Alpa at Flex?

[John MClain]

It's great that the smartest guy at the company decided to answer a simple question with such a condescending tone, he'll fit right in with the IBT guys on this site.

My question still stands, how is it inevitable?

Your answers makes some very big assumptions. You take it for granted that there will even be a vote, it's not a certainty by any means. You then take it a step further that the IBT will win, again it's not even close to a given. Several of the people I know that sent in cards did so hoping for an internal union or ALPA and had no intention of voting for the IBT so cards sent in doesn't equal votes for the IBT.

Even if the IBT is voted in at FJ, does it automatically mean single carrier?



So that leaves the case where the IBT is forced to file for single carrier. In that case, I think it's a long shot that Flex pilots would vote in the IBT.

That's two cases where the outcome is unknown, not inevitable.

Sorry you chose to take my disappointment / frustration as condescension. Smartest guy at the company? Not by a long shot. I have taken the time to read, ask questions and educate myself about the very important and career changing events taking place at Flexjet.

The fact that you feel my post had very big assumptions, or that a vote will not happen and that integration is not going to take place is indicative that you STILL do not understand, or worse just choose to not accept the reality of what we are facing.

A vote will happen. Either because enough cards are sent in or the NMB is petitioned for single carrier status.

Single carrier will be implemented and that REQUIRES the integration of the seniority lists. I don't know how much simpler this can be explained.

The answer to your question is Yes. If Flexjet votes in the 1108, then yes they would immediately file for single carrier.

If the 1108 petitions prior to Flexjet voting ( highly unlikely ) that would trigger a vote for representation by the Flexjet pilots. If they voted no, the 1108 goes away along with the CBA and integration of the 2 lists begins with the 1108 negotiating for Option pilots and DAC management deciding for the Flex pilots.

Correction, the FlightOptions part of the 1108 would cease and now TMC would takeover the running of the 1108.

 

[Frac Cap]

I can't say it any better than Fresh Air. The weak and uninformed will believe anything they are told by someone in authority, no matter how wrong it is. When you want to affect the outcome of a vote, and if perception is reality in managements mind, then they will tell you any lie to steer you to vote the way they want you to vote.

KR has been saying over a year that he wants to integrate the seniority list. Now that some are saying they don't want an integrated list, he is telling them what they want to hear even if it is wrong and not part of his long term plan. It makes no sense operationally to integrate all aspects of the two companies but to keep just this one area separated. It is impractical for a company to not take advantage of the cost savings that one side can save for the other by doing a trip where a plane is already at that location and not having to repo another aircraft in?

 

[doh]

Please explain, in detail, how/why integration is inevitable.

The number one reason integration is inevitable: Ricci wants it! Ignore RH because what he wants is not important to Ricci. Ricci's first choice is to put his hand picked, "loyal" pilots in the spots he wants them in. There is no legal reason he has to enforce a seniority list. Bombardier voluntarily supported the list, but only the union forces Ricci to enforce the list. He is more than happy to place his hand picked pilots anywhere on the list you want. He simply says from here on out you have to interview for all captain positions, and he places his guys on the planes he wants. That is in his book. Better pay, benefits and perks for the 20% or so he deems loyal. The rest of us get lower compensation and the leftover seats. Read his book. And remember, his first announcement of Red Label was interview for position. If you believe he will not go right back to that without a union, then you are naive. Read his book. It talks about the small percentage of loyal employees versus the rest of the pack. Remember the first presentation he gave? He referred to his book, indicating you could find out his philosophy by reading it, so he hasn't changed his mind about the things in that book. They are radically different than RH and co. are selling.
The second reason integration is inevitable is the Flight Options pilots will file for single carrier at some point in time. That triggers a legal requirement to integrate in a "fair and equitable" manner. Would you consider it fair if you were placed below someone with ten years less seniority? An arbitrator won't think so either.
Those are really the two reasons why integration is inevitable. I can't explain it any simpler than that.

 

[albatros101]

It's disappointing that 1 month into the union drive there are still those who don't understand what's happening. Here is the how/why integration IS inevitable;

When the union is voted in at Flexjet, single carrier status will be implemented. This by federal law requires integration of the seniority lists. In the unlikely event the union is not voted in, then things will continue as is with DAC management allowing Option pilots to transfer to Flexjet and proceed with their plan to slowly siphon off all new business and airplanes from Options. Eventually leaving what's left to whither on the vine and die. The only problem with that scenario and it's something that DAC management is routinely not telling you is that as soon as FlightOptions starts to shrink, the 1108 will immediately file for single carrier status regardless of whether it thinks the Flex pilots will vote yes.

The 1108 WILL NOT sacrifice the 300 or so pilots of FlightOptions. Integration will again be a legal requirement and WILL happen. FlightOptions pilots will still have the union negotiating on their behalf however and Flexjet will have God knows who negotiating the integration for us, provided we are dumb enough to vote no. If we do vote no, then we are all one big unhappy integrated family with no union, no CBA and will be AT WILL employees of Kenn Ricci.

God help us all if that happens.

C'mon Fellow Flexjet pilots, get educated about this stuff, make the smart choice and send in your card.

This is my point as well, the choice is; Lets call it the "them vs us " mentality on both sides.

1108 "the good guys" with KR the "bad guy" or
KR "the good guy" with 1108 the "bad guys"

At my previous airline the integration was "fair" but some guys got down graded and "junior" guys upgraded, the reason being the "integration quotas" and the realignment of crews and aircraft.

Everybody stayed in their seats for about 3 to 4 months, then came the first displacement and shortly after a new vacancy and their goes the "fair" integration.

Sadly the truth is lost some where in the middle.

 

[luckydog]

I'm just looking for some bit of real documentation that states a determination of single carrier automatically means a list integration.

I've found a couple of documents that specially state that the integration step follows the representation vote but these are not from an official NMB or NRLA site.

This makes me wonder what would happen if no union is selected after single carrier is established? And since McCaskill Bond is now law, does it apply if the two parties are not represented?

Since I'm not yet educated, maybe you can just show us all where this information is spelled out and save me from my own ignorance.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

What does your place on the seniority list even matter without a CBA? If Uncle had his way, we would be back to the days of his SFO program.

 

[shanes123]

GC has it exactly right..Who cares how anything is merged without a CBA KR will do whatever he wants anyway..GLOBAL PROGRAM!!!! Seniority means nothing to him. He will give you the list with your name on it but it won't mean ******************** when it comes time for vacations, upgrades, bidding...Hasnt he proved that with the Red Label program and the Globals

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

******************** when it comes time for vacations? I forgot about that one. I was maxed out and couldn't get any vaca days and was basically working for free.

 

[el raton]

Let it happen in its own time. You guys do more to dissuade those who are on the fence.

 

[doh]

Luckydog, here it is: http://us.practicallaw.com/6-514-5448?q=&qp=&qo=&qe=