Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[scoreboardII]

TV9 said

My question is, how is that a "windfall"? Captain, 135k or F/O, 135k, and a 5-15yr upgrade....

My answer is, you voted to strike to get what you propose at AAI, therefore, your windfall is not having to strike to get it. Just show up with a SWA ID badge, done deal.

 

[Lear70]

I'm with you. I hope that we have a SLI that will be equatible to both sides. I don't want to work with pissed off Airtran (soon to be Southwest) guys and you don't want the reverse. Hopefully the company will throw in some sort of bribe to make this all go easier. I would bet dollars to donuts that any Captain that loses his seat would be pay protected. Thats is what the company has offered in the past and I think they want this deal even more. Lets shoot for prosperity for all.

Sounds like a deal to me. Look forward to buying that first beer! :beer:

 

[GuppyWN]

Who's achieved a higher percentage of "organic growth" these last 10 years, SWA, or AAI?

My guess is AAI.

SWA has hired over 3000 pilots in the past 10 years.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

SWA has hired over 3000 pilots in the past 10 years.

Gup

In 10 years, AirTran has grown by 300%.

At the end of 2001, we had 640 pilots

By the end of 2010, we will have about 1900

 

[Ty Webb]

So what's with the new, improved, kinder, gentler General Lee? Did you have a near-death experience, or what?

You've become the "Dixie Cup" dispenser of goodwill suggestions.

"Tell a homely girl she would look GREAT if she would just put a brown bag over her face".

or

"You CAN fool all of the people ALL of the time, by just putting a cucumber in your pants". :laugh::laugh:

 

[NuGuy]

I love the passive/aggressive nature that the boards take on with stuff like this happens.

Post 1: You guys suck! You are getting a windfall! You give your dogs insulting and humiliating names!

Post 2: I love you guys, first round is on me! Lets go out and rule the world!

In reality, no matter what happens, those hard feelings are going to last until every last guy retires, or in some cases, is dead.

No place is the same after a merger.

Nu

 

[PreContact]

Yes you are a senior AAI f/o you have never been guaranteed by anyone of a upgrade date. When you were hired at AAI they did not enter upgrade date xx/xx/2011. You are never guaranteed an upgrade and you are never guaranteed to maintain an upgrade. Also, you are never guaranteed to maintain any seniority level. AAI pilots senior and junior need to realize your upgrade is in no way guaranteed merger or no merger. And IMO your relative seniority within a much smaller pilot group in no way gives you the right to achieve super seniority gaining is some cases 5+ years seniority.

You could turn this around and say YOU were never guaranteed that YOUR upgrade wouldn't be pushed back due to age 65, a merger, recession, etc...You're right, "you are never guaranteed to maintain any seniority level."

 

[GuppyWN]

In 10 years, AirTran has grown by 300%.

At the end of 2001, we had 640 pilots

By the end of 2010, we will have about 1900

So what you are saying is that Southwest has added about 1700 MORE pilots in the same time period?

I agree.

Gup

 

[SFR]

I predict anywhere from 500-1000 furloughs at AAI lasting up to 3 years, all after the merger is set in stone.

 

[Just thinking]

Big fences make good neighbors. Allows things to settle down while merging the operations for the beginning. Everyone "keeps" what they could hold and the growth is "managed" to keep things in the proper ratio. Who knows how many years it will take..... 3-6???? Many of our current routes for AirTran will go away (HSV-UTM-HVQ and some other gems that made you scratch your head....)
Maybe we can get some real management to control growth into markets that will really generate revenue.... bump up CLT go back to CHS and many other possibilities to have an impact that Airtran was never able to accomplish due to the poor frequency.
Great folks on both sides and I pray for a peaceful resolution.

 

[AlbieF15]

In reality, no matter what happens, those hard feelings are going to last until every last guy retires, or in some cases, is dead.

No place is the same after a merger.

Nu

I am rolling at the truth in that statment. There are still bitter feelings with some guys at FedEx about a merger 21 years ago.

I'll be honest. I know some great guys at SWA. I know some great guys at Airtran. However, I don't think many of the SWA pilots...especially those junior guys...ever "chair flew" in their mind what a merger would look like or do to their careers. Despite some stern lectures and tongue lashings from some stock option millionare captains, I think the age 65 and merger have created two, and perhaps now three SWA groups...the haves, the have nots...and the new guys. And I think the days of ever having the one team mentality are probably lost. Age 65 started that...this will be another nail in the coffin. Southwest will be a good airline, but it will be a very, very different airline than what we knew in the past.

Good luck. I mean it.

 

[General Lee]

Again, an emotional arguement for relative seniority with no facts. Relative seniority unfairly rewards the smaller pilot group giving them unearned seniority. Your top 10% pilots would achieve unearned 12 years of seniority (AAI wasn't even in existence and they were earning seniority) your middle 50% guys would earn 5 years of unearned seniority. Please address that fairly with facts and not emotion.

RESPECTFULLY, that isn't how it works. Arbitrators will decide what is fair, and what is not fair. If you are a 10 year FO at SWA, you most likely would NOT be put ahead of a 10 year AT Capt, since he probably has a higher RELATIVE seniority that you do. That doesn't mean that the number 30 AT Captain will be number 60 total at the new company, the arbitrators will figure that out. Both sides will have attornies (get the DL attorney from the DL/NWA SLI btw---he is worth it) and they will argue points to the arbitrators. So, there is NO reason to be saying who will be where, since you are not arguing that to the arbitrators anyway. SO, RELAX my PALs!

Regardless, ALL OF YOU ARE FANTASTIC PEOPLE, and I know things are gonna work out for all of you. If you can be nice to someone or something, do it. If you are walking down an alley at night and see a roach, pick him up and gently put him in a trash bin. He is probably hungry and there is more food in there for him to nibble on. It will make you feel GREAT! See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[kc81900]

You both need each other than, fine, fair is fair.

Airtran guys don't have to buy a superior contract with their seniority numbers, they can negotiate it on their own without a JCBA. Their already in mediation in section 6 negotiations. Fairly easy to get released shortly after the date of corporate closing with demands for contract parity. I'm sure the mediator wouldn't blink and SWA wont take a strike over something their going to have to give up regardless.

Look, you all are the same, flying your own pax in similar gauge equipment. SWA is making more today than AAI, but there's no guarantee that pay disparity would have existed 5, 10, 15 years from now. It's probably all going to come down to a slotted category/status ratio integration, maybe some longevity thrown in if SWA has significantly more retirements in the future.

Well as we all know AAI would not get a SWA contract. you are three contracts away from a SWA contract and at that time SWA would be three contracts further. Just due to the fact that SWA has 20 years on you. You wouldn't even have gotten an alaska contract if you would have you wouldn't be on the verge of striking. You think your about to be released wishful thinking the upcoming elections yea thats what washington wants this election season. On top of that your not getting released now. You seem to think your section 6 will go as you plan this your first contract negotiation?

 

[General Lee]

Big fences make good neighbors. Allows things to settle down while merging the operations for the beginning. Everyone "keeps" what they could hold and the growth is "managed" to keep things in the proper ratio. Who knows how many years it will take..... 3-6???? Many of our current routes for AirTran will go away (HSV-UTM-HVQ and some other gems that made you scratch your head....)
Maybe we can get some real management to control growth into markets that will really generate revenue.... bump up CLT go back to CHS and many other possibilities to have an impact that Airtran was never able to accomplish due to the poor frequency.
Great folks on both sides and I pray for a peaceful resolution.

RESPECTFULLY, Airtan has the largest planes on order currently, 40 738s. If there are fences and higher paying planes, the AT pilots would get them first, since their company ordered them, and that is what the arbitrators would say too. How about a 5 year fence on all 738s for the AT guys? You could also fence down the 717s, but they hold almost the same amount as the 735s, so the rates would be pretty darn close. That sure would fence out a lot of ATL and MKE for the SWA pilots. That is how arbitration and fences work. Do you really want that MY BEST FREINDS??? No, you don't, if you don't have to. PEACE AND LOVE MY BROTHERS!!! PEACE OUT!


Regardless, ALL OF YOU ARE FANTASTIC PEOPLE. DARN IT ALL, YOU GUYS ARE REALLY COOL. And, if you have some time tomorrow, try to do something nice for someone or something. If you see a Mom struggling with her 5 kids while trying to put groceries in her Mercedes SUV, ask her if you can help her out. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[kc81900]

You could turn this around and say YOU were never guaranteed that YOUR upgrade wouldn't be pushed back due to age 65, a merger, recession, etc...You're right, "you are never guaranteed to maintain any seniority level."

Yes I agree with you. However AAI pilots have posted numerous times about there upcoming upgrade, there career expectations, there top 10% seniority etc.... I have no problem with AAI getting integrated into WN list. Where does it say a merger guarantees anyone a seniority windfall? Your saying I wasn't guaranteed any of these things fine then show me were AAI pilots are guaranteed to still get these things do to a merger.