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Alaska contract

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Old School 737 said:
Anybody else having a hard time getting it to down load into iBook or good reader ... Is it 2 big ? The new ALPA server is asking for creds? I already put them in before? And the password doesn't work now ?. ALPA dam you!
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Go to the ALPA MEC site for current log in info.
 
Singlecoil said:
So I'm a little baffled by the argument that our pay should be equivalent to 737 pay at American or Delta, or United. When a pilot retires at those airlines, that triggers how many training events? 6? 8? 10? When a pilot at Alaska retires, that triggers a brief upgrade training and a new hire training. What is the cost savings to Alaska for having a single fleet type with regards to pilot training? It is huge. Millions of dollars.
Is there any cost associated with having a single fleet type and who bears it? Let's see. A Delta or United or American pilot can choose to bid down to the lowly 737 and enjoy super seniority, but that pilot pays a price in pay. He or she trades pay for seniority.
At Alaska or Southwest, pilots don't have that option. You are stuck on that airframe and at that pay rate and the company reaps all the benefits of having a single fleet type.
For that reason, airlines with a single fleet type should expect to pay, and their pilots should demand, the highest pay in the industry for that equipment.
Delta management should be able to look at their pilots and say, "Well, you're not going to get Alaska pay on the 737 because that's the only airplane they have and their training costs are a fraction of ours."
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Well said !!!
 
flythere said:
I've read that scope language at least 8 or 10 times now. Can anyone tell me what scope protection that verbiage provides?
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Essentially same as before except we now have language for merger/acquisition. So basically, we have zero Scope.
 
flythere said:
I've read that scope language at least 8 or 10 times now. Can anyone tell me what scope protection that verbiage provides?
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Section 1.F is the only thing I can see that would resemble an improvement to language protecting our flying. Unfortunately it amounts to a fart in the wind as far as real protection goes. What does it matter if the MEC Chair or his Designee can have the opportunity to review codes share CPA etc. There is nothing the MEC can do if they don't like what they see. What a joke. All of our "improvements" are also improvements for the company. This is cost neutral at best, and will ultimately be concessionary when our flying gets farmed out. If any FO votes for this they are seriously misguided, gullible, or just plain stupid. Thankfully, I've flown with a few Captains already who have said, not just no, but HELL NO!
 
What happened to the first cornerstone, Job protection and scope? From what I'm reading, this agreement does absolutely nothing to prevent AAG from contracting with SkyWest or any other CPA partner to operate 90 to 120 seat RJ's on our behalf. The language spelled out gives us no protection at all, none, zip noda!!!

What he said above^^, I don't know how any FO in his/her right mind can vote yes! And shame on our negotiating team for not standing up for what the members wanted. Our best course of action is a resounding NO vote to send a clear message that this is not acceptable. It's our future at stake.

What about the provision in the training section to allow the geezers to come back and haunt us after they retire and take instructor jobs and seat subs from us?? Those old Ba$tard$ just won't go away!!!

They've had their cake, they ate it all and now the greedy geezers want to push us down and take our cake!!! They can go straight to hell!!!!!!
 
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Ocity said:
To be fair, KK can't afford to retire, when your family owns and operates one of the largest hospital groups in the World, you do need to keep picking up vsa just to cover the monthly bills.
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LOL, I heard he purchased a nice Porsche with all the vsa? Was showing pictures to FO's he flew with!
 
So if we have balls .. And turn it down .. I don't think I have much faith in the NC or the MEC at this point ... WTF over

I would love to see the old Wilson poles and some new ones!!
 
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I'm not happy of the flying during vacation. I imagine it was a productivity sell-out for the pay rates as was Reserves picking days up. If you incentivize making money while on vacation it becomes anything but that. How relaxed would you be if you, as a Capt, were "giving" up almost $800 a day while on vacation? This is terrible. We need our time away and vacation. It was not meant to be traded or sold away. Complete BS. Plus, it's going to stagnate the place. Do the math.
 
Mamma said:
I'm not happy of the flying during vacation. I imagine it was a productivity sell-out for the pay rates as was Reserves picking days up. If you incentivize making money while on vacation it becomes anything but that. How relaxed would you be if you, as a Capt, were "giving" up almost $800 a day while on vacation? This is terrible. We need our time away and vacation. It was not meant to be traded or sold away. Complete BS. Plus, it's going to stagnate the place. Do the math.
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I think the theory is your sooo Jr. all you can get for vacation is Feb days ... You don't ski .. Kids are in school, and the wife is looking at you like why are you here again .. And with all the slow upgrades your not making a ton of money as a FO so why not pick up a 4 day... Flying on vacation is the least of my concerns on this contract...plus I heard from a union guy it was one of the most requested items in the polling .. Is it really possible that the rest of the contract is what we as a pilot group said we wanted ??...???
 
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MEC says scope was not as big a deal and merger protection was a top priority per the surveys. If that is in fact the case then I'm not surprised this was the outcome.

However if the MEC was made aware of an impending merger then this should also not surprise anyone. The question is what the big picture is for AAG. Horizon is going to ANC, we are rebranding the company and our growth is very minimal if any at all.

My suspicion is we allow Skywest to expand the CPA with 100 seat jets or whatever to cover the gap between the Q400 and the 800's. This either screws us as a whole at Alaska or its used as a back door way to get larger RJ's into a legacy carrier that doesn't allow them already.

If you read Section 1 and LOA 13-01 it doesn't cover size or number of RJ's that AAG can bring in. I'm not happy about the money being offered but this lack of scope leaves the door open for the company to outsource whatever they want. Unless you are in the top 25% here this is not good. History is going to repeat itself here I'm afraid. Just ask any of the pilots at any of the legacy airlines what their thoughts are on scope and I bet its the same. We are signing our careers away with this lack of protection.
 
I've got a lot of good friends at Alaska and I really hope it works out ie. pay that you're happy with and security/protection.
 
AKMD80GUY said:
If you read Section 1 and LOA 13-01 it doesn't cover size or number of RJ's that AAG can bring in. I'm not happy about the money being offered but this lack of scope leaves the door open for the company to outsource whatever they want. Unless you are in the top 25% here this is not good. History is going to repeat itself here I'm afraid. Just ask any of the pilots at any of the legacy airlines what their thoughts are on scope and I bet its the same. We are signing our careers away with this lack of protection.
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Well Said! It will happen as fast as the furloughs were done after the last contract was signed.
The Preamble actually reads like it was cut and pasted from something the company wrote. After reading that I trust the union .01% more than the company. This is a good deal for the very old and the mec.
 
I feel like we're playing a slow game of rock-paper-scissors, except we have to go first.

"Oh, paper, huh? Then we pick scissors."

We shouldn't have to choose between just scope or pay or merger.
 
Bankrupt American and the APA negotiated the following:

TOS narrow body captain rates 2018 $232.71

TOS narrow body FO rates 2018 $158.24

Bear in mind they are planning on negotiating higher rates with a second JCBA in two years...IOW, this is the MINIMUM they can plan on getting paid.

AMERICAN AIRLINES IS CURRENTLY BANKRUPT!!!!!!

Anybody else ready to throw ALPAs worthless ass off this property?

Two words...card drive.
 
Ocity said:
Bankrupt American and the APA negotiated the following:

TOS narrow body captain rates 2018 $232.71

TOS narrow body FO rates 2018 $158.24

Bear in mind they are planning on negotiating higher rates with a second JCBA in two years...IOW, this is the MINIMUM they can plan on getting paid.

AMERICAN AIRLINES IS CURRENTLY BANKRUPT!!!!!!

Anybody else ready to throw ALPAs worthless ass off this property?

Two words...card drive.
Click to expand...

Two more words: SCOPE PROTECTION :cool:

Good luck!
 
Old School 737 said:
Had a few more days and I haven't talked to a single person that likes this .. Anybody find somebody that says they do ?
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Yep. The old guys. They won't defend their position though. And just watch the people that are real quiet in the crew room when you are talking about it. There are a lot of them. And of course all the P2P guys that are incapable of a thought that the mec didn't tell them to think. Seriously how can the mec convince these idiot p2p fo's that they should sell this pos that is such a horrible deal for themselves. Beyond me.
 
I talked with a senior CPT yesterday and before I could say anything he said " I seriously hope your voting NO for this contract." Unfortunately I bet he is one of the very few senior guys who gives a crap about the rest. All I said to him was that I appreciated him voting no and asked that he at least try to educate his other friends as to why we can do better and the importance of doing so. Our only shot is to make the junior cpt's and nearly all fo's realize this is our time to stand up and fight for what we deserve. I guarantee there is more on the table available to us, we just need to stop being pushovers and go get it. Instead of being 1 of 199 I would love to be 1 of 999...or more!!!
 
alaskaplt said:
Yep. The old guys. They won't defend their position though. And just watch the people that are real quiet in the crew room when you are talking about it. There are a lot of them. And of course all the P2P guys that are incapable of a thought that the mec didn't tell them to think. Seriously how can the mec convince these idiot p2p fo's that they should sell this pos that is such a horrible deal for themselves. Beyond me.
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Old dudes with only 1-3 years could care less ...Well I just hope that all the FO's and the Jr.. Cpt can get enough no votes ..

You would think that the pay would make them vote no even if they like or don't care about the rest of the deal. Getting less than a carrier currently bankrupt is so not right on so many levels.
 
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tattoo13 said:
I talked with a senior CPT yesterday and before I could say anything he said " I seriously hope your voting NO for this contract." Unfortunately I bet he is one of the very few senior guys who gives a crap about the rest. All I said to him was that I appreciated him voting no and asked that he at least try to educate his other friends as to why we can do better and the importance of doing so. Our only shot is to make the junior cpt's and nearly all fo's realize this is our time to stand up and fight for what we deserve. I guarantee there is more on the table available to us, we just need to stop being pushovers and go get it. Instead of being 1 of 199 I would love to be 1 of 999...or more!!!
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Well said!!! The company has lots more they can put on the table!!!
 
Pulled this off another thread. Open your eyes people. Are a FEW extra dollars worth your future???

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries plans second MRJ assembly line

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) is studying the possibility of building a new assembly facility near Japan's Nagoya airport to ramp up the planned production rate of its Mitsubishi MRJ regional jet.

"MHI is currently studying whether it would be possible to secure a plant site adjoining Nagoya airport, anticipating the production volume increase of the MRJ," says a spokesman.

"MHI would conduct final assembly of the MRJ there if the site is secured."

He adds that it is still unclear when, should the site be secured, construction will begin and how long it will last.

MHI already has a plant beside Nagoya airport where it has said it will assemble the MRJ70 and MRJ90 aircraft.

"Initially, MHI will start production of MRJ at a rate of one or two per month, which will be increased later," says the spokesman.

MHI is responsible for manufacturing major parts of the MRJ, including the fuselage, wings and tails, and will take charge of the aircraft's final assembly.

Mitsubishi Aircraft told Flightglobal last December that it was studying how to ramp up the planned production rate of its regional jet to meet the delivery demands of customers. It calculates that it needs to produce 10 aircraft monthly in order to meet demands.

If a second line proves necessary, however, it will only be set up after the aircraft receives type certification scheduled for the third quarter of 2015, it added.

The MRJ programme received a major boost last December when US-based SkyWest Airlines firmed an agreement for 100 MRJ90s, and an additional 100 of the aircraft type. The deal takes Mitsubishi's backlog to 170 firm orders with 160 options.

The MRJ is scheduled to perform its first flight in the third quarter of 2013, with deliveries to follow in 2015.
 

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