Alaska contract

[Ocity]

Not much dissent at the road show. Negotiating committee has their game tight. This will pass.

Yes voters are out of their minds. This contract could possibly last 7 years...that's about 25% of an entire career...and it sucks. Why the FK would anybody vote yes to this?

 

[Mamma]

Yes voters are out of their minds. This contract could possibly last 7 years...that's about 25% of an entire career...and it sucks. Why the FK would anybody vote yes to this?

The NC has their responses put together very well I heard. Not much for the naysayers to latch onto. I heard lots of talk in the hallways but nothing to back it up with the NC presenters.

 

[Old School 737]

Yes voters are out of their minds. This contract could possibly last 7 years...that's about 25% of an entire career...and it sucks. Why the FK would anybody vote yes to this?

Saw another crew .. Both said they were not happy but that it was ok and they will vote for it .. This group has no guts ..

This airline does not want its 2 big labor groups possible going to mediation at the same time .. Send it back and they will come back and say ya you called our bluff.. Here is more money to keep you happy cause scope sucks .. And your not getting it..

 

[Boxboy]

I hear a lot of "oh, I think this TA sucks but I'm voting for it because we won't get a contract for another 2 years or so; time value money blah blah blah....". Spineless, weak, and retarded. We deserve what's coming to us. Sad.

 

[Old School 737]

I hear a lot of "oh, I think this TA sucks but I'm voting for it because we won't get a contract for another 2 years or so; time value money blah blah blah....". Spineless, weak, and retarded. We deserve what's coming to us. Sad.

It's is the best time ever to get what we deserve and I feel like it gonna get pissed away .. Why was the company so quick to come back to the table .. The very next day .. And say let's make a deal .. After they rejected our offer before .. Cause they know its a good deal .. For them ... And we handed it 2 them .. I can't believe our Alpa guys think this is ok ...

 

[Boxboy]

It's is the best time ever to get what we deserve and I feel like it gonna get pissed away .. Why was the company so quick to come back to the table .. The very next day .. And say let's make a deal .. After they rejected our offer before .. Cause they know its a good deal .. For them ... And we handed it 2 them .. I can't believe our Alpa guys think this is ok ...

I just don't get it. In the history of this pilot group, we finally have the leverage to turn this around and our own own guys want to just roll over.
If you have a good product, would it not sell itself? The product presented to us is such huge turd, they are trying their damnest to sugar coat it but when poked with a stick, the true identity is revealed. Rotten to the core!

 

[Mamma]

This is third hand, but I was told the NC explained why they agreed to each section...with much detail and facts. My concerns on 401K, vacation pay, scheduling efficiencies and FO pay were not addressed (or remembered) by my source who went. I did not agree with their scope stand explanation which was based off future airframe number orders. But, since I didn't go and this is third hand, take it with prudence.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I hear a lot of "oh, I think this TA sucks but I'm voting for it because we won't get a contract for another 2 years or so; time value money blah blah blah....". Spineless, weak, and retarded. We deserve what's coming to us. Sad.

I feel your pain. You can get in line behind all US new "UAL" pilots and shove your head up your asss as well.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

With regard to the road shows any thing can be spun. What will stand up in court is what is written and agreed upon in the contract. If what is written in black and white is not what you want then don't vote for it!

 

[wscrj]

Voted...AGAINST.

 

[eskimopilot]

I'm not sure why this TA is a shock.
All you need to do is read new section 25.P.6.
(VSA)
Furlough: The provisions of this paragraph will be suspended while any pilot is on involuntary furlough.

This is the pilot group you belong to. The selfish screw over the guy/gal next to you for a buck type. Is it so bad that we have to put language in our contract to stop this behavior? Why yes it is. The only good news is it is a tacit admission that even the company thinks the behavior is disgusting. Wonder what this little gem cost us at the table. Everything has a price of course.
Will it pass? Of course it will. The sad part is some of our fellow Union brothers will possibly vote no because of the potential lost earnings during a furlough.
You know it's the truth.
Regards.

 

[SRMairlines]

Voted Against as well.

Our ALPA leadership will feed the ALK management pipeline for the next 5 years. How come we can't force ALPA leaders to sign a NO COMPETE clause like management does?

 

[imacdog]

I've always been a long time admirer of ALK. From an outsider perspective, I don't get it. ALK is one of the most profitable legacy's. You guys should be tops for 73 pay. Scope is an issue as well. Now is the best time to get this stuff.

Sounds similar to what occurred at NetJets. Two key union leaders, (one was the president), feathered their own beds by angling their way into management after they negotiated the last contract.

They did move into senior management but the contract they negotiated for the pilots was popular and if I remember right, passed in the high 70 percentage range.

If I were an Alaska pilot I'd be very, very concerned about the scope section of this agreement. Did the negotiators not learn from the other legacies when it comes to scope, or are they just too senior to care what happens to the bottom 30% of the pilot group when Skywest starts dangling 100-seaters at management meetings?

 

[imacdog]

I'm not sure why this TA is a shock.
All you need to do is read new section 25.P.6.
(VSA)
Furlough: The provisions of this paragraph will be suspended while any pilot is on involuntary furlough.

This is the pilot group you belong to. The selfish screw over the guy/gal next to you for a buck type. Is it so bad that we have to put language in our contract to stop this behavior? Why yes it is. The only good news is it is a tacit admission that even the company thinks the behavior is disgusting. Wonder what this little gem cost us at the table. Everything has a price of course.
Will it pass? Of course it will. The sad part is some of our fellow Union brothers will possibly vote no because of the potential lost earnings during a furlough.
You know it's the truth.
Regards.

I'm assuming this means voluntary open time flying or similar? Without this provision, the union may not be able to ask pilots not to pick up open time during a furlough without violating the RLA. So as strange as it sounds, it is good to have this in writing.

 

[eskimopilot]

I'm assuming this means voluntary open time flying or similar? Without this provision, the union may not be able to ask pilots not to pick up open time during a furlough without violating the RLA. So as strange as it sounds, it is good to have this in writing.

You are correct on VSA (paid at 150%). But you miss the point. The Union shouldn't have to ask pilots to not feed at the trough during a furlough That's basic humanity 101.
Because of the outlandish self serving mentality of some in our group our negotiators had to codify this. Believe me, nothing we negotiated that could be considered a plus came free.
Regards.

 

[Old School 737]

Can't they just do premium pay trips instead of vsa ...

 

[heywood jablome]

Guys,

I heard from a Capt. "in the know" that management's position on negotiating any scope protection for us was "a non-starter" from day one...no matter what.

Kind of makes you wonder why that is SO important to them? Hmmmmmm......sounds like a HUGE red flag to me.

No scope=no YES vote. It's really not that complicated.

 

[Old School 737]

Guys,

I heard from a Capt. "in the know" that management's position on negotiating any scope protection for us was "a non-starter" from day one...no matter what.

Kind of makes you wonder why that is SO important to them? Hmmmmmm......sounds like a HUGE red flag to me.

No scope=no YES vote. It's really not that complicated.

So if that's the case .... Worst we can do is send it back and they throw more money and 401k until we vote yes...

But I would rather have scope..!!!

 

[imacdog]

Sounds like they have big plans for Skywest in the future.

 

[Ski Bum]

Another "Against" vote.

Anyone who has ever operated in section 25 of our current book knows that what was "negotiated" and the "intent" doesn't mean anything unless it is written. And most of what is written is vague. The NC's explanations, if they are so great, should be written in the contract's language.

 

[msmb]

There is no such thing as a "non starter" .... They may not like or want it but that's why they call it negotiations!

 

[igneousy2]

Can't they just do premium pay trips instead of vsa ...

The difference between a premium trip and VSA is that a premium trip is posted for all to see/pick-up once the trip becomes open. The company has to post it and hold their breath that somebody is going to pick it up. A pilot "picking up VSA" basically puts himself on reserve on his day off for the company. IF a trip becomes availalbe and the company chooses to use the VSA pilot, then the trip is paid at 150%. If the pilot is not assigned a trip, the pilot is paid nothing. The VSA pilot must accept a trip assigned during a period that they voluteered for VSA.

VSA is so damaging to the staffing formula because the company can/does use VSA as a free reserve system. They can staff reserve to the bare bones because they KNOW that on any given day they are going to have a certain number of pilots signed up for VSA. So for every pilot they can count on a day to sign up for VSA, that is 3-4 less pilots the company needs to be on reserve.

You have to truly have no-life to want to volunteer for VSA. I commute, and even though I have days where I am in my base with too little time to go home but enough time too pick up a trip...I would NEVER EVER IMAGINE sitting RESERVE for the company FOR FREE. Premium pick-ups, sure. Nobody is on furlough, knock yourself out. VSA...REALLY...if you are going to volunteer, go volunteer at a soup-kitchen or an animal shelter.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

The difference between a premium trip and VSA is that a premium trip is posted for all to see/pick-up once the trip becomes open. The company has to post it and hold their breath that somebody is going to pick it up. A pilot "picking up VSA" basically puts himself on reserve on his day off for the company. IF a trip becomes availalbe and the company chooses to use the VSA pilot, then the trip is paid at 150%. If the pilot is not assigned a trip, the pilot is paid nothing. The VSA pilot must accept a trip assigned during a period that they voluteered for VSA.

VSA is so damaging to the staffing formula because the company can/does use VSA as a free reserve system. They can staff reserve to the bare bones because they KNOW that on any given day they are going to have a certain number of pilots signed up for VSA. So for every pilot they can count on a day to sign up for VSA, that is 3-4 less pilots the company needs to be on reserve.

You have to truly have no-life to want to volunteer for VSA. I commute, and even though I have days where I am in my base with too little time to go home but enough time too pick up a trip...I would NEVER EVER IMAGINE sitting RESERVE for the company FOR FREE. Premium pick-ups, sure. Nobody is on furlough, knock yourself out. VSA...REALLY...if you are going to volunteer, go volunteer at a soup-kitchen or an animal shelter.

Are you implying that the day someone has signed up for VSA, he is sitting reserve and must report for duty if called out?

 

[Mamma]

I tried VSA once when I saw FO Reserves were low. Since I never tried it I called in to see if I did it right and what my odds were. I was #35 on the list. Never tried that again.

 

[tico]

At least voting" I am against the ALA Contract 2013 Tentative Agreement" was simple this time....what were there, 112 of us last time

 

[Old School 737]

At least voting" I am against the ALA Contract 2013 Tentative Agreement" was simple this time....what were there, 112 of us last time

I think 199!! I am a proud member ! And and on this vote as well !!

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

non-starter... Hah!

From Heywood: I heard from a Capt. "in the know" that management's position on negotiating any scope protection for us was "a non-starter" from day one... no matter what.

If management is telling you your jobs are safe or that they're in it for the long haul or that there are not now - or will be in the future - plans to outsource or contract routes, then writing a scope clause won't cost 'em a dime & logically, becomes a non-issue to write. Remember, if it's worth saying, it's worth putting on paper!

However, if management refuses to address scope or remains silent on future plans...

A strong scope clause is the foundation of a contract. It sure ain't glamorous. In fact, it's downright boring. But without it, your whole contract is weak and at risk! Translated, that means your whole pilot group - including 20 year captains - are at risk!

 

[jonjuan]

Skywest just ordered another 100 E-175s today. They must know something about where they expect to put them.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...0617?feedType=RSS&feedName=marketsNews&rpc=43

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Skywest just ordered another 100 E-175s today. They must know something about where they expect to put them.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...0617?feedType=RSS&feedName=marketsNews&rpc=43

I'm not saying none of those will have Eskimos on their tails, but who's to say they won't fly for the 3 big legacies? How old are their oldest CRJ-700s? Maybe some are replacement aircraft too.

 

[rtmcfi]

Between firm orders and options, SkyWest inc now has 600 new 75+ seat airplanes on the way. The Alaska pilots will get what they deserve from this contract vote. Don't get all butt-hurt when the SkyWest airplanes take a whole bunch of flying you currently do. The SkyWest pilots have no say in this. The Alaska pilots do. See you in line at Ivars!