Airtran MEC voted no

[JT12345]

its over dude, Arby's is the next step. S I D E L E T T E R 8

Yeah man.... where is your love now? Thanks for the threat.

 

[Ticker]

Anyone got that number for truck driving school. I might need that.

...Truckmasters I think it was.....

 

[Cometman]

And if something happens to them, the webmaster will be releasing your IP to the FBI. Just ask one of our pilots when he commented on something here that AirTran considered a credable theat and via FBI investigation got the guy's name.

Please. He was not making a threat. Get real.

 

[Ty Webb]

JT12345,

This is said with all due respect JT so please don't take offense.

There will be no more negotiations, end of story. Only arbitration.

I respectfully recommend any thought process that leaves open any further "negotiations" between ALPA/SWAPA/SWA as a possibility only sets expectations for something that is not possible.

Arbitration. I don't fear it and certainly your MEC doesn't either since that is the path they have chosen. Your membership may look back and say this was a great move on the part of the MEC or they may wish for the original proposal at some point down the road. That ship has sailed.

As for the outcome from that arbitration, that will begin a brand new chapter and one that is not clear on the final outcome for your pilots. The SWA pilots will remain as SWA pilots, the same can not be said with 100% certainty for AAI pilots. If your leadership has convinced you and others of something else, then I will simply say that is unfortunate.

Passage of the AIP would've given you that 100% certainty even if viewed as a less than desired. Everyone I've spoken to on the SWA side feel it was far less than desired also FYI.

I wish you and your family all the best. Fly safe,

Respectfully,

Chase,

If your guys don't want to use the remaining 6 weeks of mediation, that's unfortunate; it seems to me that this is actually an opportunity for your FO's to get some of the gains they were looking for.

Our guys aren't looking to take anything away from the SWA guys, but we also need to have real, viable system seniority. Since half our guys will be displaced from ATL, those ATL protections did nothing for most of us, unfortunately.

Regards,

TW

 

[4day]

And if something happens to them, the webmaster will be releasing your IP to the FBI. Just ask one of our pilots when he commented on something here that AirTran considered a credable theat and via FBI investigation got the guy's name.

Fair enough. Changed it.

 

[waveflyer]

At least ALPA secured the extention of the collection of dues for a bit longer.

Exactly.
The MEC did have access to alpa lawyers. The question is, who were they really looking out for?

Find me a reason ALPA would want to facilitate this smoothly?
Why not, if one can influence, appeal to the cynical, attempt to poison the culture of a future competitor and collect north of $300,000/month doing it?

There's been no good answer to this--- ^^^

Now I understand many of you didn't like the seniority and thought you could get that kind of money AND seniority... But now - it's back to square one-

Do NOT think that SL9 is remotely what Swapa will be aiming for- it is not close to the best outcome swapa pilots could hope for, & I have serious doubts it would have come close to passing our side- everything is now back on the table - you guys forget, we already are swa pilots with our Swapa contract- you have nothing we want and you just negotiated as if GK wants you at all costs.

This is now the time for Swapa pilots to bow out.

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah man.... where is your love now? Thanks for the threat.

Its not a threat. You guys wanted arbys for dinner. I'm just letting you know about a little side dish on the menu we call Side Letter 8....

read it when you get a chance, some of our fellow aviators maybe living it.

 

[slaquer5]

JT12345,

This is said with all due respect JT so please don't take offense.

There will be no more negotiations, end of story. Only arbitration.

I respectfully recommend any thought process that leaves open any further "negotiations" between ALPA/SWAPA/SWA as a possibility only sets expectations for something that is not possible.

Arbitration. I don't fear it and certainly your MEC doesn't either since that is the path they have chosen. Your membership may look back and say this was a great move on the part of the MEC or they may wish for the original proposal at some point down the road. That ship has sailed.

As for the outcome from that arbitration, that will begin a brand new chapter and one that is not clear on the final outcome for your pilots. The SWA pilots will remain as SWA pilots, the same can not be said with 100% certainty for AAI pilots. If your leadership has convinced you and others of something else, then I will simply say that is unfortunate.

Passage of the AIP would've given you that 100% certainty even if viewed as a less than desired. Everyone I've spoken to on the SWA side feel it was far less than desired also FYI.

I wish you and your family all the best. Fly safe,

Respectfully,

I am not a big fan of chase, but that was very well written.
Spot on.

 

[canyonblue]

This list was lopsided and the SWA guys were salivating. Now it's time to wipe off the loogies and present your best case to the arbritrators who will determine what is fair.

You obviously didn't read the AIP, believe me chud, it wasn't the Southwest guys salivating. I'm glad all the freebee's Gary Kelly was handing out are history as well. Enjoy the outcome.

 

[canyonblue]

If your guys don't want to use the remaining 6 weeks of mediation, that's unfortunate;...............

TW

They already said the remaining 6 weeks would be best spent preparing our side in arbitration. Elvis has left the building.

 

[Sacha]

...Truckmasters I think it was.....

Better give that number to On Your Six. He is less than 300 from the bottom at Delta as the world continues to melt down financially. As I watch the financial news on the tube, I am reading posts from guys playing hardball with their careers and wonder if they are also as close to the bottom of the list as OYS. As the big picture of the world changes for the worse not just daily, but hourly, CEO's of all corporations especially airline CEO's like GK. and......DELTA'S.....CEO...will be taking a harder look at RISK. I don't care where you are on the list, we should all be holding our breath. Trying to "choke the Golden Goose" is just plain f'ing insane.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Great News for ALPA

AND AGAIN
More delay = more dues for ALPA, at $300K+ per month they let it last as long as possible and in the end they will leave the pilot group out in the cold to battle the elements as they always appear to do.

 

[Music]

With all do respect to everyone making threats, what purpose does it serve at this point? All of us at AT are well aware that it's a possibility and could happen (and may). How does it improve your position, especially since SWAPA says there will be no more negotiation until Arbitration. All I'm left with is that those that are making threats are either concerned with the outcome of arbitration, or you're just a 'school yard bully'.

Which is it?

 

[gt1900]

Its actually pretty easy to see who was getting the better end of this deal. Yes, some of the SWAPA guys didn't like it, but in the end, the BOD voted unanimously to pass this on to the pilots for a vote. The AAI MEC voted nearly unanimously to not pass this on to the pilots for ratification. I would of felt much better if at least a couple of the SWAPA BOD members thought this wasn't a good deal and voted no, and a couple more of the AAI MEC voted yes. As it is, it makes me realize even more just how bad this was for the AAI pilots. However, every single BOD member thought this was good for the SWAPA pilots, and thats why it passed unanimously. That alone should tell you something. Heck, even AAI's MEC had 1 guy who liked it. A real list won't need all the protections and fences for the AAI guys, and guaranteed upgrades for the SWA FO's. If that means renegotiating the rates on the 717, so be it. Pay rates are temporary, seniority is forever. If the economy tanks, and SWA management asks for pay cuts, the AAI pilots will take them just like the SWAPA pilots. Then what are the AAI pilots left with? The 30% loss in seniority for many of the AAI pilots is just to much for pay that can be gone tomorrow.

 

[GuppyWN]

If your guys don't want to use the remaining 6 weeks of mediation, that's unfortunate; it seems to me that this is actually an opportunity for your FO's to get some of the gains they were looking for.

Regards,

TW

Talk to ALPA. It's been almost a month since SWAPA voted yes to the agreement.

Don't displace your anger Ty.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

Talk to ALPA. It's been almost a month since SWAPA voted yes to the agreement.

Don't displace your anger Ty.

Gup

Not sure what you mean, Gup. I'm not angry, I'm being sincere. As I have been saying since the AIP came out, I think there are win/win changes that could be made, but it isn't up to me.

Regards,
TW

 

[ephull]

Thanks for posting the text of the email guys. As a former Tranny, I thought the deal was ridiculously biased toward AirTran. I was an emphatic NO voter. We'll see what happens now. Hopefully, our NC will go into arbitration and not try to give you guys the farm like they did with SL9.

A 32.5% loss of seniority and 650 FO' s stapled, and being hopelessly stuck on junior schedules and displaced continually to junior bases does not constitue "rediculously biased toward AirTran, my friend.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

SL 8 now gives all the control to SWA and Swapa on pay rates and rules on integration. Alpa and its pilots will just have to watch and see with zero control.

It looks that 500 grand will be in the SWA pilots pockets now instead of Airtrans. Just like it should have been to begin with.

This has been played well. There has been an agreement without mediation. The reason for Swapa to go into full arbitration gear is because there is nothing to mediate. They are not going to waste any time and will go into arbitration well prepared with the best arbitration attorneys in the business.

Let the fun begin!

 

[jonjuan]

I'm confused, you and others said they hated this deal and wanted this to go to arbitration. I'm guessing you guys were just too scared to stand up to Daddy and say, "no"?

Isn't it funny? They all said they were voting it down because it was unfair. OK-Now when the other side votes no, they get their panties in a bunch? Someone's not telling the truth again.

 

[JT12345]

You should have seen the anguish today on the LECs faces. This is so hard for everyone here.

I think the SWAPA guys were out partying Saturday night after this was hashed out joying it up. The vote went quick for obvious reasons.

You know it is apples and oranges. I can see from the SWA side how good things are for you guys and what concerns you have. With your perspectives this deal was bad for some of you. From the AT perspective and what a lot of guys have been through in this industry to be this disappointed is a totally different perspective. I can't help but say that what was upsetting you guys was kind of surprising to us. Your MEC knew better. They must get out... outside the bubble overthere once in a while.