AirTran Pilots Fired!!!!!!!

[Kugelblitz]

As far as whether the senior pilots will lose sleep knowing that younger pilots with families and less savings are hitting the streets; fat chance.

I just saw our self-appointed 'point-man' for CAL to bring about age 65 legislation/bribery to fruition at our layover hotel at CDG. He was livin' and lovin' life with no qualms about his 60+ year old ass keeping his job while potentially 500 of our junior and most financially insecure pilots hit the streets for an apparently projected 5 years (our colas are potentially extended to 2013).

I flew with the man and he personally told me how just 3 more years of flying would allow him to payoff his second home situated on Lake Tahoe. I just shook my head and told him how self-absorbed he and his cohorts were. That ended our conversing for the next 3 days.

So to think, as the original post rhetorically asked, if senior pilots will have a conscience issue over junior pilots furlough, forget about it.

This business is for self-absorbed, licentious nihilist. After what I have observed over the last 5 years between AA, Delta (via Comair), and now with CAL I can truly say I am utterly ashamed to be associated with this motley endeavor.

 

[starchkr]

You're CRAZY!!!!! There i did it...

Anyway, it shouldn't be 177 sick calls, it should be (insert number of pilots on AAI's seniority list here) sick calls! That is just $hitty that they would do that! Furlough is bad enough, but to fire...

 

[DX Rick]

Where is PFT_128 on this issue?
Or is he hanging out with his Eastern Scab buddies?

 

[humuakalaka]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Age 65 scumbag Eastern scabs at AAI's training center. All AAI pilots ought to be calling in sick and/or striking ASAP!! Unbelievable. My jaw is on the floor.

 

[Lear70]

Being layed-off and being fired are two different things.

To cut through all the language and interpretation, is it that Ait tran is furloughing 177 pilots on probation with NO recall rights? Is this basically whats happening?

No, that's NOT what's happening. If it was, people wouldn't be so p*ssed off. Upset, sure.

Again: the company is FLAT, OUTRIGHT, TELLING THE JUNIOR 177 PILOTS ON PROBATION THAT THEY WILL BE TERMINATED.

NOT FURLOUGHED.

TERMINATED. No recall rights, nothing, zero, zilch, nada.

However, if the NPA (union) will give the company a side letter allowing the retired instructors to stay in the training center, the company will FURLOUGH those probationary pilots instead of terminating them.

This is, again, what has been said about 14 times in the last 3 pages... If we meant furloughed, we would have said furloughed.

Airtran will have no problem finding pilots when they start hiring again. Skybus, Go Jets, etc. have never had any problem finding pilots. Airtran will be no different.

Sure, but it will be just like 1999 to early 2001 at AirTran; the only pilots they will be getting is the ultra-low-time pilots, just like they did back then.

Skybus, Virgin America, GoJets, all had lots of pilots interested because of EXTREMELY quick upgrade programs, if not direct-entry Captain slots. Towards the end of their growth, they were struggling to find highly-qualified pilots, too.

More than likely, when AirTran starts hiring, the rest of the airlines will be starting to recruit as well. After this debacle, the only people HR will be able to recruit is low-time pilots willing to jump over just to get out of an RJ earlier or people otherwise unemployable.

Will they get people? Sure. Will highly-experienced RJ Captains choose AirTran in the future? Or will they stay put waiting for someone else to call? I predict the latter. Could be wrong, it's happened before.

 

[curtis46]

Or...............and call me crazy here............when/if they ever need pilots again...........they could just bring back the ones that already applied, interviewed, were hired and then flew the line as employees of the company!

Like getting screwed in the @ss and come back for more! ok maybe a couple;most would reither fly a 19 seater for the rest of their lives.

 

[WSurf]

Where is PFT_128 on this issue?
Or is he hanging out with his Eastern Scab buddies?

Probably looking into a Gulfstream Academy Instructor Postion. Jk'in... Not cool making a joke about him at this time. Good Luck to those AirTran folks, bunch of ex-Piedmont folks there and many will be effected by this.

 

[MINIME]

I agree with all the future hiring analogies. But doesn't the Union have any legal legs to stand on for this matter? If they do, they should be exausting each and every one of them. Now!!! Pronto!!!Management has dared the pilot group into war. Right now, they don't think you'll fight. Perhaps they're still living in the 90s.

You're in or about to start contract negotiations again. Time to ask for release from mediation if no other legal avenues are available. You cannot afford to let your young to be cannibalized by your management. Failure to do so, will only empower them to keep running all over you. Hold true to your values and your legal contract.

Despite the economic conditions, the line has got be drawn somewhere. Management has done it for you and is daring you to cross it. It appears that steering the company into survivability is taking a back seat to bringing the pilots to its knees. It's disgusting to see this industry being destroyed by these so called managers that use airlines as personal ATMs.

For the record, even the regionals with the exception of one case, treat their newhires better than what is being portrayed by AAI. If those people in the training department had any morals whatsoever, they would walk out of their jobs on their own in protest. But I know, that's like listening to the 61 yr old CA tell me about his second home and boat upgrades.

 

[FlyWolf]

Just an outsider opinion here, why doesn't the NPA sign a LOA letting the company keep their training guys? It might be the least damage case to the pilot group???, and maybe plan to remove them from the seniority list when you start negotiating again?

 

[Lear70]

Just an outsider opinion here, why doesn't the NPA sign a LOA letting the company keep their training guys? It might be the least damage case to the pilot group???, and maybe plan to remove them from the seniority list when you start negotiating again?

Negotiations are ongoing... they just started back up Section 6 talks in D.C. today.

The NSLI's aren't on the seniority list. They're retirees.

In order to sign the LOA, the BoD has stated (and I agree with them 100%) that they will need several more things that are related to this event in order to sign that LOA, including a provision that further restricts the company from EVER pulling this again, specifically, protecting probationary pilots from termination for ANY reason except discipline-related issues, or something similar.

Otherwise, we just gave them the reward they were seeking and incentivize the company to pull that same card again some other time when it suits them.

The union isn't ignoring the situation,,,

 

[Mach92]

Just an outsider opinion here, why doesn't the NPA sign a LOA letting the company keep their training guys? It might be the least damage case to the pilot group???, and maybe plan to remove them from the seniority list when you start negotiating again?

Are you kidding me? There is NO negotiating anymore this is all out WAR. The airline should be shut down in the next 24 hours. Now the union can't call for anything illegal but read between the lines here.

 

[McNugget]

Yes Fired. "Position ELIMINATED" "Permanent" Starting sept 6th. Email came out last night along with list of effected pilots.
Why not FURLOUGHED? To protect 15 OLD easter guys still hobbling around the training department. The contract states that before a line pilot is furloughed they must furlough the retired instructors first. To get around this they have decided to FIRE all Probationary pilots on Sept 6th. The list goes back to Sept 10th 2007. WOW what a coincedence. To kill 177 pilots careers and throw them into a market where there is no jobs with no hopes of returning is beyond imagination. The old guys have maybe 3-4 years left tops and all have retirments, grown kids, homes ect. I hope they sleep well at night that family will be broken and careers thrown away.This is AirTran. Maybe a good place to work a few years back but now the abomination of the industry. I rank MESA higher than AirTran.
When the industry rebounds I would take a long hard look at AirTran before applying. The first problem in the industry they will Fire you.

WAY TO GO VALUJET! The pilots will not do anything because they have no balls

 

[spitfire1500]

The union gave the company relief many years ago during the last contract negotiations to use NSLI's. It was INTENDED to be a short-term measure, not the permanent position it has become. That's why the contract also contains entries that ANY pilot may refuse a checkride by a retired instructor and opt for a checkride by a Seniority List instructor or the FAA instead (I don't know when this has been used, if ever, but the allowance is there).

Is there any way the union could get together there as a whole and just say as representatives for our pilot group there has been a vote (after taking a vote) that any pilot that is a member of the union will be checked by a seniority list instructor.

 

[spitfire1500]

Or...............and call me crazy here............when/if they ever need pilots again...........they could just bring back the ones that already applied, interviewed, were hired and then flew the line as employees of the company!

If they don't bring back those trained Mgt are fools that is a lot of money going out the door.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Yeah,
Airline pilots have never caved to mgmt pressure before. They have always upheld strikes, never taken concessions, gave up pensions or QOL. Airline pilots are far too unified to ever put up to any low handed tactics by mgmt. Senior pilots have always looked out for junior pilots. Could you imagine if a pilot group ever decided to fly small jets because another pilot group felt that they would lower wages too much. Could you imagine the state of the industry if a pilot took a job at a sub-standard company just to get out of a regional or into one? Whew, I am so glad none of that has ever happened. A shame AAI pilots have to set such a bad precedent.

I hate everyone.