AirTran Pilots, Informational Picketing!!

[Jonny Sacko]

Not just "Heh heh",

it's "Heh heh, are you going to eat those, Heh heh"

 

[Clyde Frog]

deleted...

 

[75M]

Since this thing got bumped up I thought I would pass along what I've heard. MS was in the crew room today and he said that only 30 (or so) pilots signed up for informational picketing.

Unfortunately, that doesn't go a long way to give the NPA confidence that we'll back them up if they needed to make a move.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Since this thing got bumped up I thought I would pass along what I've heard. MS was in the crew room today and he said that only 30 (or so) pilots signed up for informational picketing.

Unfortunately, that doesn't go a long way to give the NPA confidence that we'll back them up if they needed to make a move.

You trust MS? HA!

 

[SkiFishFly]

You trust MS? HA!

I don't...

Even if what he said was true - hardly a valid excuse for accepting and then heartily endorsing that pos TA.

 

[Lear70]

There were less than 100 who signed up for informational picketing BEFORE the T.A. came out.

That number is over 100 last I heard, and that's without even an "official" request for it.

Once they pick out a place, date, and time, and put out an official request for it, the reasoning behind it, and give people an adequate chance to respond, I believe those numbers will grow exponentially.

You'd think our NPA guys who'd been up to the ALPA Leadership training sessions in Herndon would have a better sense of how to motivate our pilot group...

 

[PCL_128]

You'd think our NPA guys who'd been up to the ALPA Leadership training sessions in Herndon would have a better sense of how to motivate our pilot group...

Well, in their defense, the ALPA Leadership Conference isn't exactly what it sounds like. There isn't actually any "leadership training." The conference actually focuses on ALPA's structure, the grievance system, the legal department, etc... Actual discussions of how to properly motivate and lead pilots aren't part of the training. You only achieve those skills through experience as a rep over time. This lacking in the Leadership Conference is something that many of us have brought up, but the problem is one of time and money. There's just not enough time and money to focus on that when the basics need to be covered also. Maybe when dues revenue picks up in the next few years...

Also, I'm not sure that any of the NPA reps have been to any ALPA Leadership Conferences. These conferences are usually limited to actual ALPA reps. NPA reps have been invited to other ALPA events, however.

 

[Lear70]

I thought it was one of the things we were paying for when our NPA guys went up to Herndon for "training"...

Maybe it was just the negotiating courses.

 

[Ty Webb]

I thought it was one of the things we were paying for when our NPA guys went up to Herndon for "training"...

Maybe it was just the negotiating courses.

Well, we've seen the benefit of that course, or, at least, Allen's interpretation of it. Maybe it's time for a Teamster . . . . Oops, was I thinking out loud again?





.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well, we've seen the benefit of that course, or, at least, Allen's interpretation of it. Maybe it's time for a Teamster . . . . Oops, was I thinking out loud again?





.

Ty-

You got allot on your plate. From this TA, to trying to fit a Guild into your reality to wondering if the status quo is fine or teamsters is the way to go....

Rezfully Yours....

 

[j41driver]

I've never been through this informational picketing thing before. I would think that being on the seniority list and paying dues would be considered "on the list" for picketing. How is this normally handled?

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty-

You got allot on your plate. From this TA, to trying to fit a Guild into your reality to wondering if the status quo is fine or teamsters is the way to go....

Rezfully Yours....

Not to mention running a successful business and raising a couple of kids, while commuting. Hmmmm, wonder why I won't be running for an unpaid BoD slot?

But I AM available for informational picketing.

.

 

[Lear70]

I've never been through this informational picketing thing before. I would think that being on the seniority list and paying dues would be considered "on the list" for picketing. How is this normally handled?

No, this is a volunteer duty, but they haven't officially rolled out an email designed ONLY to get picketing volunteers, although they've been gearing up in that direction.

To get on the list, contact Steve Ujvari, Strategic Preparedness Committee (SPC), @ [email protected]

Thanks to all those who are joining the effort!

 

[PCL_128]

Well, we've seen the benefit of that course, or, at least, Allen's interpretation of it.

Emphasis on "Allen's interpretation of it." Don't blame ALPA's training for AP's mistakes.

 

[j41driver]

No, this is a volunteer duty, but they haven't officially rolled out an email designed ONLY to get picketing volunteers, although they've been gearing up in that direction.

To get on the list, contact Steve Ujvari, Strategic Preparedness Committee (SPC), @ [email protected]

Thanks to all those who are joining the effort!

I've already emailed Steve and am on the list. Has anyone asked MS why he's complaining about "low turnout" for picketing when they haven't even officially asked anyone to do it yet? That makes about as much sense as the TA does.

 

[mnboyev]

They (SPC) chair did ask....he asked the P2P folks a couple months back to drum up support for 'possible' picketing... died on the vine..

ie....no support.. hopefully that's changed....

 

[Lear70]

They (SPC) chair did ask....he asked the P2P folks a couple months back to drum up support for 'possible' picketing... died on the vine..

ie....no support.. hopefully that's changed....

Yes, they did email the P2P guys. Which is completely ineffective.

The P2P pilots are not supposed to go out and drum up support, that's the responsibility of the elected leadership. This isn't the military. The general doesn't pass on directives to the Captains, then the Captains the Sergeants, then the Sergeants make it happen with the "grunts", which is basically how they tried to hand it down.

The P2P group is designed to be a group of pilots who stay close to union activities, stay informed as a general rule, and wear their P2P pins so that other pilots can identify them in the crew room and on the line to answer questions. They're also designed to provide feedback to the union on what's happening on the line, what guys are saying, etc.

In short, they're for information, not for action. To rely on them for that kind of activity was either extremely inane or outright ignorant of how P2P's can reasonably be expected to "drum up support".

Picketing is a very personal activity. It requires pilots to rally in support, take their personal time away from families, and march (often publicly and on national news) in protest of (usually) a management activity that threatens them, all in the cause of protecting/furthering their own careers and the careers of their fellow aviators.

You can't ask people to do that 2nd hand; a request like that should come directly from the NPA President and BoD in an email intended SOLELY for that purpose, it should contain a place, date, and time, and the ultimate reason and goal for the activity.

That's what union LEADERSHIP is about. Motivate your group by explaining the reason for the activity, stating your goals, then asking for their help to protect THEIR OWN careers. Make it personal, give them ownership of the cause, then provide a healthy outlet for them to support it.

This isn't rocket science; it's simply different from leadership roles that most people have experienced, either in the military or the corporate world where subordinates are required to follow direction. Motivating people who aren't "required" to follow you is an art, not a right of office.

 

[FLB717]

I have not been very vocal on this site for a while now, because I believe that the give and take of discussion even outright rebellion is a protected form of speech. But Lear to say that the P2P program is not to do more than be ears of the BoD is not only off base but is completely counter to the role of their training and use as members. How do I know this, I started the program and did the training for most all of the first classes. Then a very capable and excellent leader took the position over. He was replaced by another dedicated and outstanding Chair. And again you are wrong in that information and activities are not to be handed down, an example of this is why we have things called Committees, in fact you even serve on one now. And how do they get their orders, they don’t make them up all alone do they?
P2P’s are for action both verbally and physically to walk the halls and be present for their fellow Pilots. What was the role they were asked to accomplish? To engage other Pilots and pass along the number and/or email of the SPC chair, to back up the SPC information that was going out in the Eweekly, Quarterly and word of mouth. I can tell you that also, that myself, the SPC chair and another motivated individual called multiple hundreds of our pilot group (nearly all that contact information was accurate for) telling them about the service we needed and why, and if they didn’t answer we left NPA, and personal phone numbers. I received a hand full of calls back to volunteer.
Should an email be sent, yes and I believe many were in the E-Weekly etc. As to picking a place and time I guess you have never picketed before or you would have understood that training is required to preform it properly and legally. And just showing up doesn’t work when you need people on a dedicated list that have been trained said I will be there. Kind of like a RSVP, when you through the party it would be nice to know people will show up.
You are right, motivating people is an art, but I guess I just don’t understand how people are not motivated to save their jobs, guess they are busy doing emails on the web. But I believe mostly they don’t want to put in the time for a position or job that they don’t see immediate compensation for. But thats just my point of view having done the things you tell me are wrong.

 

[AFcitrus]

I have not been very vocal on this site for a while now, because I believe that the give and take of discussion even outright rebellion is a protected form of speech. But Lear to say that the P2P program is not to do more than be ears of the BoD is not only off base but is completely counter to the role of their training and use as members. How do I know this, I started the program and did the training for most all of the first classes. Then a very capable and excellent leader took the position over. He was replaced by another dedicated and outstanding Chair. And again you are wrong in that information and activities are not to be handed down, an example of this is why we have things called Committees, in fact you even serve on one now. And how do they get their orders, they don’t make them up all alone do they?
P2P’s are for action both verbally and physically to walk the halls and be present for their fellow Pilots. What was the role they were asked to accomplish? To engage other Pilots and pass along the number and/or email of the SPC chair, to back up the SPC information that was going out in the Eweekly, Quarterly and word of mouth. I can tell you that also, that myself, the SPC chair and another motivated individual called multiple hundreds of our pilot group (nearly all that contact information was accurate for) telling them about the service we needed and why, and if they didn’t answer we left NPA, and personal phone numbers. I received a hand full of calls back to volunteer.
Should an email be sent, yes and I believe many were in the E-Weekly etc. As to picking a place and time I guess you have never picketed before or you would have understood that training is required to preform it properly and legally. And just showing up doesn’t work when you need people on a dedicated list that have been trained said I will be there. Kind of like a RSVP, when you through the party it would be nice to know people will show up.
You are right, motivating people is an art, but I guess I just don’t understand how people are not motivated to save their jobs, guess they are busy doing emails on the web. But I believe mostly they don’t want to put in the time for a position or job that they don’t see immediate compensation for. But thats just my point of view having done the things you tell me are wrong.

Neither I nor anyone I know have received the calls you speak of. Our contact information is acurate as I have received other correspondence from the NPA.

I'm not saying you didn't call. I'm just saying many people who would have stepped up haven't been contacted specifically about an event.

 

[FLB717]

AFCitrus, calls were made, many many calls. If we had not been flying the 717 for so long our fingers could not have taken the button pushing to dial. I'm sorry that 3 of us couldn't reach all 1500+ pilots, but I guess we had only so many days off, but we did try. We even tried to get volunteers to make calls, the outcome was ...... However we did get enough people to say yes that the backbone is in place.

Well if they or you have not been contact and they or you stepped, up good! I am glad to see it. Thank you to those who have.

And yes Lear70 is a guy who has put his butt where his mouth is (on the line, sorry Ty, could't let you get in that easy) and I respect that very much.