All Nwa Groups Now Have A Bullseye

[320AV8R]

"It's because AMFA is an independent union, and independent unions are not welcome in the union family.

What is this guy smokin' ?

I guess since the pilot "unions" at SWA, UPS, AirTran, etc.... aren't ALPA, they aren't unions either ?

Gimme a break,

320AV8R

 

[Dave Benjamin]

If ALPA supported AMFA and threatened to walk do you think Bush would have set up a PEB?

If so AMFA mechs would still be working at contract rates and the scabs would remain on payroll but on the sidelines, correct?

Seems like that would leave labor in a better position.

 

[sf3boy]

The reason that ALPA doesn't honor the mechanics picket line due to them being non AFL-CIO has got to take the award for the weakest dick excuse ever. It is just a nice diversion. ALPA will only honor a picket line and it financially benefits them, i.e. their own picket line.

ALPA claims that if the airline shutdown, BK would then soon follow. News flash to ALPA......BK court has a better than 90% chance of being in your future anyway. The FA's are next up and management is looking to lay off scores of them. After that, here they come for the pilots. NWA ALPA can toss their scope section right into the trash.

Of course, this is all my own speculation. I hope it goes 180 degrees the other way, but NWA has been planning this for a lot longer than anyone cares to admit.

 

[320AV8R]

The reason that ALPA doesn't honor the mechanics picket line due to them being non AFL-CIO.......

What evidence do you have to support this claim ? It has nothing to do with AMFA not being part of the AFL-CIO.

ALPA claims that if the airline shutdown, BK would then soon follow.

Yea....like in a matter of days. Would that be in the pilot's best interest ? Loss of pensions, gutted contract, scope.....what scope ?

News flash to ALPA......BK court has a better than 90% chance of being in your future anyway.

Maybe...maybe not, time will tell. But it's better to avoid it, if possible, thereby retaining some control in the bargaining process.

The FA's are next up and management is looking to lay off scores of them. After that, here they come for the pilots. NWA ALPA can toss their scope section right into the trash.

Maybe....NWA will play the scope vs pension game.

Of course, this is all my own speculation.

Thank God for that.

I hope it goes 180 degrees the other way, but NWA has been planning this for a lot longer than anyone cares to admit

I hope it works out, too. They have planned it........just like the Pilot Lockout fiasco in 1998, that cost them One Billion Dollars.

320AV8R

 

[vtwo]

320 , what cleaner ever made 52.00 hr?
I know cleaners, and mechanics there. Is 52.00 hr the pay they get for double time and a half maybe. ie... 8hr reg pay for holiday plus time and a half for working on the hloiday. really the nubers are about 24.50 hr for a cleaner.. is that too much in your eyes.???

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey vtwo,
Yes, $24.50 is too much.

Hey 320AV8R,
Good posts.

 

[vtwo]

Deli guy. I say your wrong. 24.50 hr times 40hr a week =980 per week

980 per week times 52 weeks =50,960$ that is the bottom of middle class. do you recomend that we pay minimum wage for people to clean, and stock our planes. imigrant may be or high schoolers or drop outs with no career intention . or do we pay a decent wage to mature adults who will not be putting a special package on you plane when somone gives him 5000. extra to look away.


Think about it you get waht you pay for. If everthing was about doing it the cheapest way you can, you would not have a quality product.

SAFE ,SMART, LEGAL,

Not cheap cheap and just bareley good enough

 

[vtwo]

Oh yea deli guy.

Your job is on the list of cuts also

all of labor is being attacked. your no better than a cleaner, a mechanic, a flight engineer, or a manager. Labor is labor and it costs what they negotiate

 

[Redmeat]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/465/5585717.html

Good ol' Northwest Airlines.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey v two,
I disagree. $51,000 is a bunch of money for a company to pay someone to take out the trash. That $52,000 does not count the medical, dental, retirement. That is why the regionals and the LCC's pay about $12.00 an hour with no benefits and no retirement. That is why NW mgmt demanded cuts. When AMFA boxed themselves in through outrageous negotiating, NW mgmt cut them off at the knees (as predicted by ALPA) I know my job is on the line and that is why I have a labor organization called ALPA to represent me. I support them.

The concept that it would take an extra $5000 for someone to slip something extra on my airplane is.......kooky. The guys who want something on my airplane would do it for 72 virgins in Valhalla or... wherever.

The concept that all of labor is under attack should be directed to most of us on this board. Again, I am not sure where you work but I see a 757 on your profile. Why get mad at me for standing by ALPA. That is my labor union. Is that not marxist enough for you? Should I wear a red arm band and burn American flags in the street until all lazy uneducated people who clean up the trash are elevated to $51,000 plus benefits? Airline labor is under attack because it is a business. If someone can do it cheaper, everyone must do it cheaper, and those that do not react--die. LCCs and regionals are doing it cheaper. That is what NW management is smashing in our face.
Again, with no bitterness or anger, what is driving these draconian demands is the changed landscape in the aviation industry. LCC guys get on this board and slam me because I do not stand by AMFA. What union do they stand by? Regional guys want me to stand up to management by supporting AMFA's crazy demands--so that their (regional guys) future is better. "Support labor!" they scream like the sheep from George Orwell's Animal Farm What are their mechanics making? We are all causing each other problems. Give NW ALPA their turn. They have only been setting the industry standard since 1929. Why not wait and see what they do?

P.S. If I do get furloughed from my pilot job, can I come live in your fantasy world where the starting pay for unskilled work starts at $51,000 plus bennies?

 

[FN FAL]

Deli guy. I say your wrong. 24.50 hr times 40hr a week =980 per week

980 per week times 52 weeks =50,960$ that is the bottom of middle class. do you recomend that we pay minimum wage for people to clean, and stock our planes. imigrant may be or high schoolers or drop outs with no career intention . or do we pay a decent wage to mature adults who will not be putting a special package on you plane when somone gives him 5000. extra to look away.

Good point...just imagine what kind of crap they could get on those planes at 5.50 an hour?

 

[FN FAL]

P.S. If I do get furloughed from my pilot job, can I come live in your fantasy world where the starting pay for unskilled work starts at $51,000 plus bennies?

I could set you up with something like that, but you'd have to be willing to learn how to produce something.

 

[Redmeat]

Hey v two,
I disagree. $51,000 is a bunch of money for a company to pay someone to take out the trash. That $52,000 does not count the medical, dental, retirement. That is why the regionals and the LCC's pay about $12.00 an hour with no benefits and no retirement. That is why NW mgmt demanded cuts.

If you agree that a NW cleaner should make what the average LCC cleaner makes, or that a NW mechanic should make what the average LCC mechanic makes, then by that rational you must believe that a NW pilot should make what the average LCC pilot makes. Correct?


Goose and Gander kinda thing.

 

[sf3boy]

Maybe....NWA will play the scope vs pension game.

You are absolutely correct. It will be interesting to see how much solidarity there is in NW ALPA when the heavy captains are asked to give up their retirement to keep the 9 routes and aircraft. I know how the senior guys would vote at my airline if we were faced with the same problem.

Don't get me wrong, I hate all of this. But here's a question: How will NW ALPA feel when 9 flying is routed to a regional 70-90 seat aircraft and BK is avoided? Will that be considered a vicotry for the pilots?

 

[sf3boy]

If you agree that a NW cleaner should make what the average LCC cleaner makes, or that a NW mechanic should make what the average LCC mechanic makes, then by that rational you must believe that a NW pilot should make what the average LCC pilot makes. Correct?


Goose and Gander kinda thing.

An excellent question.