AirTran Pilots Fired!!!!!!!

[carl p]

Bottom line, from someone on the chopping block, no concessions! Sure sounds like a different place than the one who spent the first day giving us the sunshine pump and koolaid enema. I would love to chat with the gal Denise about what a great company we work for now.

 

[CitationLover]

sorry to hear what is happening at AAI.

absolute horse shiite if they fire people.

 

[Lear70]

Why on earth would you have something in your contract that would require your company to furlough instructors first? Why aren't the instructors Non-seniority-list instructors? Delta and NW I know do this. You need instructors on a downturn as well as an upturn. Your instructors (NSLIs) should be a seperate work force subject to it's own ups and downs. I think this provision in your contract has screwed the new hires. Managments, like pilots will always find a way to exploit a contract.

Short-sighted, aren't we?

Because, in the beginning, all instructors, including Line Check Airmen and sim instructors, WERE LINE PILOTS.

The union gave the company relief many years ago during the last contract negotiations to use NSLI's. It was INTENDED to be a short-term measure, not the permanent position it has become. That's why the contract also contains entries that ANY pilot may refuse a checkride by a retired instructor and opt for a checkride by a Seniority List instructor or the FAA instead (I don't know when this has been used, if ever, but the allowance is there).

By requiring the termination of NSLI's, about 14-15 guys, you save 14-15 pilot jobs as the training center MUST be staffed, and line pilots can bid into the training center (quite a few people want it, especially people who live locally), thus reducing the number of furloughs. This also costs the company quite a bit of money if the people who bid into the training center are Captains.

It's a job protection measure for seniority list pilots. No one imagined the company would hold a junior portion of the pilot group hostage for a contract item like this. It's a terrorist action, it's absolutely despicable, and anyone who defends it should be dragged out into the street, castrated, drawn, quartered, and shot.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Lear70]

Bottom line, from someone on the chopping block, no concessions! Sure sounds like a different place than the one who spent the first day giving us the sunshine pump and koolaid enema. I would love to chat with the gal Denise about what a great company we work for now.

Yeah, I'm wondering how the company will defend against this one at future career fairs.

They'll have a hard time hiring anything but VERY inexperienced regional pilots after this debacle...

 

[xray678]

the Airtran pilots, as a group, should refuse to go to a sim run by one of the retired instructors. Take away the companies reason to keep these guys.

I know having a sim with one of the retired guys would make me sick.....too sick to have a sim that day.

 

[BoilerUP]

I've only flown on AirTran once...but after this news I won't be a paying passenger a 2nd time.

 

[zman]

Hold on as a guy on probation does this mean i wont be getting a raise??

 

[Hobiehawker]

Being layed-off and being fired are two different things.

To cut through all the language and interpretation, is it that Ait tran is furloughing 177 pilots on probation with NO recall rights? Is this basically whats happening?

 

[hockeypilot44]

Airtran will have no problem finding pilots when they start hiring again. Skybus, Go Jets, etc. have never had any problem finding pilots. Airtran will be no different.

 

[79%N1]

Airtran will have no problem finding pilots when they start hiring again. Skybus, Go Jets, etc. have never had any problem finding pilots. Airtran will be no different.

Or...............and call me crazy here............when/if they ever need pilots again...........they could just bring back the ones that already applied, interviewed, were hired and then flew the line as employees of the company!

 

[Kugelblitz]

As far as whether the senior pilots will lose sleep knowing that younger pilots with families and less savings are hitting the streets; fat chance.

I just saw our self-appointed 'point-man' for CAL to bring about age 65 legislation/bribery to fruition at our layover hotel at CDG. He was livin' and lovin' life with no qualms about his 60+ year old ass keeping his job while potentially 500 of our junior and most financially insecure pilots hit the streets for an apparently projected 5 years (our colas are potentially extended to 2013).

I flew with the man and he personally told me how just 3 more years of flying would allow him to payoff his second home situated on Lake Tahoe. I just shook my head and told him how self-absorbed he and his cohorts were. That ended our conversing for the next 3 days.

So to think, as the original post rhetorically asked, if senior pilots will have a conscience issue over junior pilots furlough, forget about it.

This business is for self-absorbed, licentious nihilist. After what I have observed over the last 5 years between AA, Delta (via Comair), and now with CAL I can truly say I am utterly ashamed to be associated with this motley endeavor.

 

[starchkr]

You're CRAZY!!!!! There i did it...

Anyway, it shouldn't be 177 sick calls, it should be (insert number of pilots on AAI's seniority list here) sick calls! That is just $hitty that they would do that! Furlough is bad enough, but to fire...

 

[DX Rick]

Where is PFT_128 on this issue?
Or is he hanging out with his Eastern Scab buddies?

 

[humuakalaka]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Age 65 scumbag Eastern scabs at AAI's training center. All AAI pilots ought to be calling in sick and/or striking ASAP!! Unbelievable. My jaw is on the floor.

 

[Lear70]

Being layed-off and being fired are two different things.

To cut through all the language and interpretation, is it that Ait tran is furloughing 177 pilots on probation with NO recall rights? Is this basically whats happening?

No, that's NOT what's happening. If it was, people wouldn't be so p*ssed off. Upset, sure.

Again: the company is FLAT, OUTRIGHT, TELLING THE JUNIOR 177 PILOTS ON PROBATION THAT THEY WILL BE TERMINATED.

NOT FURLOUGHED.

TERMINATED. No recall rights, nothing, zero, zilch, nada.

However, if the NPA (union) will give the company a side letter allowing the retired instructors to stay in the training center, the company will FURLOUGH those probationary pilots instead of terminating them.

This is, again, what has been said about 14 times in the last 3 pages... If we meant furloughed, we would have said furloughed.

Airtran will have no problem finding pilots when they start hiring again. Skybus, Go Jets, etc. have never had any problem finding pilots. Airtran will be no different.

Sure, but it will be just like 1999 to early 2001 at AirTran; the only pilots they will be getting is the ultra-low-time pilots, just like they did back then.

Skybus, Virgin America, GoJets, all had lots of pilots interested because of EXTREMELY quick upgrade programs, if not direct-entry Captain slots. Towards the end of their growth, they were struggling to find highly-qualified pilots, too.

More than likely, when AirTran starts hiring, the rest of the airlines will be starting to recruit as well. After this debacle, the only people HR will be able to recruit is low-time pilots willing to jump over just to get out of an RJ earlier or people otherwise unemployable.

Will they get people? Sure. Will highly-experienced RJ Captains choose AirTran in the future? Or will they stay put waiting for someone else to call? I predict the latter. Could be wrong, it's happened before.

 

[curtis46]

Or...............and call me crazy here............when/if they ever need pilots again...........they could just bring back the ones that already applied, interviewed, were hired and then flew the line as employees of the company!

Like getting screwed in the @ss and come back for more! ok maybe a couple;most would reither fly a 19 seater for the rest of their lives.

 

[WSurf]

Where is PFT_128 on this issue?
Or is he hanging out with his Eastern Scab buddies?

Probably looking into a Gulfstream Academy Instructor Postion. Jk'in... Not cool making a joke about him at this time. Good Luck to those AirTran folks, bunch of ex-Piedmont folks there and many will be effected by this.

 

[MINIME]

I agree with all the future hiring analogies. But doesn't the Union have any legal legs to stand on for this matter? If they do, they should be exausting each and every one of them. Now!!! Pronto!!!Management has dared the pilot group into war. Right now, they don't think you'll fight. Perhaps they're still living in the 90s.

You're in or about to start contract negotiations again. Time to ask for release from mediation if no other legal avenues are available. You cannot afford to let your young to be cannibalized by your management. Failure to do so, will only empower them to keep running all over you. Hold true to your values and your legal contract.

Despite the economic conditions, the line has got be drawn somewhere. Management has done it for you and is daring you to cross it. It appears that steering the company into survivability is taking a back seat to bringing the pilots to its knees. It's disgusting to see this industry being destroyed by these so called managers that use airlines as personal ATMs.

For the record, even the regionals with the exception of one case, treat their newhires better than what is being portrayed by AAI. If those people in the training department had any morals whatsoever, they would walk out of their jobs on their own in protest. But I know, that's like listening to the 61 yr old CA tell me about his second home and boat upgrades.

 

[FlyWolf]

Just an outsider opinion here, why doesn't the NPA sign a LOA letting the company keep their training guys? It might be the least damage case to the pilot group???, and maybe plan to remove them from the seniority list when you start negotiating again?

 

[Lear70]

Just an outsider opinion here, why doesn't the NPA sign a LOA letting the company keep their training guys? It might be the least damage case to the pilot group???, and maybe plan to remove them from the seniority list when you start negotiating again?

Negotiations are ongoing... they just started back up Section 6 talks in D.C. today.

The NSLI's aren't on the seniority list. They're retirees.

In order to sign the LOA, the BoD has stated (and I agree with them 100%) that they will need several more things that are related to this event in order to sign that LOA, including a provision that further restricts the company from EVER pulling this again, specifically, protecting probationary pilots from termination for ANY reason except discipline-related issues, or something similar.

Otherwise, we just gave them the reward they were seeking and incentivize the company to pull that same card again some other time when it suits them.

The union isn't ignoring the situation,,,