Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[Kharma Police]

love that that airtran pilots are pushing for arbitration.

It would prevent lawsuits from both sides.

 

[Britpilot]

love that that airtran pilots are pushing for arbitration.

Not pushing for it but it will probably happen that way.

 

[Lear70]

love that that airtran pilots are pushing for arbitration.

Not at all. It's simply our fall-back position if our MC can't work out something equitable for everyone.

Most of us are saying "Let's find something that's fair, and a wholesale staple of large portions of our F/O list to the bottom of your list and large numbers of our CA's getting bounced back to F/O ain't it." I sincerely hope we can and we can all just have a great time at work together, take care of each other, fly our trips, and go home.

 

[Max Powers]

I'm willing to let every AT guy have exactly what they have Today.

Same pay, same benefits, same domiciles, same retirement, same seat, etc.

But if you want to come play in this sandbox you will need to give up something.

So what are you willing to give up?

Serious question.

How about upgrade and fast movement up the seniority list. We are set to do that with existing orders that our very profitable and streamlined company was in a position to make.

 

[yoyoma]

Not at all. It's simply our fall-back position if our MC can't work out something equitable for everyone.

Most of us are saying "Let's find something that's fair, and a wholesale staple of large portions of our F/O list to the bottom of your list and large numbers of our CA's getting bounced back to F/O ain't it." I sincerely hope we can and we can all just have a great time at work together, take care of each other, fly our trips, and go home.

man are you on crack! i would take a staple to the bottom of united right now if i got a 50+% raise! sorry but we are buying you, not the other way around. if you think a 6 year captain at at has the same career expectations as a 6 year fo here you are insane.

 

[yoyoma]

if alpa came to AT the day before this was announced and asked for a pilot vote to be stapled to the bottom of southwest it would have passed 90%

 

[kwick]

man are you on crack! i would take a staple to the bottom of united right now if i got a 50+% raise! sorry but we are buying you, not the other way around. if you think a 6 year captain at at has the same career expectations as a 6 year fo here you are insane.

You're right. There's no comparison.

The 6 yr AT Captain will still be a Captain, and a 6 yr SW F/O
will still be an F/O.

Deal with it. That's reality.

 

[Lear70]

I have no interest in engaging you when you are so polarized against our pilot group and on such a severely skewed side of the spectrum for what "fair" is, that there's simply no hope of convincing you otherwise.

I will simply state that I disagree with ALL of your assertions and find absolutely zero basis in reality for them. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine, I simply disagree with it.

This will be fair to BOTH parties. Or it will go to arbitration. For the rest of the Southwest pilots who understand that basic truth, I look forward to flying with you in the future.

Regards,,,

 

[MCDU]

Integrity would be to respect someones DOH. Polar Atlas, Frontier RAH Midwest, AWA AAA, CAL United. They are all going to be very messy unless they get a contract first like Delta did with NWA. If you piss of the bigger group, Good luck. That is what happens when pilots think they deserve more. Every seniority list is based on longevity. It should not change just because you merge. The faster the upgrade the crappier the company. Airlines that pay well and get cheap labor usually expand , while airlines with higher labor cost tend to stagnate.

SWA should offer DOH to all Air tran pilots. If it goes relative from top to bottom, you will see a revolt at SWA and it would be alot uglier then the True union principle of DOH.


M

 

[bizicmo]

man are you on crack! i would take a staple to the bottom of united right now if i got a 50+% raise! sorry but we are buying you, not the other way around. if you think a 6 year captain at at has the same career expectations as a 6 year fo here you are insane.

your claiming the other guy is on crack but you would take a staple to the bottom of united right now???????

 

[UALX727]

i'll tell you why. you guys COULD NOT get hired at Southwest! we could, and did, and now you want us to be junior to you? no thanks.

I just had to smile when I read this.

I was called for a Southwest interview over 10 years ago....I respectfully called the lady back and politely declined. In hindsight, dumb move...and I didn't know if I would have been hired, anyway. The reality was I was about 6 months into my first year at United at the time. Ya know, Contract 2000 and all. Not sure where Southwest was on pay back then, but UAL was on top. (That's why when I hear all of the arguments about pay, I know from my experiences that can be taken away overnight...all one is really left with is his seniority. But that is something for an arbitrator to decide, and I'll live with that).

I guess what I'm getting at is your statement doesn't tell the whole story.

There are many guys at AirTran...especially after 9-11, who were laid off from many other reputable companies and had to start over again. I routinely fly with retired Delta captains, US Airways 20 year guys who left early, many mainline furloughees and tons of military guys. Quite possibly many of us could have gotten on at Southwest...we simply elected to go somewhere else with a better contract at the time. Bad career move looking back, sure. Hindsight and all. But to say the AirTran guys couldn't have gotten on over at Southwest is a stretch. Many just chose a different path. I have to say I am very impressed by the quality of guys and the experience of most of the guys I fly with here.

I have many friends over at SWA, all great guys. Just remember, we AirTran guys are simply along for the ride in all of this. Gary Kelly initiated this whole thing....we were doing pretty good on our own. Good luck, it will go down as it will. The reality is I'm just a pilot with no say in this thing....I just fly where they tell me. Hopefully we will work it out like DAL/NWA rather than the USAir fiasco.

 

[ATLplt]

if alpa came to AT the day before this was announced and asked for a pilot vote to be stapled to the bottom of southwest it would have passed 90%

I honestly don't think you fly for SWA. You're even more obnoxious than the usual trolls. If by chance you slipped through the cracks and are actually employed there, (and as pissed off as you seem to be), it's going to be funny as hell when AT guys in this thread are senior to you and hopefully steal your number one choice...each and every month.

Now, go back to flying for virtual SWA on your flight sim.

 

[Ty Webb]

Integrity would be to respect someones DOH.

Integrity would be keeping a guy where he is when you merge the airline, and that would also follow current legislation and the recent precedents.

 

[rajflyboy]

Air Tranny peeps can't get their date of hire merge until they pay for there own 737 type rating from one of the typical SWA 737 type rating give away schools.

You know that guys aren't very good pilots until they are willing to buy their own type ratings.

 

[27 driver]

SWA acquiring AT is no different than if SWA bought a regional airline. The 717 has fewer seats and the pilots are making way less money.

Actually, in full coach class the 717 can have at least 123 + seats. I believe your 500's only have 122.

 

[27 driver]

You clowns that are "negotiating" on this board on AirTran pilots' behalf need to have a nice big cup of STFU because you sure don't speak for me or the top half our seniority list . . . ie the Pilots who have put in a decade or more here.

And maybe since your demographic are the minority at the Tranny it is you who needs a nice tall warm glass of STFU because you don't speak for anyone else either. You are less then 1/3'rd of the list. Follow you own advice. God I love democracy. Everybody gets a vote.

 

[islandhoper]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise and keep their relative seniority and not give up anything to the Southwest pilot group. Really?

Here is a thought. The Southwest pilot group sits on negotiations for the next, lets say, 7-8 years. We already are making nice money, plus a possible variable raise and a negotiated fixed raise coming in the next few years. We are doing fine, and Airtran pilots can give up over 500+K of lost income. That extra cash would be nice, but I'm sure the QOL is really what you want. You can be the North pilots, we will take South(west).

Now, maybe, you could be reasonable, and take the huge financial windfall and give up some seniority to get it. I doubt it. Just a thought.

I am sure glad that 4 out of 5 of our Negotiating Committee are First Officers.

My bet is a Arbitrator. But I wouldn't be fooled by your union into thinking this windfall will be easy, or fun. Might want to hold off on the high fives for a little while.

Have a wonderful day.

I used to think that Southwest employees were all about the culture and real love for their company. It appears to me more and more that for some, it is only love for the higher pay... Obviously some don't really give a damn about the company itself. They would be happy anywhere for higher pay or would burn Southwest if they don't see personal economic gains in anything the company does.

This is not ALL southwest pilots of course. Just noticing a few.

 

[Bob Dylan]

if alpa came to AT the day before this was announced and asked for a pilot vote to be stapled to the bottom of southwest it would have passed 90%

I think it would still pass that vote today. It's amazing that the AT pilots don't admit that they just hit the jackpot and admit that the junior SWA FOs are going to take one up the a$s!

AT pilots would still be hitting the jackpot being stapled to the bottom of SWA and nobody would get screwed. But it sounds like AT guys are going to fight for more and throw the whole SWA pilot group into turmoil!

Just my opinion from outside looking in.

 

[Lear70]

God I love democracy. Everybody gets a vote.

Ummm... not that I'm disagreeing with your advocacy of ceasing the message board back-and-forth about SLI issues (that's why I've stopped responding for the most part to these threads except for people who are ludicrously out in left field), but what vote are you speaking of here?

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Airlines that pay well and get cheap labor usually expand ,

M

Huh? Please enlighten us more with your vast wisdom.....

 

[Full of LUV]

Ummm... not that I'm disagreeing with your advocacy of ceasing the message board back-and-forth about SLI issues (that's why I've stopped responding for the most part to these threads except for people who are ludicrously out in left field), but what vote are you speaking of here?

Yes I was confused too..... Pilots vote on JCBA only, not an arbitrated SLI unless you do it the LCC way in which you vote to pitch a fit.....

 

[Full of LUV]

man are you on crack! i would take a staple to the bottom of united right now if i got a 50+% raise! sorry but we are buying you, not the other way around. if you think a 6 year captain at at has the same career expectations as a 6 year fo here you are insane.

It's all in perspective, should a 6 yr captain suddenly lose his seat to a 6yr FO at the SLI? Pay rates are really inconsequential as they can come and go, but the SLI will endure the remainder of your career.

Just think how much better situation SWAPA would be in if they hadn't pushed so hard for years for age 65. Now the SWAPA list will bear the weight of that policy like no other. Guess it's Karma....

 

[Cometman]

It's all in perspective, should a 6 yr captain suddenly lose his seat to a 6yr FO at the SLI? Pay rates are really inconsequential as they can come and go, but the SLI will endure the remainder of your career.

I do not think he would be losing his seat to a 6 yr SWA f/o. I think the argument is why should he keep his seat ahead of a 10 year SWA f/o/ If DOH was used as part of the process then he would never be able to hold the left seat with a 6 year seniority date.

 

[Lear70]

I do not think he would be losing his seat to a 6 yr SWA f/o. I think the argument is why should he keep his seat ahead of a 10 year SWA f/o/ If DOH was used as part of the process then he would never be able to hold the left seat with a 6 year seniority date.

Which is why AirTran pilots will never agree to DOH.

Taking away 25% of our Captain's seats and giving them to Southwest F/O's is definitely something arbitrators would consider a "windfall". No one should lose their seat over the deal.

Like I said, it'll be fair, or it'll go to an arbitrator. Anything else is just typical FI message board banter. I trust our MC implicitly, as I've flown with and known two of them for over a decade, one of the other two had my back during the ALPA merger, and therefore they have my full support and trust.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The faster the upgrade the crappier the company.

Doosh, you really are funny. Is that why after 20 years your man interest is only a 190 f/o at Airways? You turds have the slowest upgrades around, so that justifies LCC as being a "better company?"
Just think doosh, your 20 year 737 captains make almost as much as a 5th year swa f/o......

 

[GuppyWN]

deleted.

 

[jonjuan]

Which is why AirTran pilots will never agree to DOH.

Taking away 25% of our Captain's seats and giving them to Southwest F/O's is definitely something arbitrators would consider a "windfall". No one should lose their seat over the deal.

Like I said, it'll be fair, or it'll go to an arbitrator. Anything else is just typical FI message board banter. I trust our MC implicitly, as I've flown with and known two of them for over a decade, one of the other two had my back during the ALPA merger, and therefore they have my full support and trust.

That brings up a point. While I agree no one should necessarily "lose a seat," what does this really mean to an arbitrator? By losing a seat, does it mean less pay, worse schedule, worse basing options, fewer days off, etc? Depending upon all the variables, losing a seat from aai ca to wn fo may very well be a lateral or even better move as certainly schedule (reserve ca vs. Senior fo line holder), base of choice, vacation of choice, holidays/weekends off, etc.). I suppose it all depends upon what the new airtran contract will look like before an arbitrator has all of the facts.

 

[K-Mart]

So if SWA bought Colgan, would all their guys keep their seats???

 

[funnyman12]

I'm sure if American would have bought Airtran in 2000 they would brought out the stapler due to "career expectations" and pay windfall, etc. Ooops, because in the end our guys here at Airtran obviously faired 10x better without American aquiring Airtran back then. This is why the whole fair and equitable thingy came to be. No one has the airline business crystal ball and arbitrators know this. If SWAPA doesnt play fair then an arbitrator will most likely upset many over there. Just remember good ol' KARMA. HMMMMM.....look at AA/TWA, US/AmerWest.....since pilots couldnt play fair both airlines have been lets just say not the most pleasant to work for. Airtran was going to give Midwest a 4/1 ratio on SLI before the deal fell through. I imagine that if KARMA exists we got some good sheet. Lets play fair....there is a way to do this without either sides being aholes.

 

[scrub]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise !

Thats it !!! I was thinking more like $100,000!!!!! And whoops, just bought the house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ssssssseeeeeeyyyyyyyaaaaaaaa