Alaska management verbally announces furloughs for

[Baze]

this is all a bull******************** ruse. I still think we're going to be hiring by June. this is going to be very very interesting.

Mookie,

I hope you're right. But, this management team has show that they are arrogant and stubborn. They will waste a lot of $$$$ just to make a point.

I'm just going to assume that I'll be gone come late December / early January. I'm planning accordingly.

 

[regionaltard]

I don't know what VSA stands for, but I'll be displaced this round, maybe furloughed the next. The point is that none of this was caused by people senior to me and I don't look for them to make sacrifices just to make it easier on me.

If you're looking for a handout instead of getting on with your life, you're wasting your time.

Pathetic sentiment.

I'll take one of him over ten of you 7 days a week. Why don't you Google "external locus of control" and tell me what you think?

 

[Ocity]

I'll take one of him over ten of you 7 days a week. Why don't you Google "external locus of control" and tell me what you think?

In the end, I believe the locus of control is internal. I done learned me that in college. However, that in no way dilutes the power of true unionism and the fight for the greater good. Any Alaska pilot hired after 1980 has had a smooth journey, (relative to the industry). Now, for the first time, it seems that a little sacrifice may be in order and the "you made your bed" crowd not only rears it's ugly head, it's defended.

Google "Labor Union" and tell me what you think.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

No argument there.

I'll get over it the second you get over giving Scabs, PFT'ers, CEOs, Hulas, Gojets, (ex Waterski myself) and the rest a hard time.

They're all in the same boat as far as I'm concerned. I truly don't see how you can have such a problem jumping seniority and no problem whatsoever with helping yourself to another five years of it. But hey, it seems you've settled in as a lifer regional Captain and simply don't care because it isn't affecting you personally. Good for you, you got yours. Everyone else can suck it while you laugh. You sound just like Sanjay.

Life is indeed tough, and people screwing you is part of it. Letting those people tell themselves that they didn't screw you and pretending that it didn't matter just means that they turned you out.

You haven't read many of my posts have you. As an ex-waterskiier, and a hardcore union organizer I have railed on about all the above. The age 65 thing is in response to the outright theft of more than a few friends pensions by the thieves that call themselves airline execs. I would kick Hulas into last week with a 2X4 if I wouldn't get state time for A&B. I am so disgusted with the airline industry, I am actively seeking employment else where, to be quite honest airline pilots are the primary reason, the short sightedness and absolutely middle of the IQ range of the current crop of airline pilots coupled with a complete lack of testicular fortitude are the primary reason. You guys just don't get it, you have the potential to have the industry by the short and curlies, yet you collectively bend over and stick your azzes in the air and then complain when ALPA doesn't provide any "free" lube. I guess that is the difference between the "greatest generation" and their generation "X" counterparts, in short you all are a bunch of pussies and are getting exactly what you deserve. I will not be on this ride for much longer, but will return here often to throw rocks at the collection of losers who remain glued to their jizz encrusted yokes and seats "because they love to fly", enjoy your nifty little hats and suitcases with wheels, because those are the only things you will have in the near future. Wait till McPain and his cronies "open" up the USA skies to foreign carriers and put you on the street, but don't fret JO will have the China operation up and running and will offer you a deeply discounted job, because you "love to fly". Hope you like the "Beyongphu" domicile.
PBR
For you less than bright, the "teen hookers " analogy was a metaphor. But being smart college grads from ER and UND you knew that right?

 

[lowtimedriver]

CEO's, CFO's, COO's - Ruining careers and companies for their own glory and personal profit. I have a few ideas what I would like to do with these guys. Overpaid business majors who belong to the good old boy network.

 

[QCappy]

The age 65 thing is in response to the outright theft of more than a few friends pensions by the thieves that call themselves airline execs.

And in case you missed it PBR, everyone over 60 at Alaska can retire with a full pension. Your BS has no relevence in this discussion.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

And in case you missed it PBR, everyone over 60 at Alaska can retire with a full pension. Your BS has no relevence in this discussion.

The world is a bit larger than tour own private micro-sphere of influence. I have more than a few UAL friends who were wiped out in the BK, if you think you are immune from that type of outright theft, think again. The airline CEO klub are only slightly brighter than the airline pilot group and as such will steal your pension too, because stealing from you is easier than raising fares and making a profit honestly. Your pension is gone, it just hasn't left your personal account YET. But I guess they should have legislated the 65 rule to exclude the ALASKA pilots. BTW if you don't like the 65 thing, get your pilot group to change it in the next contract, or heck get it amended now. Your short sighted attitude is why the industry is in the condition it is, you allowed it. All you had to do, is every pilot on the seniority list prepare a letter of resignation effective when the first furlough hits the street, and poof, no furloughs, the company would blink first, because they are only slightly smarter than the pilots, and even they could see, wifout da poilts dere is no airline. But you pussies missed that day in class and managed to be standing on the wrong side of the door when the testicles were handed out. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. Its not too late, grow a pair and realize, "WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE LAST GUY ON THE SENIORITY LIST IS GOOD FOR #1 TOO" The last guy will get his first, but the #1 guy will get his eventually.
PBR
P.S. Read the sig line, it will work for you too! P.S.S. It's a metaphor.

 

[dashtrash]

And in case you missed it PBR, everyone over 60 at Alaska can retire with a full pension. Your BS has no relevence in this discussion.

He's a self described rock thrower. Treat him as such.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

He's a self described rock thrower. Treat him as such.

Truth hurts when its applied to you, doesn't it?
PBR

 

[Fubijaakr]

For those of you non-AS types, VSA means Voluntary Senior Available. It originated by the pilots Negotiating Committee during a concessionary contract cycle to the the "senior pilot's pay raise." It works like this...on your days off you make yourself available to Crew Skeds for assignment. If you are assigned a trip, you get paid time and a half for everything over the 85 hour max. Until you reach 85 hours, VSA is paid at straight time.

When the pilot's originated the program and the MEC ratified it, the order of assignment was agreed to be:

Long call reserves
VSA volunteers
Short call reserves

However, while that was put in the contract, the language was not concrete. A crew scheduling manager figured out there was no prohibition or limitation on how many pilots or how often he could convert long call reserves to short call.

He instituted a policy of routinely converting all the long call reserve pilots to short call so he could staff open trips with VSA pilots and protect his reserve pool. There was (and is) NOTHING in the contract to prevent this.

As a result, long call reserve is pretty much non-existant. In my 4.5 years on reserve I had long call exactly 6 days. You can see why reserve pilots are pretty much opposed to the VSA program.

VSA is a contentious issue and the Company enjoys using it to "divide and conquer" the pilot group. Its an effective tactic and is working quite well on a daily basis.

 

[regionaltard]

In the end, I believe the locus of control is internal.

Not for guys who whine about how unfair life is because the senior guys won't vacate "their" seats. The age 65 ranters really need to get over it and move on.

However, that in no way dilutes the power of true unionism and the fight for the greater good. Any Alaska pilot hired after 1980 has had a smooth journey, (relative to the industry). Now, for the first time, it seems that a little sacrifice may be in order and the "you made your bed" crowd not only rears it's ugly head, it's defended.

Google "Labor Union" and tell me what you think.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Both VSA and the arbitration clause that came to fruition with the Kasher award were negotiated by the union/artfully inserted in the contract by management (take your pick) arguably to benefit the most senior pilots. That was the original sin; language that only has the potential to benefit a portion of the group while risking injury to all doesn't even pass the most elementary sniff test. That doesn't excuse pilots who facilitate management's agenda by making themselves available for VSA flying, but that's a subject for peer-to-peer discussions at the airline.

 

[tico]

The 165 number is really over blown......The facts show that we have reduced our schedule in SEA and LAX by 11%......For staffing to remain the same as it has always been we need to furlough 58 co-pilots and downgrade 30 captains. (20c/22f from sea and10c/6f from lax)...If they follow on with another 11% reduction for LAX and SEA as they have said they will in 2009 than we need to furlough an additional 55 copilots and downgrade 28 captains......58 captain downgrades and 113 co- pilot furloughs.....Any number greater than that and we are going to be operating well below our normal(short) staffing level....I think the 165 number is 68% accurate and 32% management horse$hit

 

[zman]

You haven't read many of my posts have you. As an ex-waterskiier, and a hardcore union organizer I have railed on about all the above. The age 65 thing is in response to the outright theft of more than a few friends pensions by the thieves that call themselves airline execs. I would kick Hulas into last week with a 2X4 if I wouldn't get state time for A&B. I am so disgusted with the airline industry, I am actively seeking employment else where, to be quite honest airline pilots are the primary reason, the short sightedness and absolutely middle of the IQ range of the current crop of airline pilots coupled with a complete lack of testicular fortitude are the primary reason. You guys just don't get it, you have the potential to have the industry by the short and curlies, yet you collectively bend over and stick your azzes in the air and then complain when ALPA doesn't provide any "free" lube. I guess that is the difference between the "greatest generation" and their generation "X" counterparts, in short you all are a bunch of pussies and are getting exactly what you deserve. I will not be on this ride for much longer, but will return here often to throw rocks at the collection of losers who remain glued to their jizz encrusted yokes and seats "because they love to fly", enjoy your nifty little hats and suitcases with wheels, because those are the only things you will have in the near future. Wait till McPain and his cronies "open" up the USA skies to foreign carriers and put you on the street, but don't fret JO will have the China operation up and running and will offer you a deeply discounted job, because you "love to fly". Hope you like the "Beyongphu" domicile.
PBR
For you less than bright, the "teen hookers " analogy was a metaphor. But being smart college grads from ER and UND you knew that right?

No body could have put it better!!!

 

[funnyman12]

Be careful on predictions....we at Airtran thought the 177 furloughs the company claimed was inflated. Even some in our union thought it would be less. It was actually more when you include the leave of absences. We are in negotiations and it shall be interesting to see what the company uses to scare us in the future. Good luck...we are all gonna need it.

 

[clippyrip]

I guess that is the difference between the "greatest generation" and their generation "X" counterparts, in short you all are a bunch of pussies and are getting exactly what you deserve.

It is interesting that you would blame the state of the industry on the "X" generation. It is only in the last 5 to 10 years that the those of us in the "X" generation started getting jobs at the mainline level. Aviation was on the decline far before we got here. Its laughable that you would put the blame on those of us who just showed up. Classic "me" generation BS.

 

[Full of LUV]

I would agree

It is interesting that you would blame the state of the industry on the "X" generation. It is only in the last 5 to 10 years that the those of us in the "X" generation started getting jobs at the mainline level. Aviation was on the decline far before we got here. Its laughable that you would put the blame on those of us who just showed up. Classic "me" generation BS.

How many "gen Xers" riding in the left seat, let alone in a union position? They are inheriting an industry in a tail spin from 9/11 and age 65 changes to "cover the shortage" of pilots. Most have never had any access to any pension, so the loss of one seems somewhat inconsequential. Most Gen X'ers have had to pay for their school and foot their own bill through this process only to arrive to an industry that says, come aboard, but as soon as things slow down, watch out. Everyone knows that furloughs are part of the job, so are strikes and BK's..... but watching out for the senior pilots wasn't clearly explained. Don't worry though, the Age 70 push won't happen for at least a few more years.

 

[chucklhed]

The 165 number is really over blown......The facts show that we have reduced our schedule in SEA and LAX by 11%......For staffing to remain the same as it has always been we need to furlough 58 co-pilots and downgrade 30 captains. (20c/22f from sea and10c/6f from lax)...If they follow on with another 11% reduction for LAX and SEA as they have said they will in 2009 than we need to furlough an additional 55 copilots and downgrade 28 captains......58 captain downgrades and 113 co- pilot furloughs.....Any number greater than that and we are going to be operating well below our normal(short) staffing level....I think the 165 number is 68% accurate and 32% management horse$hit

That's FANTASTIC news!....... Unless you happen to be in that 113.

 

[Baze]

Today's number is 200. Yes, GS has alluded to furloughing up to 200 pilots! That will take it back
all the way to March 20, 2006.

I think the lies are going to get bigger until they get
a reaction out of this pilot group.

Most of us are fed up already and would rather get
furloughed than to put up with a paltry 1% raise
that they are offering.

IF, and that is a big IF, they furlough 200, then I'm
sure they've got some regional du jour ready to
fly some of our routes. I'm sure they'll celebrate
the arrival of the newest E-190 with the Eskimo
on the tail in the SEA hangar some time next year.

 

[kingair1]

Fuc* This Whole Airline Industry. So Sick Of The Shi*

 

[ReverseSensing]

Bill Ayer and his merry band of Biz school drop-outs have apparently stumbled upon a successful business model that involves pissing off nearly every single front-line employee in the operation. We really do need a change of management, but sadly the BOD is asleep at the wheel.

Better get rid of the rest of the AAG stock as quickly as possible before this whole house of cards comes tumbling down.