Airtran MEC voted no

[FLB717]

Gentlemen

I want you all to think of one thing first. This SLI will more than not happen. And when we are all moving metal from FNT to OAK we will be in the same places. Your screen names will be known and faces attached as that is just how life happens. Do we need to be bastards to one another? GK didn't call any of us to make this decision. We fly aircraft nothing more, our pay goes up and it can come down. Lets not get full of ourselves like all the airlines that don't exist or have gone to bankruptcy. It can happen to us all. All of us should get over ourselves and look for a fair integration. and it seems we can't so a neutral will decide. Good for us good or bad it doesn't float from this point on. Please stop my CEO can beat up your CEO or what ever yo have to chunk across the line. We very likely will have to meet in the crewroom or bar, know you words follow you. I for one don't want the little girl behavior on FI to be how the world judges us. Do you?

 

[scarlet]

GK OFFER, please SWAPA ask GK to present this package as it would be better coming from him, than SWAPA !! Do you think GK/and TEAM sat in his office and said " lets see if we take 1678 and then the first guy at AT and then 4 to 1, then 7 to 1, then heck just staple the last 1200 guys? We will scare them to death and make them mad ! I will present but I am not paying for you guys type, no signing bonus of 15k-20k that Delta guys received. YOU GUYS will GAIN 15%, which is never done in mergers. You really think it came from GK?

Yeah lets forward some of these threats on to GK, the AJC, all of the media and see how the local people in the ATL, MCO, BWI, MKE feel about SWA pilots talking like this?

GROW UP !! Funny DL/NW guys never acted like this. You are not superior to anyone. You were born naked and broke and you will die naked and broke !

Would be a great way to come into ATL and layoff over 8000 employees.

I am sure Newnan, Peachtree City, ATL, Marietta, Kennesaw, all will be supportive of a company that lays off their neighbors and the once AT employess lose their house and don't pay property taxes and the local city then layoffs police, firefighters, teachers.... IE . SAINT LOUIS, MO=FEDERAL LAW came because this is what happened in STL.

 

[Kharma Police]

GK OFFER, please SWAPA ask GK to present this package as it would be better coming from him, than SWAPA !! Do you think GK/and TEAM sat in his office and said " lets see if we take 1678 and then the first guy at AT and then 4 to 1, then 7 to 1, then heck just staple the last 1200 guys? We will scare them to death and make them mad ! I will present but I am not paying for you guys type, no signing bonus of 15k-20k that Delta guys received. YOU GUYS will GAIN 15%, which is never done in mergers. You really think it came from GK?

Yeah lets forward some of these threats on to GK, the AJC, all of the media and see how the local people in the ATL, MCO, BWI, MKE feel about SWA pilots talking like this?

GROW UP !! Funny DL/NW guys never acted like this. You are not superior to anyone. You were born naked and broke and you will die naked and broke !

Would be a great way to come into ATL and layoff over 8000 employees.

I am sure Newnan, Peachtree City, ATL, Marietta, Kennesaw, all will be supportive of a company that lays off their neighbors and the once AT employess lose their house and don't pay property taxes and the local city then layoffs police, firefighters, teachers.... IE . SAINT LOUIS, MO=FEDERAL LAW came because this is what happened in STL.

Apparently you missed the part of the MC presentation when they described how bad Gary Kelly's (not SWAPA's) initial offer was. Here's a hint, it involved a staple of epic proportions. You think he is going to go to bat for us?, think again.

 

[PapaWoody]

GK OFFER, please SWAPA ask GK to present this package as it would be better coming from him, than SWAPA !! Do you think GK/and TEAM sat in his office and said " lets see if we take 1678 and then the first guy at AT and then 4 to 1, then 7 to 1, then heck just staple the last 1200 guys? We will scare them to death and make them mad ! I will present but I am not paying for you guys type, no signing bonus of 15k-20k that Delta guys received. YOU GUYS will GAIN 15%, which is never done in mergers. You really think it came from GK?

Yeah lets forward some of these threats on to GK, the AJC, all of the media and see how the local people in the ATL, MCO, BWI, MKE feel about SWA pilots talking like this?

GROW UP !! Funny DL/NW guys never acted like this. You are not superior to anyone. You were born naked and broke and you will die naked and broke !

Would be a great way to come into ATL and layoff over 8000 employees.

I am sure Newnan, Peachtree City, ATL, Marietta, Kennesaw, all will be supportive of a company that lays off their neighbors and the once AT employess lose their house and don't pay property taxes and the local city then layoffs police, firefighters, teachers.... IE . SAINT LOUIS, MO=FEDERAL LAW came because this is what happened in STL.

Not saying any of this could or couldn't happen, but IF it does, I'm sure that there will be plenty of evidence to show that the cause of it was a bunch of guys and girls who were never willing to admit to the realities of the situation, i.e. all the disparity between the two careers, and who basically turned their collective backs on a $50,000-$70,000 per year pay raise. Who do you think the anger of your neighbors will be focused on if that were to happen? How dare those mean old Southwest people come in and offer a better job and more money at a much more stable company. Not saying it will, not saying it should, just sayin'.

Respectfully,
PapaWoody

 

[OldManPilot]

Lets take a look at this. I still think it would be in everybody's interest to get this worked out without an arbitrator deciding our future. Who is an arbitrator anyway? Its a person who has no stake in the outcome. It is a person that listens to both sides present their case and he takes notes on what HE/SHE thinks is important. Reread the last sentence again. It is what HE/SHE thinks is important, not what AT or SWAPA thinks are important. Then when both sides are done, He/She will refer to the notes of what they think are important and use those to come up with an integrated list. Do you see how both sides lose control of the situation. I am not sure about how you feel, but I would sure like to see this settled by us, the pilots that have a true stake in the outcome. I still hope cooler heads prevail and this will work out for all of us.

 

[Kharma Police]

Lets take a look at this. I still think it would be in everybody's interest to get this worked out without an arbitrator deciding our future. Who is an arbitrator anyway? Its a person who has no stake in the outcome. It is a person that listens to both sides present their case and he takes notes on what HE/SHE thinks is important. Reread the last sentence again. It is what HE/SHE thinks is important, not what AT or SWAPA thinks are important. Then when both sides are done, He/She will refer to the notes of what they think are important and use those to come up with an integrated list. Do you see how both sides lose control of the situation. I am not sure about how you feel, but I would sure like to see this settled by us, the pilots that have a true stake in the outcome. I still hope cooler heads prevail and this will work out for all of us.

Why the F would SWAPA waste their time when they know whatever, "agreement" they make with us can after a month of delay be unilaterally turned down by 7 individuals with their own agenda? I don't blame them for saying, see you mofos at Arby's!!!!!

 

[FlyinGuy]

Ok, I'll start....

What are you AT pilots willing to give up to start off the talks?


That is what I thought.....nothing....

Well the same is for the SWA side.....nothing....

The turnip has been bled dry. It is not like we were close and a few sweeteners would cause both sides to say great let's do this thing. Mediation will be a stepping stone to arby....that is the path in the process agreement.

 

[slaquer5]

Lets take a look at this. I still think it would be in everybody's interest to get this worked out without an arbitrator deciding our future. Who is an arbitrator anyway? Its a person who has no stake in the outcome. It is a person that listens to both sides present their case and he takes notes on what HE/SHE thinks is important. Reread the last sentence again. It is what HE/SHE thinks is important, not what AT or SWAPA thinks are important. Then when both sides are done, He/She will refer to the notes of what they think are important and use those to come up with an integrated list. Do you see how both sides lose control of the situation. I am not sure about how you feel, but I would sure like to see this settled by us, the pilots that have a true stake in the outcome. I still hope cooler heads prevail and this will work out for all of us.

That would be nice. I am sure after seeing AT jerk GK and co. around for two weeks , it is obvious AT has a hidden agenda.

In other words, why would SWAPA waste our time talking to AT when it would be better spent talking to the SWAPA legal team and trying to work with the company(as we always do )

AT never had any intention of putting this out for a vote. How would you feel if you where GK ?

 

[Max Powers]

I feel for the uncertainity your pilots and in turn your fellow employees are facing now. We were on van the other night and one of your fellow AAI FAs whispered to my wife the contempt she had for the pilots for their resistance. She obviously felt her future was jeopardized by the decisions of the pilots. My wife just listened quietly but she was amazed at the anger.

I wish you all well and we'll see what happens next. Back to lurking and hoping there are no regrets on the AAI side in 6-12 months.

What a load of crap Mr. Chase. We are closer to a SLI then the FA are by a wide margin. Have they even started negotiating? And when are they set for mediation/arbitration? Me thinks we are well ahead of them. So even if this supposed FA said this - what basis in fact does she have for you to think it has merit? I think SWAPA has to face the cold hard facts my seniority is not for sale! Starting my 6th year and they want to staple me. No thanks. Why are you so afraid of an impartial 3 panel arbitration? Why do you think it is your right to force a SLI upon me with no recourse? No doubt if GK is not a man of his word and refuses to follow our CBA, which he in writing promised to, it will suck as we will be looking for work, but at least I will have my integrity which is something you will not have.

 

[texman]

Thanks, I appreciate it... good luck to us ALL. It's tough living in uncertain times, hopefully we all stay respectful of each other through the process. We are all but one vote individually in two airlines that will have to figure it out.

To your 2nd point, I remember your last negotiation wanted Scope at nearly all costs, and the deal was voted down very narrowly. When GK came back, there was less money on the table, but you got the Scope you wanted. Is that a fair synopsis?

I see this as a similar deal. We may get less money (717 rates may be less, but they're only here for 6-10 more years and guys will come off them and onto the 737 as they're retired), and we may not get your pay rates until we complete training (a delay of up to 2 years for some of our most junior pilots), but if there's better seniority for us out of it? It may be worth it.

Only time will tell...

Uh, Lear we dictate your longivity pay, your vacation, and your sick bank.

 

[waveflyer]

AT says we're afraid of arbitration- not really.
We don't like the cultural effect of a long drawn out SLI process and it's effect on other work groups-

What's not being talked about is that your lawyers and MC agreed to this SLI, and then your MEC denied your members a vote on it.
So the militant 1% is here saying the SLI sucked and that's predictable enough- but your guys denied your WHOLE GROUP a chance to vote.
That's not good.

If this sucked as bad as you say, why keep it from your group to vote???

You guys voted 95%+ to strike- if this were a bad deal, could you not trust them to vote their conscience? Or were you scared their conscience would say 'vote yes'?

And now the ever militant are lashing out while most SWAers are thanking them. Your future is doubt, ours- won't change much...
You just left $50-$70k per year and $2M/pilot on the table... Maybe you'll make it up in the market.

For the good among you- I'm sorry your leaders denied you a vote- our management is not pleased with that.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I wonder what it will be like after this is all said and done. We have a process agreement, a transition agreement,
has anyone started the "how to get over this" agreement? Once we are all joined (assuming we all end up in the same list), are we going to have a bondfire burning ALPA flags or something that will make us all forget this happened? I for one hope someone figures out how to do this because there is going to be tons of emotions on both sides reguardless of how it ends up. Before today I thought we could all co-exist without much heartburn, but now...I am not so sure anymore. Culture??? Boy did that take on a whole new meaning after today.

 

[jonjuan]

What a load of crap Mr. Chase. We are closer to a SLI then the FA are by a wide margin. Have they even started negotiating? And when are they set for mediation/arbitration? Me thinks we are well ahead of them. So even if this supposed FA said this - what basis in fact does she have for you to think it has merit? I think SWAPA has to face the cold hard facts my seniority is not for sale! Starting my 6th year and they want to staple me. No thanks. Why are you so afraid of an impartial 3 panel arbitration? Why do you think it is your right to force a SLI upon me with no recourse? No doubt if GK is not a man of his word and refuses to follow our CBA, which he in writing promised to, it will suck as we will be looking for work, but at least I will have my integrity which is something you will not have.

Bingo-mouth breathers like Chase, GupWn, Wave, and Red come here spouting off that they were planning to vote NO because it was detrimental to them. Perfect. NOW-they are apparently pissed off that the other group voted no ahead of them. Unbelievably laughable. Welcome to the ALPA beat down.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Apparently you missed the part of the MC presentation when they described how bad Gary Kelly's (not SWAPA's) initial offer was. Here's a hint, it involved a staple of epic proportions. You think he is going to go to bat for us?, think again.

Yeah I think he will definately go to bat for you guys, but he won't do anything until ALPA is way the F%^& in another time zone out of here. Let's face it, even if he wanted to bat for you guys, ALPA will step in with technicalities and mandates. I have often said as long as ALPA is there this was going to go to arbitration. What does ALPA have to loose right now? You guys are gone no matter what. Not to be a conspiracy theorist but ALPA's backbone is DAL and they would want nothing more than turmoil at SWA. As long as ALPA is around this thing it will not be easy.

 

[redflyer65]

AirTran votes against negotiated integration; SWAPA continuing preparation for arbitration


Fellow pilots -

ALPA has, through this vote, expressed that $3 BIL collectively and more than $2 MIL, individually, is not good enough for their group. Arbitration is simply the next step in this lengthy process.



Jacob North
Communications Chair
[email protected]

My favorite part of the email. I knew things would get interesting, but Wow! Looking forward to seeing how Gary and Herb handle this.

RF