Alaska new-hire denied ALPA, Rumor?

[USCtrojan]

If that's in reference to Trojan's post, he's an ASA dirtbag too. A damn fine dirtbag, but a dirtbag nonetheless.

Hey I resemble that remark, you ASA Dirtbag!

Trojan

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

At FedEx, ALPA (FPA) represented a non member when he was terminated. Made a believer out of the non member... joined and paid back dues...

 

[Medeco]

Maybe I can shed a little light on the subject.

I was at a SkyWest ALPA info meeting listening a pilot from the ALASKA ALPA MEC telling this story.

He said that he was in charge of ALPA orientation for new hires at Alaska. When passing out the required forms to sign up for ALPA he met one of our former SkyWest pilots who was a new hire. He asked him a little about the organizing effort at SkyWest and the pilot admitted that he had not sent in his card. The Alaska guy took the opportunity to kind of give the new hire a hard time, asking why he was so willing to sign up for ALPA at Alaska when he was unwilling to send in a card at SkyWest.

At one point he may have even taken the application for ALPA membership from the new hire temporarily. I don't think he was "DENIED" ALPA membership but he was called out to explain the perceived hypocracy (or apathy).

There may have been another incident I am not aware of but this is the one that I am familiar with.

(Lets all do ourselves a favor and let this thread DIE.)

The same story was explained at a recent ASA ALPA lunch. The point of the story being, that if you dont think you need ALPA at Skywest why would you then need it at ALASKA? We were told he was denied membership.

In other words, if you want to get your time at Skywest an move on, it would help you and your fellow pilots to vote for ALPA or ANY OTHER UNION to give you a collective voice.

The Skywest ALPA vote will play a role in your career. Does this circumstance happen to everyone? No, but it could, and it sure would suck to be called out like this guy was.

Medeco

 

[flyinghunter]

So is the new reason that I need to vote for ALPA? That if I don't vote it will somehow impeed me from flying for a major at some point down the road? I'm still waiting for a real reason to vote alpa in, i personally don't think they work for regionals, they might be good for the majors because that's who designed them and that's who they cater to. At least that's my opinion.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Dude- the guys who designed ALPA were flying single engine, open-cockpit bi=planes. Flying routes like FAR-ORD in the winter.

These same guys got together and decided it didn't matter if you were flying a single engine Curtiss or a DC-3, you didn't have to take it from the "MAN" just to have a job.

Educate yourself, then feel free to form an opinion.

 

[BoilerUP]

At least that's my opinion.

Why doesn't ALPA "work" for regionals?

 

[flyinghunter]

Just for the record, I've worked for an ALPA regional. I stand corrected about how ALPA was formed and I should've chosen my words more wisely, sorry. But to me, the idea of one organization having the ability to keep both groups of pilots desires equal doesn't work.

The regionals as they are designed are a place to get experience in the 121 environment and then move on, the majors are the place to live out the career, in my opinion. I know some become lifers at the regionals. I think that ALPA as an orginization represents major airlines. I think that's what they should be doing. Perserving our ultimate careers, I don't know anybody who got into flying so they can fly an RJ or Turboprop for the rest of their careers. I want my future career perserved. I just don't know what ALPA as a group has done to give regional pilots a better QOL.

I know that ALPA has some things to offer than non-representation doesn't but I personally don't think that means we have to have it to get anything. After all the union is only as good as the MEC, but still it's only as good as the two groups want to work with each other and then the mediator involved with the negotiations. I would support the union if someone could give me a reason to support them other than they'll protect me if i screw up.

I don't pretend to know everything about ALPA or unions in general, I was just asking the question about why to vote them in. Most of the reasons people have given me seem to be answering a question with a question, like what if you get your certificate revoked, stuff like that. I'm open ears.

 

[BoilerUP]

I just don't know what ALPA as a group has done to give regional pilots a better QOL.

Understand ALPA is not some entity in Herndon, Virginia. ALPA is every pilot that carries a card or wears a pin, pays dues and has a bag sticker. We the pilots are ALPA, and ALPA at each airline and as a whole is as effective as the weakest link of its unity.

My ALPA-represented regional airline has trip/duty rigs and min day credit, 12 days off a month for all pilots, minimum in-domicile rest, commuter clause, a mandatory 401k contribution that is very similar to a "B fund"...and we have a concessionary agreement! The company didn't give the pilot group these things out of the kindness of their hearts...the pilot group fought very hard, over multiple negotiations, to gain those things. ALPA National provided legal and financial assistance during those negotiations, but ultimately the pilots gained those things via their hard work and dedication of selfless volunteers. I wasn't here then, but I benefit from their efforts and it is my duty to defend and improve upon that base.

There have been failures of leadership from ALPA National, that goes without saying...but National takes far too much blame for the bad and gets far too little credit for the good.

If you're ready and willing to fight for improvements that you deserve, ALPA is for you. If you are willing to accept whatever you're given...then perhaps it isn't.

 

[PCL_128]

I was about to post a long response, but Boiler said it just as good as I could. Nice post.

 

[MoroniMetro]

Maybe I can shed a little light on the subject.

I was at a SkyWest ALPA info meeting listening a pilot from the ALASKA ALPA MEC telling this story.

He said that he was in charge of ALPA orientation for new hires at Alaska. When passing out the required forms to sign up for ALPA he met one of our former SkyWest pilots who was a new hire. He asked him a little about the organizing effort at SkyWest and the pilot admitted that he had not sent in his card. The Alaska guy took the opportunity to kind of give the new hire a hard time, asking why he was so willing to sign up for ALPA at Alaska when he was unwilling to send in a card at SkyWest.

At one point he may have even taken the application for ALPA membership from the new hire temporarily. I don't think he was "DENIED" ALPA membership but he was called out to explain the perceived hypocracy (or apathy).

There may have been another incident I am not aware of but this is the one that I am familiar with.

(Lets all do ourselves a favor and let this thread DIE.)

Thanks, that sounds a lot like the story I heard.

 

[PCL_128]

We were told he was denied membership.

Unless his name is on a certain famous list, then he wasn't denied membership. ALPA doesn't just go around denying memberships.

 

[flyinghunter]

thanks for the good post boiler, all food for thought, my only question for you is how does alpa help you get those things. I know that it's only as strong as the members, but how does alpa national help me, how would they be different than say teamsters or an inhouse union?

 

[MoroniMetro]

Well said Boiler,

I just wanted to add, on a National Level, the ALPA Safety divison is an unbelievable resource for ALPA memembers. God forbid an accident or incident ever happens, but when it does, the resources ALPA has to back its members are unparalled by any company. The NTSB requests information and help from ALPA for godsakes!

 

[shamrock]

I know that it's only as strong as the members, but how does alpa national help me, how would they be different than say teamsters or an inhouse union?

Specialization? Resources?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

how does alpa national help me, how would they be different than say teamsters or an inhouse union?

Read the magazine.

ALPA "National" particaptes in the international arena. For example the criminalization of pilots, open skies, foreign control, cabatoge, cargo security and safety, aircraft engineering and develpment, etc..

Recently the US/EU deal on open skies was quite contentious... ALPA fought hard for labor to included. Without ALPA "nationals" involvment, the changes that will take place on March 2008 would've been worse...

The real question is what isn't ALPA national doing for you...


The real fustrating part of ALPA effectiveness is its members constant effort to devalue and sand bag the very and ONLY organization that represents pilot careers. Instead of trying to figure out why ALPA stinks..why not figure out the real reasons why ALPA isn't as effective as you want it to be....

 

[Tarzan]

Read the magazine.

ALPA "National" particaptes in the international arena. For example the criminalization of pilots, open skies, foreign control, cabatoge, cargo security and safety, aircraft engineering and develpment, etc..

Recently the US/EU deal on open skies was quite contentious... ALPA fought hard for labor to included. Without ALPA "nationals" involvment, the changes that will take place on March 2008 would've been worse...

Let me say first that my political views slant strongly conservative. I feel the market should be allowed to work. BUT, without a counterweight, the market will allow for monopolies and oligopolies. These in turn generate abuses of the folks who make the wheels turns. ALPA is the counterweight which works in our favor.

I hate when ALPA-ites toss the "greedy". We all want ours and it makes this country as successful as it is. But in the end, those on top will drive us into the ground to line their pockets. I don't fault them. I want as much as I can get too but at the very least, we have some sort of legal protections and rights to further our stance.

Most importantly, it gives us a lobby in DC since lobbies make DC's wheels go 'round. The companies have theirs to help them make theirs, why not us.

ALPA ain't perfect but I am thankful it's there.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Let me say first that my political views slant strongly conservative. I feel the market should be allowed to work. BUT, without a counterweight, the market will allow for monopolies and oligopolies. These in turn generate abuses of the folks who make the wheels turns. ALPA is the counterweight which works in our favor.

I hate when ALPA-ites toss the "greedy". We all want ours and it makes this country as successful as it is. But in the end, those on top will drive us into the ground to line their pockets. I don't fault them. I want as much as I can get too but at the very least, we have some sort of legal protections and rights to further our stance.

Most importantly, it gives us a lobby in DC since lobbies make DC's wheels go 'round. The companies have theirs to help them make theirs, why not us.

ALPA ain't perfect but I am thankful it's there.

But it could be so much better..... You don't see UAW members trying to undercut other UAW members..... You do see the UAW negotiate the same accross company lines.....

ALPA has much more potential......

 

[Mookie]

But it could be so much better..... You don't see UAW members trying to undercut other UAW members..... You do see the UAW negotiate the same accross company lines.....

ALPA has much more potential......

if you are looking at apples to apples with alpa vs uaw...then I'd say the uaw has some serious cabotage issues that alpa, as yet, doesn't have to deal with (toyota, honda, hyundai, VW, etc....)

remember guys, we are all (all airlines) commodities right now. there is nothing in the consumer's mind other than price. it's the truth and the sooner we realize it, the better....
Mookie

 

[JoeMerchant]

if you are looking at apples to apples with alpa vs uaw...then I'd say the uaw has some serious cabotage issues that alpa, as yet, doesn't have to deal with (toyota, honda, hyundai, VW, etc....)

remember guys, we are all (all airlines) commodities right now. there is nothing in the consumer's mind other than price. it's the truth and the sooner we realize it, the better....
Mookie

I'm more worried about Mesa than the Chinese.... Let's deal with ALPA members undercutting ALPA members first..... then we can focus on cabotage.... Deal with the current emergency before you start to worry about the next one.....

 

[PCL_128]

I'm more worried about Mesa than the Chinese.... Let's deal with ALPA members undercutting ALPA members first..... then we can focus on cabotage.... Deal with the current emergency before you start to worry about the next one.....

Very bad strategy. By the time you get around to worrying about the next problem, then it's already too late. Fighting things like cabotage and foreign control is a constant battle. You can't just shelve it and worry about it later on.