Airtran MEC voted no

[WildcatFan]

Not many times you see guys with the guts to turn down a deal guaranteeing millions more in career earnings. Guaranteed, until now. They got balls, I'll give them that.

I guess now we will see who knows SWA managment better: ATNALPA or SWAPA.

I for one am relieved. I think the AT MEC counted their chickens before they were hatched. SWA came with the carrot, we will see if there is a stick. Our group is now unified and I suspect the company is indignant, though I can't really speak for them.

I do know this: SWAPA has never come close to putting GK in a box in ANY negotiation. Maybe AT has faith an arbitrator will be able to. Personally, I think its a hail mary with the risk of interception when they could have just took a knee and won the game.

 

[Fly-diver]

Thank you God for answering my prayers. For you good guys at AAI, I'm sorry. You didn't ask for this either, and you don't deserve what's gonna happen next.

 

[ATLplt]

As Gary would say -

It's ON!

So much for ever having a shot at a harmonious workplace.

Gup

Why is that? Be mad at the arbitrator's decision when the time comes, not the pilot groups. Now, a panel of neutrals look at the facts and make a decision. Neither side may like what comes out, but collectively we can blame the panel and move on with life.

 

[JumpJetter]

No we are gonna blame you

 

[Lear70]

Lear, good luck buddy, our BOD has emphatically stated the negotiations are over, no room to mediate if YOUR side already agreed in principle.

Now, a last minute deal, maybe, but consider this: Gary has never improved upon a negotiated deal, the results after a group has rejected his first offer have always been less, with every employee group confronted. Think about that.

Thanks, I appreciate it... good luck to us ALL. It's tough living in uncertain times, hopefully we all stay respectful of each other through the process. We are all but one vote individually in two airlines that will have to figure it out.

To your 2nd point, I remember your last negotiation wanted Scope at nearly all costs, and the deal was voted down very narrowly. When GK came back, there was less money on the table, but you got the Scope you wanted. Is that a fair synopsis?

I see this as a similar deal. We may get less money (717 rates may be less, but they're only here for 6-10 more years and guys will come off them and onto the 737 as they're retired), and we may not get your pay rates until we complete training (a delay of up to 2 years for some of our most junior pilots), but if there's better seniority for us out of it? It may be worth it.

Only time will tell...

 

[Kharma Police]

As Gary would say -

It's ON!

So much for ever having a shot at a harmonious workplace.

Gup

I'm confused, you and others said they hated this deal and wanted this to go to arbitration. I'm guessing you guys were just too scared to stand up to Daddy and say, "no"?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Thank you God for answering my prayers. For you good guys at AAI, I'm sorry. You didn't ask for this either, and you don't deserve what's gonna happen next.

Better keep your crow eating fork ready. It could happen to YOU.

 

[shagadelic]

Why is that? Be mad at the arbitrator's decision when the time comes, not the pilot groups. Now, a panel of neutrals look at the facts and make a decision. Neither side may like what comes out, but collectively we can blame the panel and move on with life.

Ya, that's gonna happen. :uzi:

 

[DougCorp-9]

The integration is happening. You can't take more than 8% of our ASM's. Gary is not going to sell us off.... blah blah blah. Every merger goes to arbitration, that is just the way it is. When it is all said and done we will live with it. Does SWAPA not plan on abiding by the process agreement and not accepting the arbitrators award? If not then how noble of them.

 

[madjack]

Neither side may like what comes out, but collectively we can blame the panel and move on with life.

I hope so, but Mr Kelly's plans have been derailed by ALPA/AAI. I suppose the logic is that AAI pilots may get more $$ prearby or better seniority at arby...but Mr Kelly still has the problem of supporting his newest employees while maintaining the loyalty of his existing pilots...if he let's an arbitrator decide the fate and the results of the award are less than the AIP, he must choose who to support...you have made his job harder, and I am glad that your side did it vs ours...

 

[N1atEcon]

Thank you ALPA! Now lets tie this up in court for years after arbitration. I want you guys to really show GK who's the boss.

P.S. I enjoyed flying that new (ex AT) 700 the other day I wish we had those comm panels in all of our AC.

 

[ATLplt]

No we are gonna blame you

Whatever makes you happy, Chief. I'll give you back one of these when you do.

 

[bravodude]

I'm confused, you and others said they hated this deal and wanted this to go to arbitration. I'm guessing you guys were just too scared to stand up to Daddy and say, "no"?

Now its time to see if GK has some blls.

 

[chase]

Lear,

We've talked many times so no BS from me. If anyone on your MEC or ALPA has promoted the concept there is "still room/time for further negotiations", i.e. mediation of some sort...they have sold you a bill of goods. Don't promote that anywhere or to anyone else; to do so would be a failure to comprehend those on the other side of the table.

that doesn't mean the world is coming to an end but negotiations have, so move on to thinking about arbitration.

Your team and our team will make their sides known and the list will come out eventually, later than originally desired but come out.

After that, the future is still unknown but GK will control SWA's future and AAI's since your MEC has chosen to not give the pilots of AAI the opportunity to choose it. No fear mongering but simply recognizing the unforeseen challenges your pilots have chosen to face.

I feel for the uncertainity your pilots and in turn your fellow employees are facing now. We were on van the other night and one of your fellow AAI FAs whispered to my wife the contempt she had for the pilots for their resistance. She obviously felt her future was jeopardized by the decisions of the pilots. My wife just listened quietly but she was amazed at the anger.

I wish you all well and we'll see what happens next. Back to lurking and hoping there are no regrets on the AAI side in 6-12 months.

 

[Lear70]

I don't see how wanting GK to tank a multi-billion dollar deal or tie it up in litigation for a decade a la UAir/AWA is helping anything.

Yes, it's muddied the waters. No need for the threats to start back up again. We've heard them, we've seen them, our MEC is leading us forward anyway. They obviously, therefore, don't work, so why keep alienating everyone?

Honest question... why?

 

[Whaler]

Hallelujah! As a SWA new hire I was praying for this as well.

 

[Fly4$]

Ok, I know SLI negotians can evoke some pretty stark emotions, but the highschool student attitudes of some on here is a disgrace to the profession. Enough with the threats and innuendo already. Grow up!

 

[runner46]

at mec vote

its a fact 7-1 no vote,here comes abbreviated mediation

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

No room for negotiations?
Sweet! Now go tell that to the arbitrators, they gonna LUV you for not being willing to negotiate.
Allow me to bust your little bubble. Process Agreement states that arbitrator will set date for list implementations. Signed by your boss.
Chill, hot heads. You have 29 years to hate me. Pace yourself.

 

[chase]

I don't see how wanting GK to tank a multi-billion dollar deal or tie it up in litigation for a decade a la UAir/AWA is helping anything.

Yes, it's muddied the waters. No need for the threats to start back up again. We've heard them, we've seen them, our MEC is leading us forward anyway. They obviously, therefore, don't work, so why keep alienating everyone?

Honest question... why?

I'll ask the question (no need to reply as I know the answer) but why did the MEC "tank" the offer? Because they felt it wasn't fair.

Why couldn't GK choose the same justification for an arbitrated list that does more damage to SWA's culture? It isn't just about the pilots, it is about the FAs, mechanics and other unionized employee groups @ SWA and AAI.

SWA will continue the path of being profitable, maybe less so but nonetheless, profitable without AAI.

Some believe he won't take the approach of Doug Parker who stayed on the sidelines and didn't take the side of his own pilots @ AW. That decision has made all parties hate what use to be a well respected leader of a major carrier.

One could theorize that GK/SWA will be fully engaged during the arbitration side of the house on the side of SWAPA and yet we don't know how the list will look nor what GK's reactions will be. SWA will be VERY vested in the outcome and I suspect will consult very closely with the SWAPA leadership and in turn the membership.

Will he impliment or it not? I wouldn't bet my mortgage payments on it but obviously your MEC has chosen to bet yours. I'm not making a prediction other than the future is full of unknown; for those who say it can't happen that way, they are wrong, to say it will is also wrong...one simply doesn't know.

The arbitrators have your future in their hand but it will be passed off to GK at some point. He will have to weigh the choices at that point and the options are not a foregone conclusion.

I'm not upset but merely sad it didn't go forward but I'm firmly behind SWAPA and GK on the paths they choose. I will retire a SWA pilot and had hped you would too along with 1600 others. Maybe it will still workout and if so, I will welcome you all over and buy the rounds to celebrate.

cheers