AirTran Pilots, Informational Picketing!!

[j41driver]

I've never been through this informational picketing thing before. I would think that being on the seniority list and paying dues would be considered "on the list" for picketing. How is this normally handled?

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty-

You got allot on your plate. From this TA, to trying to fit a Guild into your reality to wondering if the status quo is fine or teamsters is the way to go....

Rezfully Yours....

Not to mention running a successful business and raising a couple of kids, while commuting. Hmmmm, wonder why I won't be running for an unpaid BoD slot?

But I AM available for informational picketing.

.

 

[Lear70]

I've never been through this informational picketing thing before. I would think that being on the seniority list and paying dues would be considered "on the list" for picketing. How is this normally handled?

No, this is a volunteer duty, but they haven't officially rolled out an email designed ONLY to get picketing volunteers, although they've been gearing up in that direction.

To get on the list, contact Steve Ujvari, Strategic Preparedness Committee (SPC), @ [email protected]

Thanks to all those who are joining the effort!

 

[PCL_128]

Well, we've seen the benefit of that course, or, at least, Allen's interpretation of it.

Emphasis on "Allen's interpretation of it." Don't blame ALPA's training for AP's mistakes.

 

[j41driver]

No, this is a volunteer duty, but they haven't officially rolled out an email designed ONLY to get picketing volunteers, although they've been gearing up in that direction.

To get on the list, contact Steve Ujvari, Strategic Preparedness Committee (SPC), @ [email protected]

Thanks to all those who are joining the effort!

I've already emailed Steve and am on the list. Has anyone asked MS why he's complaining about "low turnout" for picketing when they haven't even officially asked anyone to do it yet? That makes about as much sense as the TA does.

 

[mnboyev]

They (SPC) chair did ask....he asked the P2P folks a couple months back to drum up support for 'possible' picketing... died on the vine..

ie....no support.. hopefully that's changed....

 

[Lear70]

They (SPC) chair did ask....he asked the P2P folks a couple months back to drum up support for 'possible' picketing... died on the vine..

ie....no support.. hopefully that's changed....

Yes, they did email the P2P guys. Which is completely ineffective.

The P2P pilots are not supposed to go out and drum up support, that's the responsibility of the elected leadership. This isn't the military. The general doesn't pass on directives to the Captains, then the Captains the Sergeants, then the Sergeants make it happen with the "grunts", which is basically how they tried to hand it down.

The P2P group is designed to be a group of pilots who stay close to union activities, stay informed as a general rule, and wear their P2P pins so that other pilots can identify them in the crew room and on the line to answer questions. They're also designed to provide feedback to the union on what's happening on the line, what guys are saying, etc.

In short, they're for information, not for action. To rely on them for that kind of activity was either extremely inane or outright ignorant of how P2P's can reasonably be expected to "drum up support".

Picketing is a very personal activity. It requires pilots to rally in support, take their personal time away from families, and march (often publicly and on national news) in protest of (usually) a management activity that threatens them, all in the cause of protecting/furthering their own careers and the careers of their fellow aviators.

You can't ask people to do that 2nd hand; a request like that should come directly from the NPA President and BoD in an email intended SOLELY for that purpose, it should contain a place, date, and time, and the ultimate reason and goal for the activity.

That's what union LEADERSHIP is about. Motivate your group by explaining the reason for the activity, stating your goals, then asking for their help to protect THEIR OWN careers. Make it personal, give them ownership of the cause, then provide a healthy outlet for them to support it.

This isn't rocket science; it's simply different from leadership roles that most people have experienced, either in the military or the corporate world where subordinates are required to follow direction. Motivating people who aren't "required" to follow you is an art, not a right of office.

 

[FLB717]

I have not been very vocal on this site for a while now, because I believe that the give and take of discussion even outright rebellion is a protected form of speech. But Lear to say that the P2P program is not to do more than be ears of the BoD is not only off base but is completely counter to the role of their training and use as members. How do I know this, I started the program and did the training for most all of the first classes. Then a very capable and excellent leader took the position over. He was replaced by another dedicated and outstanding Chair. And again you are wrong in that information and activities are not to be handed down, an example of this is why we have things called Committees, in fact you even serve on one now. And how do they get their orders, they don’t make them up all alone do they?
P2P’s are for action both verbally and physically to walk the halls and be present for their fellow Pilots. What was the role they were asked to accomplish? To engage other Pilots and pass along the number and/or email of the SPC chair, to back up the SPC information that was going out in the Eweekly, Quarterly and word of mouth. I can tell you that also, that myself, the SPC chair and another motivated individual called multiple hundreds of our pilot group (nearly all that contact information was accurate for) telling them about the service we needed and why, and if they didn’t answer we left NPA, and personal phone numbers. I received a hand full of calls back to volunteer.
Should an email be sent, yes and I believe many were in the E-Weekly etc. As to picking a place and time I guess you have never picketed before or you would have understood that training is required to preform it properly and legally. And just showing up doesn’t work when you need people on a dedicated list that have been trained said I will be there. Kind of like a RSVP, when you through the party it would be nice to know people will show up.
You are right, motivating people is an art, but I guess I just don’t understand how people are not motivated to save their jobs, guess they are busy doing emails on the web. But I believe mostly they don’t want to put in the time for a position or job that they don’t see immediate compensation for. But thats just my point of view having done the things you tell me are wrong.

 

[AFcitrus]

I have not been very vocal on this site for a while now, because I believe that the give and take of discussion even outright rebellion is a protected form of speech. But Lear to say that the P2P program is not to do more than be ears of the BoD is not only off base but is completely counter to the role of their training and use as members. How do I know this, I started the program and did the training for most all of the first classes. Then a very capable and excellent leader took the position over. He was replaced by another dedicated and outstanding Chair. And again you are wrong in that information and activities are not to be handed down, an example of this is why we have things called Committees, in fact you even serve on one now. And how do they get their orders, they don’t make them up all alone do they?
P2P’s are for action both verbally and physically to walk the halls and be present for their fellow Pilots. What was the role they were asked to accomplish? To engage other Pilots and pass along the number and/or email of the SPC chair, to back up the SPC information that was going out in the Eweekly, Quarterly and word of mouth. I can tell you that also, that myself, the SPC chair and another motivated individual called multiple hundreds of our pilot group (nearly all that contact information was accurate for) telling them about the service we needed and why, and if they didn’t answer we left NPA, and personal phone numbers. I received a hand full of calls back to volunteer.
Should an email be sent, yes and I believe many were in the E-Weekly etc. As to picking a place and time I guess you have never picketed before or you would have understood that training is required to preform it properly and legally. And just showing up doesn’t work when you need people on a dedicated list that have been trained said I will be there. Kind of like a RSVP, when you through the party it would be nice to know people will show up.
You are right, motivating people is an art, but I guess I just don’t understand how people are not motivated to save their jobs, guess they are busy doing emails on the web. But I believe mostly they don’t want to put in the time for a position or job that they don’t see immediate compensation for. But thats just my point of view having done the things you tell me are wrong.

Neither I nor anyone I know have received the calls you speak of. Our contact information is acurate as I have received other correspondence from the NPA.

I'm not saying you didn't call. I'm just saying many people who would have stepped up haven't been contacted specifically about an event.

 

[FLB717]

AFCitrus, calls were made, many many calls. If we had not been flying the 717 for so long our fingers could not have taken the button pushing to dial. I'm sorry that 3 of us couldn't reach all 1500+ pilots, but I guess we had only so many days off, but we did try. We even tried to get volunteers to make calls, the outcome was ...... However we did get enough people to say yes that the backbone is in place.

Well if they or you have not been contact and they or you stepped, up good! I am glad to see it. Thank you to those who have.

And yes Lear70 is a guy who has put his butt where his mouth is (on the line, sorry Ty, could't let you get in that easy) and I respect that very much.

 

[Lear70]

I have not been very vocal on this site for a while now, because I believe that the give and take of discussion even outright rebellion is a protected form of speech. But Lear to say that the P2P program is not to do more than be ears of the BoD is not only off base but is completely counter to the role of their training and use as members.

Training? What training? I never received anything but a single phone call when I joined the program saying if I had any questions, give them a call and they'd leave a pin and lanyard in my v-file.

NO training. Zero. Zilch. Not even via email.

How do I know this, I started the program and did the training for most all of the first classes. Then a very capable and excellent leader took the position over. He was replaced by another dedicated and outstanding Chair. And again you are wrong in that information and activities are not to be handed down, an example of this is why we have things called Committees, in fact you even serve on one now.

No, I don't. There is no "committee", it's an advisory board, I'm not "on" the NC.

P2P’s are for action both verbally and physically to walk the halls and be present for their fellow Pilots. What was the role they were asked to accomplish? To engage other Pilots and pass along the number and/or email of the SPC chair, to back up the SPC information that was going out in the Eweekly, Quarterly and word of mouth.

Again, not a job for the P2P's except to BACK UP the SPC information that SHOULD have been put out by the NPA FIRST. This is Union 101.

I can tell you that also, that myself, the SPC chair and another motivated individual called multiple hundreds of our pilot group (nearly all that contact information was accurate for) telling them about the service we needed and why, and if they didn’t answer we left NPA, and personal phone numbers. I received a hand full of calls back to volunteer.

I never received a phone call. Nor did any of the handful of my classmates I talked to about info picketing. It was handled poorly. Period.

Should an email be sent, yes and I believe many were in the E-Weekly etc. As to picking a place and time I guess you have never picketed before or you would have understood that training is required to preform it properly and legally.

Maybe you should ask before you assume.

Picketed several times, mainly for Mesaba. You don't need hours of "special training", you need a small prep for dress code in your email request then you need a 15 minute "briefing" before it begins on conduct and details. That's it. It's not rocket science.

And just showing up doesn’t work when you need people on a dedicated list that have been trained said I will be there. Kind of like a RSVP, when you through the party it would be nice to know people will show up.

Then put it out as a request. JUST a request, not a weekly update.

This is one of the most important tools we have available to us as pilots against management. I think it bears a little more attention then being burried below the new-hire weekly pizza dinner.

You are right, motivating people is an art, but I guess I just don’t understand how people are not motivated to save their jobs, guess they are busy doing emails on the web. But I believe mostly they don’t want to put in the time for a position or job that they don’t see immediate compensation for. But thats just my point of view having done the things you tell me are wrong.

People are motivated to save their jobs when they feel their jobs are threatened. right now they don't feel threatened. Make them understand, take ownership, then give them a meaningful way to act.

Again, not rocket science.

 

[FLB717]

People are motivated to save their jobs when they feel their jobs are threatened. right now they don't feel threatened. Make them understand, take ownership, then give them a meaningful way to act.

True, and I would hope by now they were paying attention, and if not now when?

If every person didn't get a call, sorry for that. 3 people / 1500 pilots at 3 min a call if no answer is 25 hours of non-stop dialing per volunteer. Again sorry everone didn't get a call. How to enroll has NEVER been a gaurded secret.

But you should have been brought in for a P2P class, you never should have been brought in that way with no training or guidence.

But I still disagree with your easy as pie version of picketing. It may be easy but it needs to be done right, and that means more than just wearing you hat.

Neither one of us can make people do anything they are not determined to do, and when they feel the career is on the line more will happen with in themselves to be engaged.

 

[crosscut]

I have not been very vocal on this site for a while now, because I believe that the give and take of discussion even outright rebellion is a protected form of speech. But Lear to say that the P2P program is not to do more than be ears of the BoD is not only off base but is completely counter to the role of their training and use as members. How do I know this, I started the program and did the training for most all of the first classes. Then a very capable and excellent leader took the position over. He was replaced by another dedicated and outstanding Chair. And again you are wrong in that information and activities are not to be handed down, an example of this is why we have things called Committees, in fact you even serve on one now. And how do they get their orders, they don’t make them up all alone do they?
P2P’s are for action both verbally and physically to walk the halls and be present for their fellow Pilots. What was the role they were asked to accomplish? To engage other Pilots and pass along the number and/or email of the SPC chair, to back up the SPC information that was going out in the Eweekly, Quarterly and word of mouth. I can tell you that also, that myself, the SPC chair and another motivated individual called multiple hundreds of our pilot group (nearly all that contact information was accurate for) telling them about the service we needed and why, and if they didn’t answer we left NPA, and personal phone numbers. I received a hand full of calls back to volunteer.
Should an email be sent, yes and I believe many were in the E-Weekly etc. As to picking a place and time I guess you have never picketed before or you would have understood that training is required to preform it properly and legally. And just showing up doesn’t work when you need people on a dedicated list that have been trained said I will be there. Kind of like a RSVP, when you through the party it would be nice to know people will show up.
You are right, motivating people is an art, but I guess I just don’t understand how people are not motivated to save their jobs, guess they are busy doing emails on the web. But I believe mostly they don’t want to put in the time for a position or job that they don’t see immediate compensation for. But thats just my point of view having done the things you tell me are wrong.

Hey, FLB, you have the nerve to show up here & tell Lear he is in the wrong after you personally voted YES on the TA & then tried to sell it to everyone?! And then you blame the pilot group for lack of determination?! Why don't you tell everybody here why YOU personally voted YES on this TA? Another idea: why don't you tell everybody what you got for selling everyone down the river? Better idea: why don't you resign & let a more capable & "determined" individual step in (please?) Your experience is barely enough to wipe Lear's shoes. You're nothing but a check airman hopeful (Mark these words). So far you have done nothing but brag about your so-called experience with absolutely NO action to back it up. Your experience got you 1% of votes when you ran against an incumbent. Then you ran unopposed & slipped through the crack & everyone is paying for it now. BTW, I'm one of the 1,500 & I didn't get a call either.

With all your experience, FLB, why did you endorse this TA?

 

[FLB717]

I wrote many comments, but most are not fit to respond in public, but I think the next time we crosscut in the hall feel free to ask me these questions in person, make sure you ask me the one about what I got! As far as why this TA went out, because you needed to see it and make your pilots point of view decision and make it heard in the direction YOU choose. And your election information is not so very spot on, check your facts.

 

[PonchoMan]

Shouldn't this be in the LCC's/Nationals board?