Allegiant Reports First Quarter 2008 Financial Results

[PCL_128]

....and how are those contract negotiations going there for ya at the tranny?

They'd be much better if other pilot groups weren't stabbing us in the back while we try to raise the bar.

Go somewhere else and continue your ALPA sermons dude.

What does ALPA have to do with this? AAI is represented by the NPA, and you are represented by.....nobody!

 

[spinproof]

They'd be much better if other pilot groups weren't stabbing us in the back while we try to raise the bar.




What does ALPA have to do with this? AAI is represented by the NPA, and you are represented by.....nobody!

Well ALPO butt boy the same can be said for you!! Big talk from a right seat dinosaur driver!

 

[Ameriagle]

"They'd be much better if other pilot groups weren't stabbing us in the back while we try to raise the bar."

Dude, maybe you should take responsibility for your own negotiations, and stop making excuses! Your lack of progress is nobody's fault but your own.

 

[Ameriagle]

"What does ALPA have to do with this? AAI is represented by the NPA, and you are represented by.....nobody!"

Is this supposed to be a slight? This entire thread has been perpetuated by union pilots arguing about why there union is no longer effective! Sign me up!

 

[sioux1]

I work here and I do like it. It is probably the easiest job I've ever had. That being said this whole thread is just silly. We should not be comparing ourselves to UAL in any way. UALdriver does make some good points with total compensation. I did a calculation with retirement ours vs UAL. Here is what I came up with.

I used 2 pilots starting today at both carriers. For the AAY pilot, I upgraded him at 2 years. For the UAL pilot I upgraded him only at year ten, and kept him on the 737 the whole time. I also used a 70 hour guarantee for AAY and a 65 hour guarantee for UAL.
After 10 years, here is what their retirement looks like assuming no appreciation.

UAL - $97,590 AAY - $23,282

Note - The AAY pilot would have to contribute $46,564 of his own money to achieve that amount vs. the UAL pilot's contribution of 0.

I used current pay rates only. So if you add in our future raises (don't know UAL's) maybe you can add 5g's at most to our 401k. Still nowhere near equal. They also double our per diem rates. We also brag about being home every night and accept lower pay in light of that. While that is nice, in the long run it costs the company less to bring us home every night, so we should be making more from it not less. Also whoever included our profit sharing at $8 an hour is giving disinformation. While that was the case last year, that was anomoly. We will be lucky to see $2 an hour going forward if any at all.

I don't think we should be bragging about our rates at all. It is true that we seem to be working on them and that is what we should continue to focus our efforts on, not bragging on this board. This is after UAL took almost 50% pay cuts 5 years ago.

As far as a union here, I think that may eventually come, but we need much more participation for that to happen. Our current participation is about 10 guys that are burned out and with good reason. I think the negotiating power of a union would certainly help around here. At least then you have some teeth when you negotiate. But then again we need much more participation for that to work. I know it should not be ALPA. That union is broken, I think UALdriver would also admit to that. Too many internal problems.

We have a good thing going at Allegiant. I really enjoy this place. But we should focus our efforts internally to help organize this place better and not argue with pilots at other carriers. We should be using thier knowledge and experience (both mistakes and successes) to further our own compensation and thus every other pilot groups compensation. We are all tied together in this.

 

[Mr Wu]

Well, ain't that just wonderful. Thanks for undercutting our $137/hr rate, which is from a contract that's already been amendable for 3 years and was signed in 2001. While we try to negotiate something better, you brag about a rate that is already $13/hr less than ours. Thanks.

You keep bitching about our MD80 rate but you don't say a word about how your own 737 rates stand up against other 737 operators. About $25/hr less I believe. Watch out for those glass walls...

 

[Mr Wu]

They'd be much better if other pilot groups weren't stabbing us in the back while we try to raise the bar.

Seriously duuuuuude, you came from Pinnacle and Gulf$tream. Give it a rest with the backstabbing.

 

[PCL_128]

I know it should not be ALPA. That union is broken, I think UALdriver would also admit to that.

I think you would be wrong. UALdriver is smart enough to realize that ALPA isn't perfect, but it's the best thing that air line pilots have for improving our profession.

 

[PCL_128]

You keep bitching about our MD80 rate but you don't say a word about how your own 737 rates stand up against other 737 operators. About $25/hr less I believe. Watch out for those glass walls...

Top Captain rates for 737-700 Captains, highest to lowest:

SWA - $198
ALA - $154
DAL - $154
CAL - $147
AWA - $142
UAL - $133
AAA - $125

Avg - $150/hr
AAI - $153/hr

Looks like we come in above average, even with a 7-year old contract that has been amendable for over three years. Now, I'm not defending our pay rates, as I still think they suck compared to what they should be, but you are completely wrong about our rates being substandard. We have 737 Captains making more than widebody Captains at some of the legacies.

 

[Desert1]

I work here and I do like it. It is probably the easiest job I've ever had. That being said this whole thread is just silly. We should not be comparing ourselves to UAL in any way. UALdriver does make some good points with total compensation. I did a calculation with retirement ours vs UAL. Here is what I came up with.

I used 2 pilots starting today at both carriers. For the AAY pilot, I upgraded him at 2 years. For the UAL pilot I upgraded him only at year ten, and kept him on the 737 the whole time. I also used a 70 hour guarantee for AAY and a 65 hour guarantee for UAL.
After 10 years, here is what their retirement looks like assuming no appreciation.

UAL - $97,590 AAY - $23,282

Note - The AAY pilot would have to contribute $46,564 of his own money to achieve that amount vs. the UAL pilot's contribution of 0.

I used current pay rates only. So if you add in our future raises (don't know UAL's) maybe you can add 5g's at most to our 401k. Still nowhere near equal. They also double our per diem rates. We also brag about being home every night and accept lower pay in light of that. While that is nice, in the long run it costs the company less to bring us home every night, so we should be making more from it not less. Also whoever included our profit sharing at $8 an hour is giving disinformation. While that was the case last year, that was anomoly. We will be lucky to see $2 an hour going forward if any at all.

I don't think we should be bragging about our rates at all. It is true that we seem to be working on them and that is what we should continue to focus our efforts on, not bragging on this board. This is after UAL took almost 50% pay cuts 5 years ago.

As far as a union here, I think that may eventually come, but we need much more participation for that to happen. Our current participation is about 10 guys that are burned out and with good reason. I think the negotiating power of a union would certainly help around here. At least then you have some teeth when you negotiate. But then again we need much more participation for that to work. I know it should not be ALPA. That union is broken, I think UALdriver would also admit to that. Too many internal problems.

We have a good thing going at Allegiant. I really enjoy this place. But we should focus our efforts internally to help organize this place better and not argue with pilots at other carriers. We should be using thier knowledge and experience (both mistakes and successes) to further our own compensation and thus every other pilot groups compensation. We are all tied together in this.

Sioux, good post and you make some valid points. You'll forgive me however if I take issue with your repeated use of the term 'bragging' when referring to the AAY posts. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your thread, but you appear to be chastising the AAY guys that are merely defending our company (and yours?) against false and inaccurate accusations.

Not sure how much you've read, but you may want to take another look at the thread from the beginning. I say this because you appear to believe the AAY pilots started this confrontation. Not true: We're not bragging about our rates, we're setting the record straight. Look through the posts, you'll notice a series of accusations and unprovoked attacks levied against AAY (non-union, undercutters, etc). One went so far as to use his jump seat as a threat against non-union carriers (Quote: you'd better move to LAS because more and more Union pilots are refusing to give jumpseat rides to people who are stabbing us in the back.).

You're right, we do have it good here at AAY. But that didn't come without a lot of effort and sacrifice from our pilot group. A lot of guys that came before you have put forth a great deal of effort to gain the new rates that you now enjoy. We HAVE been "using our knowledge and experience to further our own compensation", it's been going on for 3 years and we have made remarkable improvements. As a pilot group, we are proud of our accomplishments and some on this board feel we should set the record straight. Again, not bragging.

Too many have worked too hard to take this garbage lying down. As you'll see in my post count, I seldom post on this board, but sometimes you have to take a stand.

As I'd mentioned in the previous post, my heart goes out to the good folks at UAL, they've lost a lot and deserve much better. But I disagree with the accusation that we are the culprits and are responsible for their loss. As you've seen on this thread, that line of reasoning can become a very slippery slope...

D1

 

[Thug Life]

Seriously duuuuuude, you came from Pinnacle and Gulf$tream. Give it a rest with the backstabbing.

PCL 128. All this talk from you and you paid for your job at Gulfstream? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[chperplt]

PCL 128. All this talk from you and you paid for your job at Gulfstream? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Funny... huh?

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Top Captain rates for 737-700 Captains, highest to lowest:

SWA - $198
ALA - $154
DAL - $154
CAL - $147
AWA - $142
UAL - $133
AAA - $125

Avg - $150/hr
AAI - $153/hr

Looks like we come in above average, even with a 7-year old contract that has been amendable for over three years. Now, I'm not defending our pay rates, as I still think they suck compared to what they should be, but you are completely wrong about our rates being substandard. We have 737 Captains making more than widebody Captains at some of the legacies.

Don't forget to include American Airlines at $163/hr for a 12 year B737 captain.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Sioux1,
Not sure how you planned this, but how did you arrive at an AAY pilot investing over $46,000 and ending up with only $23,000??? Are you saying that we would actually lose 50% of our money by investing it in a 401K? I'm sure I must be reading that wrong; please explain.

Also, you didn't include the pay difference vs upgrade. I did a simple comparison, kind of like your retirement comparison a couple months ago which showed an AAY pilot should earn approx $170,000 more than a UAL pilot over a 12 year period. Calculate that into the retirement of both airlines and you still come out over $110,000 ahead after 12 years by being at Allegiant and that doesn't include any raises in pay.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't forget to include American Airlines at $163/hr for a 12 year B737 captain.

Those are 737-800s, which we don't fly. If we get them, our payrate is about $10 higher than the legacy carriers flying it.