Airtran Pilot/FFDO Arrested: Blows .05 in MSP

[Bringupthebird]

This makes no sense, it's like saying the company pays me money, I pay for my house, therefore when I'm in my house I'm on company property.

Oh, by the way, they serve alcohol on the jet which is "company property"...

How in the world did you stretch it to that? Absurd!

Overnights only remove you from the present responsibility for flight, otherwise you are still accruing time away from base and (aside from the FAR sense) you are "on-duty" to the extent that you are on an overnight for the sole and express purpose of continuing your trip the next day.

When you're home, who cares what you do. When you're on a trip for your employer and representing the company, I'll bet they do!

 

[Dan Roman]

Nobody takes "Baghdad Bob" Dylan seriously.

Well he sucked at the grammy's, Mumford and Sons carried him. Maybe that's why he is so dilusional.

 

[Empennage]

+1. Especially on overnights. Bagging a pilot over the legal limit is the equivalent of a wet dream for the TSA. Why give them a reason? And to think this was before he got the 1/2/3 SWA hotel booze bonus.....

I suspect this is the reason why the 1/2/3 is history.

 

[waveflyer]

Nobody takes "Baghdad Bob" Dylan seriously.

No one. From either logo.

 

[waveflyer]

How in the world did you stretch it to that? Absurd!

Overnights only remove you from the present responsibility for flight, otherwise you are still accruing time away from base and (aside from the FAR sense) you are "on-duty" to the extent that you are on an overnight for the sole and express purpose of continuing your trip the next day.

When you're home, who cares what you do. When you're on a trip for your employer and representing the company, I'll bet they do!

That's just crazy. How long have you been flying, BringUp?
http://cf.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/faacorr/reserve_rest_qa.html
"3. How does the FAA define rest?

The FAA has consistently interpreted "rest" to mean a continuous period of time during which the flight crewmember is free from all restraint by a certificate holder. This includes freedom from work and freedom from responsibility for work should the occasion arise. Thus, a crewmember who was required to be near a phone, carry a beeper, or maintain contact by computer so that he would be available should the carrier need to notify him/her of a reassignment would not be on rest."

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/cabin_safety/regs/legal/media/onephcallFAfinal.DOC
"Rest must satisfy three conditions in order to qualify as a rest period: It must be 1) a continuous period of time, 2) determined prospectively, and 3) during which the crewmember is free from all restraint by the certificate holder,
including freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise."

 

[madjack]

easy: overdrink (it can happen), call in sick...the company will love you for it...

 

[carl p]

Bobby = Tool of the year

 

[Bringupthebird]

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/cabin_safety/regs/legal/media/onephcallFAfinal.DOC
"Rest must satisfy three conditions in order to qualify as a rest period: It must be 1) a continuous period of time, 2) determined prospectively, and 3) during which the crewmember is free from all restraint by the certificate holder,
including freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise."

I've worked with enough FAA CHDOs to tell you what that means.

It means that working in the office is not considered rest and that if the FAA were to come in and audit your Flight and Rest records and found someone (usually a management pilot) had been performing office duties and flying, they could end up with insufficient documented rest.

It does not greenlight Mardi Gras on an overnight, sorry. Try Again.

But I would be interested in being pursuaded how turning a 4-day trip into a jet-powered trans-continental pub crawl enhances the professionalism of pilots, and how that bad old TSA shouldn't harsh our mellow. And if you've got time, maybe go over how the behavior of Wall Street types has any bearing on how professional aviators should behave, because that one sounds kinda 3rd grade to my old ears.

 

[Ty Webb]

So have we, that's not the point. Having a drink OUTSIDE of our 12 hour FOM requirement is not going to get anyone in any hot water whatsoever.

What 12 hour requirement? Do you mean 8 hours, or was there a memo I missed?

 

[Lear70]

What 12 hour requirement? Do you mean 8 hours, or was there a memo I missed?

Sorry, brain fart, last 3 years at Kalitta...

and how that bad old TSA shouldn't harsh our mellow.

I've always loved that saying, haven't heard it in years, I think vintage era 60's and early 70's?

 

[Dornier 335]

That’s why you should never use mouthwash, toothpaste, or dental floss. You never know how those things will screw up the breathalyzer tests. Thats why my company prohibits flying within 24 hours after a dental cleaning.

I have a problem with that! Not with showing up 0.00%, but with the restrictions on what I can do and what I can't because of what a breathalyzer might show incorrectly. At my airline if you get randomly tested and you blow anything greater than 0.00% the breathalyzer shuts down and a second sample will be taken 15-20 mins after the first one. Mouthwash does cause an erratic reading, however; the measured BAC decreases quickly over time thus eliminates any false reading and values (that's the theory anyway!)

Bottom line is, if you are accused of having a BAC greater than the legal/company limit and you know it is because of mouthwash etc. request a blood analysis. That is medically speaking the only accurate way to determine the BAC.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Interestingly enough, the guy that did that was a scab.

Atleast he didn't land long and Ref+30 and slam into a Gas Station!

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Speaking of guys on high-protein diets, you should also know that a lot of protein bars are very high in sugar alcohols. (They use those instead of sugars, since they don't really affect the glycemic index...i.e. "net carbs".) We had a guy who ate a protein bar right before landing, got pulled for a random test, and blew through the roof. Luckily, he also did a blood test and showed zero.
Hope this helps,
bs

 

[WSurf]

The problem is that in most cases, the guys who show up blowing heat (America West), more than likely are also running on 4-5 hours of sleep. What if you saw these guys out the night prior and smelled the booze as you and your family walked on the plane? Would you think "Well, at least what they are about to do is safer than driving a car."??

Yes it is safer then driving a car. If those American West guys had actually took off do you think they would have crashed???? These plane fly themselves.... It's way different then driving down a road with only a thin white lines between you and another car traveling at you at 50MPH as your only buffer.
Those guys would have took-off, banged on the auto pilot and took turns sleepin' all the way to PHX. And nobody would have know.
Is it right?? Hell no! But getting into a car boozed up is Way More dangerous!!! Again, I am not saying either is right!!

 

[Ty Webb]

Speaking of guys on high-protein diets,

I can think of a few . . . .

Uppercrust
"Baghdad Bob" Dylan
The rest of my "ignore list"

:laugh:

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Speaking of guys on high-protein diets, you should also know that a lot of protein bars are very high in sugar alcohols. (They use those instead of sugars, since they don't really affect the glycemic index...i.e. "net carbs".) We had a guy who ate a protein bar right before landing, got pulled for a random test, and blew through the roof. Luckily, he also did a blood test and showed zero.
Hope this helps,
bs

Blood samples are not allowed for DOT Alcohol tests. Breathalyzers only.

 

[jonjuan]

i can think of a few . . . .

Uppercrust
"baghdad bob" dylan
the rest of my "ignore list"

:laugh:

lol.....

 

[waveflyer]

I've worked with enough FAA CHDOs to tell you what that means.

It means that working in the office is not considered rest and that if the FAA were to come in and audit your Flight and Rest records and found someone (usually a management pilot) had been performing office duties and flying, they could end up with insufficient documented rest.

It does not greenlight Mardi Gras on an overnight, sorry. Try Again.

But I would be interested in being pursuaded how turning a 4-day trip into a jet-powered trans-continental pub crawl enhances the professionalism of pilots, and how that bad old TSA shouldn't harsh our mellow. And if you've got time, maybe go over how the behavior of Wall Street types has any bearing on how professional aviators should behave, because that one sounds kinda 3rd grade to my old ears.

I'm saying the same outrage should apply to scheduled reduced rest since the same impairment exists.

And the reg is very clear- am I even required to stay at the company provided hotel?
No.
Sorry, but you're wrong on that one Bring-
And I'll never ceased to be amazed at how quickly an INCREASING # of pilots will join in on the witch-hunts-- assuming the worst of people who's performance record is statistically incredible

 

[Ty Webb]

Sorry, but you're wrong on that one Bring-
And I'll never ceased to be amazed at how quickly an INCREASING # of pilots will join in on the witch-hunts-- assuming the worst of people who's performance record is statistically incredible

Yep. I was completely against drug-testing for pilots, and still am. That was nothing more than political posturing by Elizabeth Dole, who was DOT Secretary in the late '80's.

Why am I against drug-testing? Because drug-testing solves a problem that doesn't exist, while ignoring the real problem- impaired performance.

Sure, you can be an insomniac neurotic who is in the midst of a terrible divorce and custody fight and has been living on pretzels and coffee, but as long as you pee clean, you're "good to go".

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep. I was completely against drug-testing for pilots, and still am. That was nothing more than political posturing by Elizabeth Dole, who was DOT Secretary in the late '80's.

Why am I against drug-testing? Because drug-testing solves a problem that doesn't exist, while ignoring the real problem- impaired performance.

Sure, you can be an insomniac neurotic who is in the midst of a terrible divorce and custody fight and has been living on pretzels and coffee, but as long as you pee clean, you're "good to go".

You're just clueless aren't you?