pretty sure the guys in the know have said on here the other unions aren't interested.

Do you really think your pilot group can survive KR without a union? If so, what gives you that confidence? If your answer is no, remember IBT is the only union interested in helping you.

Don't be turned off by how people respond, just actually give them something to respond to...

Better yet go to the union boars and discuss it. Bonus for you is I'm not there! But I'm so happy to be left out of the discussion if it means you get somewhere.

 

[Flex605]

I along with tons of you did not like the ibt . Then I read the bios of all the people running the airline division of the ibt . They are all retired alpa guys from the majors . I did my due diligence and called and asked them questions . My honest conclusions - we need the ibt to protect us from kenn . No other choice . We simply cannot work for directional without a contract . Now that's something you can take to the bank . Bottom line if kenn and Dac had a history of doing right by people we would not even be having this discussion

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I along with tons of you did not like the ibt . Then I read the bios of all the people running the airline division of the ibt . They are all retired alpa guys from the majors . I did my due diligence and called and asked them questions . My honest conclusions - we need the ibt to protect us from kenn . No other choice . We simply cannot work for directional without a contract . Now that's something you can take to the bank . Bottom line if kenn and Dac had a history of doing right by people we would not even be having this discussion

Thanks Flex605, you certainly called like it is. The guys that fall for Uncle's sales pitch can never forecee themselves being targeted by the company. All they have seen so far is criticissm from those of us that lived thru "The Great Hate".

 

[shanes123]

The IBT Mentality thing here has to stop. The IBT is all of us and our fellow pilots. Some people are acting like the IBT is some outside foreign cancer thats invading our company..Thats crazy. EVERY PILOTS FLEX N FLOPS. Soon to be ONESKY can get on the board and help this pilot group as a whole not the 10% KR is looking to enrich while the other 90% loose everything

 

[cougar12]

The IBT Mentality thing here has to stop. The IBT is all of us and our fellow pilots. Some people are acting like the IBT is some outside foreign cancer thats invading our company..Thats crazy. EVERY PILOTS FLEX N FLOPS. Soon to be ONESKY can get on the board and help this pilot group as a whole not the 10% KR is looking to enrich while the other 90% loose everything

Agree 110%, people tend to forget that the teamsters are here only to advise us and those advisers were at Net Jets when they got their industry setting contract. We the pilots are the 1108. Let's work together to move our profession forward!

 

[jetwash]

Arn't all the people associated with the IBT1108 leadership and members pilots?
I think the secretary in the office is the only one who is not a pilot that is associated with this local.

All of us want the pilots of FO, Flex and TMC to be better paid and have better benefits since it raises the bar for all pilots.

 

[cougar12]

Arn't all the people associated with the IBT1108 leadership and members pilots?
I think the secretary in the office is the only one who is not a pilot that is associated with this local.

All of us want the pilots of FO, Flex and TMC to be better paid and have better benefits since it raises the bar for all pilots.

That's a fact! And this time management can not use the economy as a reason to to keep the bar low. Remember " the other guy's can't keep paying those kind of wages in this economy's" and "this will give us the competitive edge to grow this company's" rhetoric that we had to swallow.
I wish we had taped all of His company updates so we could show them to the Flex guy's so they know who they are dealing with.

 

[luckydog]

I didn't get any info on the other Flex Union thread so I'll post it here:

How many crew still on furlough or bypass at Options, and how will they be handled during the "fair and equitable" integration?

 

[BE40Driver]

They are 25 from the bottom of the list and should all be back by the time integration happens.

 

[luckydog]

They are 25 from the bottom of the list and should all be back by the time integration happens.

thanks

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Although V1 & I have had disagreements, I do appreciate that he’s done some extensive research and that he’s sent in his card.

Initially, I can see how an ALPA argument has interest. I, too , asked the same question years ago when DT (of the IBT) was sending single-paged mailers that read like an elementary grade booklet.

It’s easy to get hung up on what political candidates the Teamsters may endorse, but this stuff is small potatoes. Some of the PAC’s you donate to, the businesses you patronize, & your friends have different political beliefs, as well.

A lot has changed since 15 years ago and the 1108 is a different animal. The representation is professional and top-notch. Most of the Teamster managers came from ALPA & the lawyers do more than just show up to collect a paycheck: they believe in who & what they’re representing.

ALPA has a great deal of experience with 121 ops but, look, when it comes to my union, my pilot, my attorney, my doctor, and my strippers, I don’t believe in the “learn while you earn” program. Okay, well maybe for my strippers, that’s okay, but everyone else, I need someone who knows the game and has experience playing it.

ALPA is an outstanding organization, but you can find plenty of pilots dissatisfied with their work by visiting the Regional section of this board. True, the Regionals have had contracts, representation, and improvements to their work rules & pay. But in comparison to the majors, they’ve been whipsawed & kept as a B scale wage group.

Let’s not forget the US Airways vs. America West dispute. It’s unfair to label this as ALPA’s fault, but for all their efforts, US Airways has remained a divided work group. From September 2005, through the AA merger, these guys refused to see the long-term picture and have sacrificed millions.

That’s something we can’t do. This integration is going to occur. It’s inevitable. How FJ pilots wish to be represented is the question.

Even without Union representation, FJ will still be able to have a group to assist in the “fair and equitable” integration, but they’ll bear all the costs. And afterwards, they’ll have little recourse to defend whatever merger plan is accepted. Uncle will play along for a bit, then begin to place his favorites wherever he wants. Let’s face it: there won’t be a thing you’ll be able to do about it. He’s done it before, he’ll do it again.

No one at Flight Options ever asks what company we came from anymore, because it’s irrelevant: We’re all Flight Options. This history, too, will repeat itself. It’s just a going to take a little time, because, yes, integration IS going to happen.

Options pilots can’t do this alone, just as the Flex pilots can’t do it alone. This is what I hope you tell the fence-sitters: Flex is simply no more, no matter what fancy “storefront” uncle calls you. You, me, we’re all DAC from here on out.

Take a look at last week’s news about the West Coast Dock Worker’s Union. It’s incredible what a united, strong group of professional workers is capable of.

 

[dime line]

I want my Strippers experienced, they are professionals