Alaska contract

[fam62c]

So if the TA gets rejected what do you figure will happen next and when?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

RES guys can pick up flying on days off.

YOU DONT WANT THAT!!!

It means LESS pilots.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

AK pilots have the leverage now...with a merger on the horizon, mgt NEEDS this contract done. the suitors on the sidelines are just waiting for the dust to settle. it is your opportunity to extract the most you can before the current mgt team sails off into early retirement with millions in merger compensation. JMO

+1

They (ALPA, Company) pulled this BS "Hurry Hurry" at Delta exactly one year ago when the lights came up and everybody figured out who they were going home with after the party.

YOU GUYS HAVE LEVERAGE....something us Delta Pilots left behind.....and don't buy the BS from the talking heads that "You'll never see the end of this contract...."

 

[becket]

So if the TA gets rejected what do you figure will happen next and when?

Depends how how badly it was rejected. This pos will pass however. Just to be clear, if this gets ratified, the pilots are approving of the idea that it will be perfectly acceptable to them that in FIVE YEARS they will be getting paid LESS than Southwest paid TEN YEARS AGO.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

scope

Your pay rates and work rules won't mean anything if there's no work to do. Contracting/Farming out work - to the lowest bidder - has become an accepted mangerial action, thus making scope the single most important section of any pilot contract. Without an extensive Scope section, mgmt decides who gets to do your work. For your sake, I hope you're reading the regionals & LCC sections of this site to remind yourselves what mgmt can and will do.

One last thing for every pilot group... If ever there was a time to stand fast on improving contract language, it's now!

 

[Mamma]

YOU DONT WANT THAT!!!

It means LESS pilots.

Reserves flying on days off is with Scheduling approval which means next to never. At most they would get to pick up a turn or a 2 day on their last day of reserve and they could do it once a month. Plus, whatever is left in Open Time, after the w************************* clean it out, usually sucks and most self-respecting pilots would not volunteer to pick that crap up.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Reserves flying on days off is with Scheduling approval which means next to never. At most they would get to pick up a turn or a 2 day on their last day of reserve and they could do it once a month. Plus, whatever is left in Open Time, after the w************************* clean it out, usually sucks and most self-respecting pilots would not volunteer to pick that crap up.

Don't you get what is happening? They are trying to buy the reserve guys vote. They think "Hey we are fat and I need cash so if I toss my name in, I can pad my wallet." It is never going to happen. The other swing of the pendulum is this steals premium flying (OT) or whatever you call it from senior pilots.

We have had that for a few months here and not one day has been offered up.

 

[kingair1]

The pay and scope language is very disappointing. No vote for sure.

 

[SRMairlines]

Your pay rates and work rules won't mean anything if there's no work to do. Contracting/Farming out work - to the lowest bidder - has become an accepted mangerial action, thus making scope the single most important section of any pilot contract. Without an extensive Scope section, mgmt decides who gets to do your work. For your sake, I hope you're reading the regionals & LCC sections of this site to remind yourselves what mgmt can and will do.

One last thing for every pilot group... If ever there was a time to stand fast on improving contract language, it's now!

^^^ Smart Pilot

 

[fam62c]

The pay and scope language is very disappointing. No vote for sure.

So we know the 10 AK pilots on here say they are going to vote no

 

[Old School 737]

So we know the 10 AK pilots on here say they are going to vote no

It will all be no votes on here .. I would be shocked if somebody said they were going to vote for it on here ...

 

[Mamma]

Don't you get what is happening? They are trying to buy the reserve guys vote. They think "Hey we are fat and I need cash so if I toss my name in, I can pad my wallet." It is never going to happen. The other swing of the pendulum is this steals premium flying (OT) or whatever you call it from senior pilots.

We have had that for a few months here and not one day has been offered up.

I was on reserve forever at Alaska and this would not have influenced my vote one iota. We are not big Delta. Very few if any trips in Open time to pick from and the ones that are suck. VSA guys or guys looking to pad their schedule would still get first pick leaving the trash to pick up at Scheduling's whim. Scheduling is known to throw trips to a Reserve pilot over 12 hours in advance to prevent someone from picking it up....to save money. If they have eligible reserves who are being paid to sit reserve they would prefer to use them vs letting someone pick it up. This is a feature they would use only when they are in a pinch. If a reserve pilot is stupid enough to base their vote on this then they are an idiot.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

YOU DONT WANT THAT!!!

It means LESS pilots.

There's a few other nuggets that will ensure that. Pilots would be able to fly on vacation. There are even more ways for pilots to volunteer to fly extra for premium.

I'm guessing this is how they will finance the "raise."

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

Cost neutral

 

[Old School 737]

New bid results are out .. JR. Cpt is 12 years

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

I wonder why "Job security and business development are both found in fostering such things as Code Share and Capacity Purchase agreements which are designed to maintain and develop the mainline operation, enhance the company's overall market presence: opening opportunity to expand the network, all with the goal of enhancing customer convenience and service" was added to the preamble......

 

[CesnaCaptn]

I wonder why "Job security and business development are both found in fostering such things as Code Share and Capacity Purchase agreements which are designed to maintain and develop the mainline operation, enhance the company's overall market presence: opening opportunity to expand the network, all with the goal of enhancing customer convenience and service" was added to the preamble......

Isn't that the same language used with UA and DL pilots right before their networks were overrun with RJ's?

 

[AK737FO]

No it wasn't. I don't remember anyone selling a 10.5% increase in the B plan as a replacement for the 1.9% A plan. Even the company's pamphlet that was put together for each individual pilot, with certain assumptions for growth and potential retirement payout, had the 13.5% contribution paying less in retirement. The sales pitch was, you don't have to risk the company going BK or merging and losing or freezing your pension. You get to take all of the risk, which shouldn't be a problem for most. We all know pilots make good money managers.

I would much rather have some control of my retirement rather than have it all tied up in a pension, hoping and praying that it stays intact until I die. You do realize that Alaska Airlines pilot pension is the only one that has not been defaulted on via BK? You like those odds?
When professionally analyzed, my advisor said that our company / negotiators were amazingly accurate. The difference for me (using some general return assumptions) on the rebalance vs the pension was withing a couple of hundred bucks after a 30 year career.
So yes, you take the risk, but is it any more risky than believing the pension will survive?

 

[AK737FO]

It will all be no votes on here .. I would be shocked if somebody said they were going to vote for it on here ...

What I've seen so far, looks good to me. Unless the road shows change my mind, I will vote yes.

In the last week, I've talked to JH and CH. Two guys who were were both on the LEC / MEC within the last year and are now both managment. I asked them both the same question - As an MEC officer and as a CP, do you like this TA. Both said yes. Both said there were going to be things that guys don't like (pay numbers) but that when taken as a whole package, it makes us very close to being the top if not the top paid 737 drivers in the USA.

Now boys and girls, I can hear the howling in the background already - "but their management, of course they are going to say that". But these two men were also the men WE elected and that WE choose to represent us in ALPA. So what does that say about us? We trusted them 6 months ago, but not today? JH and CH are honorable men. I / We trusted them 6 months ago when they were on the MEC and I / We should trust them today when they are our chiefs. If they say it's as good as it's going to get, well I believe them.

I vote yes (unless the road shows change my mind).

 

[AK737FO]

It will all be no votes on here .. I would be shocked if somebody said they were going to vote for it on here ...

What I've seen so far, looks good to me. Unless the road shows change my mind, I will vote yes.

In the last week, I've talked to JH and CH. Two guys who were were both on the LEC / MEC within the last year and are now both managment. I asked them both the same question - As an MEC officer and as a CP, do you like this TA. Both said yes. Both said there were going to be things that guys don't like (pay numbers) but that when taken as a whole package, it makes us very close to being the top if not the top paid 737 drivers in the USA.

Now boys and girls, I can hear the howling in the background already - "but their management, of course they are going to say that". But these two men were also the men WE elected and that WE choose to represent us in ALPA. So what does that say about us? We trusted them 6 months ago, but not today? JH and CH are honorable men. I / We trusted them 6 months ago when they were on the MEC and I / We should trust them today when they are our chiefs. If they say it's as good as it's going to get, well I believe them.

I vote yes (unless the road shows change my mind).