Airtran MEC Update

[PSL]

In my short 25 years in this industry I have not seen one merger where two pilot groups saw themselves as similar.

It is human nature, and certainly justified by the seniority system itself, to advocate in earnest for your side.

I wish I had an answer relative to SLI(s), but I think the words 'fair and equitable' have little effective and useful guidance attached to them.

Aircraft deliveries can be changed with a call from the CEO to the supplier, just as payrates and working conditions can be changed via a force majeur claim substantiated to the court.

In the end, if the SWA-AAI deal goes to an arbitrator, it will be educational to read the justification supporting the decision.

Until then ... the best thing we can do is move our pax safely, comfortably and on time.

 

[Kharma Police]

Beautiful- this is what happens when the industry lacks a gold standard integrating pilot groups.
Southwest pilots control this merger- get used to it Trannies. You better play nice in the sandbox because the alternative is unemployment. Southwest has the longevitiy, the routes, the senior pilots and the numbers to drive the train. Trannies- you are along for the ride. Look what happened to Northwest and there isn't a thing they could do about it because they were the minority.
My alternative erases all the BS- DOH is the gold standard. No need for stupid toothless congresional regulations about arbitrations to make the politicians feel good- DOH across the board and problem solved. We would all be better off!

The industry, "gold standard" is to accept the arbitrator's decision.

 

[bladeusa]

No Kidding!!!!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Beautiful- this is what happens when the industry lacks a gold standard integrating pilot groups.
Southwest pilots control this merger- get used to it Trannies. You better play nice in the sandbox because the alternative is unemployment. Southwest has the longevitiy, the routes, the senior pilots and the numbers to drive the train. Trannies- you are along for the ride. Look what happened to Northwest and there isn't a thing they could do about it because they were the minority.
My alternative erases all the BS- DOH is the gold standard. No need for stupid toothless congresional regulations about arbitrations to make the politicians feel good- DOH across the board and problem solved. We would all be better off!

And you consider yourself better off? Compared to who?
You work for 1/2 of a dysfunctional airline, making less than what a Republic pilots makes. Your group has zero respect in the industry, and you are the laughing stock of aviation.
Now run along and tell the mods that I wrote this, run along now.:bawling::bawling::bawling:

And make sure and pack MCDU a nice lunch for school, and you dress warmly, I hear it's going to be cold out east today. You'll need a heavy jacket for the 9 walk arounds you'll do.:laugh:

 

[elcid]

DOH only works if you have two similar carriers merging. Not what I would call a gold standard.

Exactly. What if SWA, (or Airtran for that matter) bought Chautauqua for example. Should we just fold everyone in by date of hire? Guys with 1000 hours of RJ time and a couple of thousand total time going ahead of SWA guys who worked their way up to get to their dream job? There is no simple gold standard. Not a fair and equatable one anyway. An arbitrator will ultimately figure this out for us in all likelihood. I'm fine with that. If I was at Airtran, maybe not so much. With talk of sick outs, work actions, Airtran guys admitting to how "militant" a group they are, etc., I wouldn't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole if I was Gary. I'd find an excuse to back out, oil prices, blame the pilots, whatever. There are other deals out there, or just good old fashioned organic growth and competition. It's a harder way to grow in the short run, but beats dying of cancer in the long run. No offense to the silent majority of good dudes over at Airtran (I can only hope), but if the guys on this forum are any representation of what is coming our way, we don't want or need this any more than a hole in our collective heads. Run away SWA, run like the wind!

 

[GearUpJammer]

Excellent post PSL,my exact philosophy.Don't worry Elcid,noone at AAI wants to burn the SWA house down.Don't let these forums formulate your opinion of the entire group.

 

[Roomwithaview]

The industry, "gold standard" is to accept the arbitrator's decision.

That's funny! You been paying attention to USAir/AWA? Someone should tell USAPA!

 

[elcid]

Excellent post PSL,my exact philosophy.Don't worry Elcid,noone at AAI wants to burn the SWA house down.Don't let these forums formulate your opinion of the entire group.

Glad to hear it GearUp. Where are the rest of your like minded brothers? I look forward to drinking beers with you guys on the overnights if this thing ever works out. Good luck.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

We are here. Just quietly watching.

 

[CaptSeth]

When I read this thread, I just can't stop giggling like a little schoolgirl.

 

[RLAblows]

Glad to hear it GearUp. Where are the rest of your like minded brothers? I look forward to drinking beers with you guys on the overnights if this thing ever works out. Good luck.

I think you'll find that almost all AirTran pilots are behind this deal, and looking forward to the future.

 

[sfomarc]

Redflyer...the majority of your posts appear to be ones of condescension.

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is. You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot.

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

I agree with everything you said. I wish that you could convince Gary Kelly to back away from this deal. We could grow and you could remain a captain at Airtran.

 

[redflyer65]

Redflyer...the majority of your posts appear to be ones of condescension.

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is. You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot.

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

Don,

I didn't mean to insuate that Airtran was not a major airline, just a smaller one. Basically 5900 Southwest pilots to around 1700 at Airtran. And Southwest pilots aren't any better than anyone else. They have been very successful at working with the company to get an awesome contract with great benifits.

Each group of FO's at both companies strives to make Captain pay, no suprise there. The differences of QOL and pay from each contract makes the career expectations a little different at each carrier. I'm sure SWAPA and ALPA have done the math. I'm not going to beat that dead horse. I believe the arbitor will use the contracts on each property on Sept. 27th to make those comparisons.

It would be similiar to SWAPA passing a new contract with a 30 percent payraise today and trying to use those numbers for arbitration. I'm really glad your pilot group passed that new contract with the bonuses. If anyone in this industry deserved them it was you guys!

I hope ALPA doesn't burn the house down over there in the meantime.

Cheers.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Don

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is.

Actually, Yahoo considers us both regionals. Which I think is funny. Calling yourself a "Major" does not make you a bigger carrier than Southwest. You are still a "smaller" carrier. Sorry those facts are hurting your feelings. And, your case.

You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot

.

I can't speak to the latter but I have been at three other airlines. I have seen bits and pieces of your contract and I am much more content with ours. However, happiness is a subjective thing and can be weighed in many different ways. I can tell you this. No Southwest pilot has left Southwest to go to Airtran. No Southwest guys have had applications on file at AAI. Can you say the same for Airtran guys. Is that not indicative of the collective level of happiness at AAI vs WN?

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

And, the upgrades at Colgan are even faster than that. Does that mean that it's a better place to be?

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

A very general statement but true and it could be said that way for all pilots. If Airtran stands alone how will that compare side by side to the the career expectations of the Southwest pilot? Upgrade is not everything. If it was we'd all be working for whoever offers the quickest upgrade.

 

[ATLplt]

They have been very successful at working with the company to get an awesome contract with great benifits.

Yes Red, but it's much easier to be successful when your management actually TRIES to be fair at the table. That's part of your corporate culture. You're lucky to have those people in charge and making decisions at your airline.

When you have an airline management that's top heavy with Eastern, NWA, and USAir (anti-labor) retreads it's almost impossible without threatening to close the doors. Even then, they still spit in your face. Things are forced to become hostle, unfortunately.