AirTran MEC: Whine on!

[GoodTimes]

You'd be a debating society of one.

Major airline is defined by the DOT. AirTran revenue exceeded this threshold by 250%.

As far as operations, one of the two airlines in the merger was operating internationally . . .

Guess which airline was first in LGA, BOS, PHL, DEN?

Hint- it wasn't SWA.

Gary Kelly knew what he was doing when he bought AirTran . . . two and a half years later, you still haven;t figured it out.

Ya got me, Ty. AAI was a major, international airline that served some big cities before SWA did. Who cares?

Guess which one was the acquired.

Hint - it wasn't SWA.

Two and a half years later and it appears it's you that still hasn't figured it out. Your career and all it's beloved promises and expectations are forever changed. It'll never be the same no matter how much you lament.

Here's to starting over.

 

[waveflyer]

And as a '99 legacy hire, according to my new hire orientation, I should be a 76 captain right about now.

I'm a 9th year SWA FO.

A loss of 100% of my previous airline seniority.

Things change.

There's a ton of ex-legacy folks at SWA with a similar career trajectory as mine. Its hard to muster a ton of empathy for your plight of "lost seniority". Try "lost career" on for size.

word to your mother

and +1 on the "game. set. match"

 

[freightdogfred]

Were you fired or were you furloughed and didn't take the recall? Did the company go out of business and/or file bankruptcy? If any of this is true, I don't see how it applies in comparison to the merger of two profitable major airlines.

It is telling though that you consider ending up at WN after losing a legacy job as a "lost career".

Game Set Match

 

[waveflyer]

I know of no one that wanted or expected a hire date at SWA before their actual AT hire date, stop being so melodramatic. Before you drag out SLI 1, it had a 30 percent seniority loss (average) also.

So again, I ask- what was your expectation then? Specifically please.

But i have to point out that

a) PCL, on this site, and very recently has said over and over that AT's "WORST" case scenario was DOH.
LET THAT SINK IN. THIS IS YOUR LEADERSHIP. (Neurotic and misguided as it was.)
Best case relative and expected that the actual SLI land somewhere in between.
PCL's words. Not mine. Would you like me to quote him?
So that takes care of 'i know of no one......'
this is one of your leaders, so please... 'can we dispense with the bull'.

and b) you do realize that DOH, which you are now saying was your "BEST" case scenario, comes with a huge relative seniority loss? varying by generation

We live in a capitalist system, dampened by our micro seniority system. All AT pilots took significant risks by going to and staying at AT - 10 years ago was the risk of going out of business- as you grew rapidly and became more profitable, but still small- you didn't take the "Poison Pill" measures SWA employees took when SWA was small- so your risk was acquisition by an older, more financially powerful airline. You were a takeover target- and I dare you to find any other buying entity that would have given you a better SLI.

Double dog dare.


Risk is an acceptable thing-- very similar to the significant risk i took accepting a job with a legacy in 2000, and similar to the risk i took holding out for SWA over interviewing at AT in 2004.

at what point are we all responsible for our own choices and realize Fate and chance plays a large role in an airline career, no matter how much we mitigate those in an actual flight deck?

 

[slaquer5]

You'd be a debating society of one.

Major airline is defined by the DOT. AirTran revenue exceeded this threshold by 250%.

As far as operations, one of the two airlines in the merger was operating internationally . . .

Guess which airline was first in LGA, BOS, PHL, DEN?

Hint- it wasn't SWA.

Gary Kelly knew what he was doing when he bought AirTran . . . two and a half years later, you still haven;t figured it out.

Check your facts

 

[Ty Webb]

Check your facts

Stapleton don't count. Just like ISP doesn't count, or you wouldnt bother with LGA.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ya got me, Ty. AAI was a major, international airline that served some big cities before SWA did. Who cares?

Guess which one was the acquired.

Hint - it wasn't SWA.

Two and a half years later and it appears it's you that still hasn't figured it out. Your career and all it's beloved promises and expectations are forever changed. It'll never be the same no matter how much you lament.

Here's to starting over.

It'll be fine.

Btw, I can appreciate what you (and many other folks) went through post 9/11. I am sure that after earning a slot at a Legacy carrier, it must have been a crushing and unfair blow. Congratulations to you for persevering, and I mean that in all sincerity . . . it's just different than an SLI between two healthy carriers.

Regds,
Ty

 

[redflyer65]

We can debate all day the idea of AAI being a "major airline".

Pretty much a regional airline until the 737 showed up and was utilized for the longer haul. (Had to contract with Ryanair initially to get it done.)

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Pretty much a regional airline until the 737 showed up and was utilized for the longer haul. (Had to contract with Ryanair initially to get it done.)

Kind of like WN was a CONUS carrier and code sharing with Volaris to get pax south of the border and had to buy AirTran to get it done?

BTW, we hop-scotched across the country with the 71 just like you do with the 73.

 

[GoodTimes]

It'll be fine.

Btw, I can appreciate what you (and many other folks) went through post 9/11. I am sure that after earning a slot at a Legacy carrier, it must have been a crushing and unfair blow. Congratulations to you for persevering, and I mean that in all sincerity . . . it's just different than an SLI between two healthy carriers.

Regds,
Ty

And I can appreciate you and your colleagues anxiety with regards to the sale of AAI and all the changes that accompany it. I can assure you that this is far from the insurmountable career obstacle that some would make it seem. You and 99% of the AAI pilots will flourish at SWA.

Going forward, it's on each of us as individuals to make or break this place and our futures. Let's hope we can all start pulling in the same direction sooner rather than later.

 

[slaquer5]

Stapleton don't count. Just like ISP doesn't count, or you wouldnt bother with LGA.

My bad, I thought you said DEN. We did fly into DEN before little A.

I did not see your sidebar note on the bottom of your post.

 

[freightdogfred]

And I can appreciate you and your colleagues anxiety with regards to the sale of AAI and all the changes that accompany it. I can assure you that this is far from the insurmountable career obstacle that some would make it seem. You and 99% of the AAI pilots will flourish at SWA.

Going forward, it's on each of us as individuals to make or break this place and our futures. Let's hope we can all start pulling in the same direction sooner rather than later.

Finally..after two years. A voice of reason. I don't know who you are, but I'll drink a beverage with you. PM your name, and I'll buy.

 

[freightdogfred]

********************te...I prob already know you, or have flown with you. You ain't the typical SWAPA poster

 

[waveflyer]

Finally..after two years. A voice of reason. I don't know who you are, but I'll drink a beverage with you. PM your name, and I'll buy.

First - never confuse FI with reality - the above sentiment is the vast majority-
And many, including me, have posted similar- just to watch AAI guys piss on the sentiment and continue to bitch about their lot in life-

You'll all get lots of drinks bought for you

 

[bluesideup1]

You'd be a debating society of one.

Major airline is defined by the DOT. AirTran revenue exceeded this threshold by 250%.

As far as operations, one of the two airlines in the merger was operating internationally . . .

Guess which airline was first in LGA, BOS, PHL, DEN?

Hint- it wasn't SWA.

Gary Kelly knew what he was doing when he bought AirTran . . . two and a half years later, you still haven;t figured it out.

Guess who flew into all those places except DEN before AirTran? Guess who was doing international before AirTran. That's right American Eagle. That is where I came from. AE was flying to more destination, served more airports, had a larger pilot group and I made close to what an AT captain was making. They are also considered a Major airline by the DOT.

I can't believe this is the warped logic coming from a Major Airline pilot used to justify why they deserved DOH or better.

It is not much higher pay scale, better working conditions, never furloughed, more stable, more bases, more pilots, more aircraft, better relationship with management, better contract, Etc.

No, it is about who went to LGA, BOS, DEN, PHL and international first. By that standard if AE was to buy you then you would have taken a staple since they are obviously far superior aviators since they did all that first?

 

[freightdogfred]

First - never confuse FI with reality - the above sentiment is the vast majority-
And many, including me, have posted similar- just to watch AAI guys piss on the sentiment and continue to bitch about their lot in life-

You'll all get lots of drinks bought for you

Please...you're giving me gas. I've read enough of your postings to know exactly how you think of the AAI group.

 

[slaquer5]

Finally..after two years. A voice of reason. I don't know who you are, but I'll drink a beverage with you. PM your name, and I'll buy.

I buy all little A drinks . Everyone I have meet have been great. That goes for at work and out of work .


I apologies for the Few we have at SWA that Speak out of there ass.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Who bought who? It's gonna be a long journey!

★Sent from my Galaxy S4★

 

[redflyer65]

Kind of like WN was a CONUS carrier and code sharing with Volaris to get pax south of the border and had to buy AirTran to get it done?

You mean Volaris, which we no longer codeshare with? Similar to your 'codeshare' with SkyWest that we nixed in the bud. Thanks for the reminder.

I think it was the AAI CEO that said he did as much as he could with AirTran and was pretty much against the growth wall at that point with the money left in the bank vs. the debt owed.

But somehow after the SW announcement, AirTran was the premiere airline to get hired at and was a wonderful place to work. Revisionist history at it's best. I must admit, I knew it was coming as soon as the announcement was made.

 

[humveedriver]

You mean Volaris, which we no longer codeshare with? Similar to your 'codeshare' with SkyWest that we nixed in the bud. Thanks for the reminder.

I think it was the AAI CEO that said he did as much as he could with AirTran and was pretty much against the growth wall at that point with the money left in the bank vs. the debt owed.

But somehow after the SW announcement, AirTran was the premiere airline to get hired at and was a wonderful place to work. Revisionist history at it's best. I must admit, I knew it was coming as soon as the announcement was made.

I know what you are saying Red and you are correct when you say AT didn't have deep pockets. And that had it's own set of issues. Made us more susceptible to furlough, lower wages, neg/flat growth and ultimately acquisition.

I just want to expand a little on a point I made in another thread. There are some similarities between the 717 program and SWAs 737 program. In terms of the routes flown and the tribal-esqe knowledge approach to training. I believe the common thread is you have seasoned 737 instructors much like the 717 had seasoned DC9 instructors.

What made the 737 a different job/career at AT was that we literally started an airline within an airline. A new guard took over the training, and the focus was to make it simple and effective. You could tell which upgrade candidate was 717 or 737 by how pale and sweaty their faces were that morning. Its true. We flew less efficient trips, but on longer legs to new system destinations.

I can see this happening at SWA when the MAX comes onboard. The "that's the way we've always done it crowd" could potentionally be told to STFU. It will be an opportunity to write a coherent set of manuals that do not spread the information to the four winds. Other operational considerations like the AC power scenario amongst others could be done away with. At SWA the old phrase is "fly it like a -200". AirTran would say "it's just like the -9 except..".

I'm grateful to work for stronger carrier. One of the better AT execs who did not come over called SWA the Rip Van Winkle airline. I would like to see SWA's spirit and customer service survive, but lose the -200 mentality and embrace modern technogy.